dart pro 1 turbo set up
Originally Posted by bumpin_records
4.030
Link to PRC heads:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-internal-engine/616405-precision-race-components-ported-6-2l-cylinder-heads-almost-ready.html
i think its fair to say that intake temperature can be controlled reguardless of this difference in boost pressure.
that being said, and now the same MASS of air gets into the cylinder at from 20psi as it would 15psi through big heads. now the valves are closed and then whats happens to make it more violent?
the 20psi engine will see more backpressure from the turbo(s), if you have a good exhaust and proper turbo set up the change would also be minimal increase. resulting in a minimal drop in efficiency.. easily overshadowed by a fraction of the boost you added.
that being said, and now the same MASS of air gets into the cylinder at from 20psi as it would 15psi through big heads. now the valves are closed and then whats happens to make it more violent?
the 20psi engine will see more backpressure from the turbo(s), if you have a good exhaust and proper turbo set up the change would also be minimal increase. resulting in a minimal drop in efficiency.. easily overshadowed by a fraction of the boost you added.
Originally Posted by MIGHTYMOUSE
i think its fair to say that intake temperature can be controlled reguardless of this difference in boost pressure.
that being said, and now the same MASS of air gets into the cylinder at from 20psi as it would 15psi through big heads. now the valves are closed and then whats happens to make it more violent?
the 20psi engine will see more backpressure from the turbo(s), if you have a good exhaust and proper turbo set up the change would also be minimal increase. resulting in a minimal drop in efficiency.. easily overshadowed by a fraction of the boost you added.
that being said, and now the same MASS of air gets into the cylinder at from 20psi as it would 15psi through big heads. now the valves are closed and then whats happens to make it more violent?
the 20psi engine will see more backpressure from the turbo(s), if you have a good exhaust and proper turbo set up the change would also be minimal increase. resulting in a minimal drop in efficiency.. easily overshadowed by a fraction of the boost you added.
mouse i can see your point, your saying as long as you cool down the intake charge leaving the turbo due to higher boost you can make the same amout of power with less exspencive heads right? Meaning bigger intercooler and other means. I was just thinking if i keep the boost down by running better heads i can cool the intake charge down even more with a bigger intercooler meaning when i do turn the boost up i will make even more hp. Like my lq9 heads i have right now i can get em ported and run some very good numbers but then theres the casting being thicker of a aftermarket head thats insurance you think? well let me check out the link for intakes this was very intersting indeed thanks guys , mouse ,john and alll
To some of Kurt's points... Sure you can go big cubes and run less boost, a 427ci with some monster heads (edit) will hit your power goals with a lot less boost than say my stock cube low compression 348ci. That's really up to you.
For 1000rwhp I would not play with any stock head castings.
For 1000rwhp I would not play with any stock head castings.
Originally Posted by 1CAMWNDR
Then I'd go with the L92 heads form PRC for $1,500 and an L76 intake with a 90mm TB.
Link to PRC heads:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=616405
Link to PRC heads:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=616405
enough time has not been put into testing those heads to try my luck with them i just read the whole thread and they havent proven them heads yet but they sound nice so far
yes thats what i'm saying, exept
what you say here means you now eventually want more than 1000, which is a change from your original post. this would get into the realm of a stronger head for sure... still not necessarily one that flows more.
Originally Posted by bumpin_records
I was just thinking if i keep the boost down by running better heads i can cool the intake charge down even more with a bigger intercooler meaning when i do turn the boost up i will make even more hp.
Originally Posted by MIGHTYMOUSE
yes thats what i'm saying, exept
what you say here means you now eventually want more than 1000, which is a change from your original post. this would get into the realm of a stronger head for sure... still not necessarily one that flows more.
what you say here means you now eventually want more than 1000, which is a change from your original post. this would get into the realm of a stronger head for sure... still not necessarily one that flows more.
Originally Posted by 1CAMWNDR
Then I'd go with the L92 heads form PRC for $1,500 and an L76 intake with a 90mm TB.
Link to PRC heads:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=616405
Link to PRC heads:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=616405
That being said, I plan to run a ported set of these on a stock LS2 motor at about the 650-700rwhp level and see what happens. Would I try it at 1000? Nope.
I agree with John, I would rather go with an aftermarket head when trying to make 1000rwhp. I already had the ported stock castings when the motor was being built. In addition, the stockers on my motor have had the decks welded and a lot of strengthening done. When the motor goes for the solid roller conversion in a couple of months I am going to switch to a set of the All Pro W heads.
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Originally Posted by motorbuilt
Hmmmmm guys with stock 6.0 castings have went into the bottom 8's with no problems. Where does your thin deck l92 head concerns show up as really being a problem on a 1000rwhp combo?
Originally Posted by motorbuilt
Hmmmmm guys with stock 6.0 castings have went into the bottom 8's with no problems. Where does your thin deck l92 head concerns show up as really being a problem on a 1000rwhp combo?
I see were all of you guys are coming from. Other then head strength, reliablity and heads lifting. They way i look at it is. a more restrictive head will need more boost to make the power goals. If the intercooler is efficiant enough. Depending on where you are on the compressor map and your setup. You might make more power with the more restrictive head due to the higher boost putting you into a higher efficiency range of the turbo..
quick example: 3.0L supras make 1500rwhp with GT47 88mm turbo's
The same turbo on a big cubic inch LS1's aren't coming close to those power levels. They are stuck in the 1200rwhp range.
