View Poll Results: Pick one
Manley 2618 with 22 cc dish. 8.9:1 C/R
9
4.29%
New Mahle Boost pistons with 26cc dish. 8.7:1 C/R
44
20.95%
Wiesco Turbo pistons with 32cc dish. 8.4:1 C/R
59
28.10%
Dimond pistons wiith 20cc dish. 9.0:1 C/R
98
46.67%
Voters: 210. You may not vote on this poll
Which piston? Pick one
10-12-2006, 05:11 PM
#1
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Which piston? Pick one The setup is going to be a D-1SC running 15-17psi + 50-100 shot of Nitrous. Could upgrade to F1-R later on for extra boost (17-19psi). The heads will be AFR 225's with 72cc chamber.
All the short blocks are around the same price give or take $100 and going to have these parts in common:
LQ9 iron Block
4.00 Eagle Crank
Hell fire rings
Callies rods
ARP rod bolts
Clevite mains
Now the difference will be in the pistons because every engine builder prefer one over the other. Since a thread started by me yesterday didn't get much response because i guess vendor names were compared to each other... This time i will just keep it as options instead of mentioning vendor names. I don't want to start anything here... just opinions from experince.
All pistons are made with lowered rings location to handle the extra boost.
Option 1: Manley 2618 with 22 cc dish. 8.9:1 C/R
Option 2: New Mahle Boost pistons with 26cc dish. 8.7:1 C/R
Option 3: Wiesco Turbo pistons with 32cc dish. 8.4:1 C/R
Option 4: Dimond pistons wiith 20cc dish. 9.0:1 C/R
All the short blocks are around the same price give or take $100 and going to have these parts in common:
LQ9 iron Block
4.00 Eagle Crank
Hell fire rings
Callies rods
ARP rod bolts
Clevite mains
Now the difference will be in the pistons because every engine builder prefer one over the other. Since a thread started by me yesterday didn't get much response because i guess vendor names were compared to each other... This time i will just keep it as options instead of mentioning vendor names. I don't want to start anything here... just opinions from experince.
All pistons are made with lowered rings location to handle the extra boost.
Option 1: Manley 2618 with 22 cc dish. 8.9:1 C/R
Option 2: New Mahle Boost pistons with 26cc dish. 8.7:1 C/R
Option 3: Wiesco Turbo pistons with 32cc dish. 8.4:1 C/R
Option 4: Dimond pistons wiith 20cc dish. 9.0:1 C/R
10-12-2006, 10:55 PM
#2
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No one running any of these pistons? You guys like them or not.... Talk or vote damn it.
Im leaning towards the Wiesco pistons because it will give me the option of running a larger blower with more boost on pump gas with alky in the future.
Im leaning towards the Wiesco pistons because it will give me the option of running a larger blower with more boost on pump gas with alky in the future.
10-13-2006, 02:17 PM
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I did more research and found out that Wiesco and Manley uses the same 2618 forged. Mahle uses 4032. Im not sure what Dimond pistons uses for their alloy.
Anyways here is an article i found comparing the two materials
"Forged pistons are typically made from one of two alloys: SAE 4032 or SAE 2618. The 4032 alloy is most often used for pistons in street engines, drag engines, naturally aspirated engines and many sportsman class circle track engines. The 4032 alloy contains more silicon (11 to 13.5 percent) than 2618 (less than 0.25 percent), which reduces thermal expansion, improves lubricity and scuff resistance. The 2618 alloy, by comparison, is a low silicon alloy so it has a higher coefficient of thermal expansion and much more tendency to scuff. But it is about a 10-15 percent stronger material and is typically the alloy of choice for serious racing, marine engines, and boosted and bottle-fed engines that produce a lot of heat in the combustion chamber. However, these pistons are not to be used for street or mild racing applications where they won't be replaced routinely."
Wow so a 2618 has to be replaced routinely? Anyone can confirm this?
Anyways here is an article i found comparing the two materials
"Forged pistons are typically made from one of two alloys: SAE 4032 or SAE 2618. The 4032 alloy is most often used for pistons in street engines, drag engines, naturally aspirated engines and many sportsman class circle track engines. The 4032 alloy contains more silicon (11 to 13.5 percent) than 2618 (less than 0.25 percent), which reduces thermal expansion, improves lubricity and scuff resistance. The 2618 alloy, by comparison, is a low silicon alloy so it has a higher coefficient of thermal expansion and much more tendency to scuff. But it is about a 10-15 percent stronger material and is typically the alloy of choice for serious racing, marine engines, and boosted and bottle-fed engines that produce a lot of heat in the combustion chamber. However, these pistons are not to be used for street or mild racing applications where they won't be replaced routinely."
Wow so a 2618 has to be replaced routinely? Anyone can confirm this?
10-13-2006, 03:29 PM
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2618 should be replaced at regular intervals. Some people have made them live longer with coatings in the ring land area to slow the wear process. The scuffing also can be controlled with coatings. The 2618 material is the choice for racing builds.
I have done some testing with both the 2618 and 4032 to attempt to give first hand info on durability. My daily driven pick-up is a LS based 6.0 with turbocharger. It will produce around 800-900hp depending on boost. Right now (winter) I run 15 psi with a little methanol injection and a factory stock torque converter. In the summer I run a 3500 stall and 17-18 psi daily. It has 51,000 miles on it now with a 4032 Mahle piston made for boost. The leak down is still within 1 percent of what it was new, and oil consumption has not changed since new(1 quart in 1000-1200 miles).
Kurt
I have done some testing with both the 2618 and 4032 to attempt to give first hand info on durability. My daily driven pick-up is a LS based 6.0 with turbocharger. It will produce around 800-900hp depending on boost. Right now (winter) I run 15 psi with a little methanol injection and a factory stock torque converter. In the summer I run a 3500 stall and 17-18 psi daily. It has 51,000 miles on it now with a 4032 Mahle piston made for boost. The leak down is still within 1 percent of what it was new, and oil consumption has not changed since new(1 quart in 1000-1200 miles).
Kurt
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10-13-2006, 03:33 PM
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10-13-2006, 11:54 PM
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Talk about some interseting reading. So the better bet seems to be the 4032 forge for those of us not running tremendous boost levels and still running say under 650rwhp and still cruising?
10-13-2006, 11:58 PM
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From reading alot about the two different alloys the 2618 and the 4032 I noticed that drag racing and high HP applications (over 700HP) use 2618. The 4032 is better suited for road course racing application because it has more silicon in it which tends to minimize piston expansion and heat. The 4032 is also lighter than the 2618 due to the extra silicon in it which makes it a good piston for N/A setups. Anyways for what I'm doing I think the 2618 is the better choice of the two. I guess it all comes down to who is building the engine and how they setup the piston wall clearance for the 2618 pistons based on boost demands.
10-14-2006, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by mikep2002
Talk about some interseting reading. So the better bet seems to be the 4032 forge for those of us not running tremendous boost levels and still running say under 650rwhp and still cruising?
650rwhp is over the limit of the 4032 based on what i saw. I think W2W has pushed the 4032 over that, but i didn't find anyone else doing the same. I can see using the 4032 on a maxed out maggie or P-1SC with 346-364 engine setup, but thats about it. I say magnacharger and P-1SC because they tend to max out under 600rwhp no matter what u do with them. I know some P-1SC made slightly over 600rwhp, but that isnt the norm.
10-14-2006, 07:58 PM
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Well, the whole 2618's needing to be replaced at regular intervals has me worried.. I didn't know that... And I didn't know the supposed power limit for 4032's were only 600rwhp
10-14-2006, 08:42 PM
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We have seen them start to lose performance as the ring grooves wear. This seems to start about 5-7000 miles in. It would be interesting to put them in a engine and inspect every 2500 miles to see how long they last.
It would be nearly impossible to limit by rwhp because drivetrain changes the output at the wheels. If you have a reasonable tune in the car, I would not be scared at 1000hp flywheel with boost on 4032. If you have high nitrous loads then 2618 would be for you.
Kurt
It would be nearly impossible to limit by rwhp because drivetrain changes the output at the wheels. If you have a reasonable tune in the car, I would not be scared at 1000hp flywheel with boost on 4032. If you have high nitrous loads then 2618 would be for you.
Kurt