The 3.0L are seeing 60psi (boost) while the LS1's are only seeing 30psi (boost) before it runs out of air.
so i agree with mightymouse
just my .02
quick example: 3.0L supras make 1500rwhp with GT47 88mm turbo's
The same turbo on a big cubic inch LS1's aren't coming close to those power levels. They are stuck in the 1200rwhp range.
The 3.0L are seeing 60psi (boost) while the LS1's are only seeing 30psi (boost) before it runs out of air.
so i agree with mightymouse
just my .02
Your comparing hp on two different size engines with the same air moving device. Make the LS 3.0l and run the rpm up, then you will see higher hp numbers. HP is math and rpm increases hp. If you compare tq curves of those two engines the LS will be better.
If your system has a flow problem that requires additional boost to overcome, then you build more heat in the intake and ex. The better intercooler could fix the intake, but how do we cool the ex? Maybe sacrifice power and run rich?
Kurt
If your system has a flow problem that requires additional boost to overcome, then you build more heat in the intake and ex. The better intercooler could fix the intake, but how do we cool the ex? Maybe sacrifice power and run rich?
Kurt
Originally Posted by KissMySSo1
I see were all of you guys are coming from. Other then head strength, reliablity and heads lifting. They way i look at it is. a more restrictive head will need more boost to make the power goals. If the intercooler is efficiant enough. Depending on where you are on the compressor map and your setup. You might make more power with the more restrictive head due to the higher boost putting you into a higher efficiency range of the turbo..
quick example: 3.0L supras make 1500rwhp with GT47 88mm turbo's
The same turbo on a big cubic inch LS1's aren't coming close to those power levels. They are stuck in the 1200rwhp range.
The 3.0L are seeing 60psi (boost) while the LS1's are only seeing 30psi (boost) before it runs out of air.
so i agree with mightymouse
just my .02
quick example: 3.0L supras make 1500rwhp with GT47 88mm turbo's
The same turbo on a big cubic inch LS1's aren't coming close to those power levels. They are stuck in the 1200rwhp range.
The 3.0L are seeing 60psi (boost) while the LS1's are only seeing 30psi (boost) before it runs out of air.
so i agree with mightymouse
just my .02
aw come on i wouldnt consider any lsx cylinder head a problem to overcome, thats like considering a 6.0l a problem cus you could buy a 7.0l
more exhaust heat = more spoolz yo!
I dont have a comeback for the exhaust heat other than keep an eye on your pressure ratio and egt and design a minimal backpressure system. I have melted a lot of parts
but i think we both agree they are from an octane defficiency.
more exhaust heat = more spoolz yo!
I dont have a comeback for the exhaust heat other than keep an eye on your pressure ratio and egt and design a minimal backpressure system. I have melted a lot of parts
but i think we both agree they are from an octane defficiency. 
on Supra vs LS1....here is my amatuer thinking. The supra needs to use most of its exhaust to spool that big turbo and to keep it turning. The bigger ls1 uses half its exhaust to spin the turbo and has to get rid of the rest. I am thinking the ls1 runs out of breath sooner (hp wise) trying to get rid of that exhaust. Bigger turbo still and eventually the ls1 will come into its range and the supra wont have enuff exhaust to spin the big turbo. Just my line of thinking and the most/half exhaust figures are just for conversation..not actual obviously. This is obviously not all of what is going on but I do think that its part of the equation at some point. Please dont crucify me for my generalizations
Not sure where the value is comparing Supras to LS1's. Supras running big turbos use nitrous to spool up the turbos.
Look at it this way. A given turbo will make 1000hp at the crank. But that same turbo will work more efficiently with one engine vs. another... But also work differently with different size engines... But also work differently with different flowing heads... Will work differently with different cam shafts.
If you are specifically focused on making 1000rwhp with a single, with a 370ci engine, some turbo companies will immediately focus you on a 91/91.5 mm turbo. Some guys might try to put you in a 94mm but I bet the PTE guys would start with a 91mm turbo.
Look at it this way. A given turbo will make 1000hp at the crank. But that same turbo will work more efficiently with one engine vs. another... But also work differently with different size engines... But also work differently with different flowing heads... Will work differently with different cam shafts.
If you are specifically focused on making 1000rwhp with a single, with a 370ci engine, some turbo companies will immediately focus you on a 91/91.5 mm turbo. Some guys might try to put you in a 94mm but I bet the PTE guys would start with a 91mm turbo.
Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
Not sure where the value is comparing Supras to LS1's. Supras running big turbos use nitrous to spool up the turbos.
Look at it this way. A given turbo will make 1000hp at the crank. But that same turbo will work more efficiently with one engine vs. another... But also work differently with different size engines... But also work differently with different flowing heads... Will work differently with different cam shafts.
If you are specifically focused on making 1000rwhp with a single, with a 370ci engine, some turbo companies will immediately focus you on a 91/91.5 mm turbo. Some guys might try to put you in a 94mm but I bet the PTE guys would start with a 91mm turbo.
Look at it this way. A given turbo will make 1000hp at the crank. But that same turbo will work more efficiently with one engine vs. another... But also work differently with different size engines... But also work differently with different flowing heads... Will work differently with different cam shafts.
If you are specifically focused on making 1000rwhp with a single, with a 370ci engine, some turbo companies will immediately focus you on a 91/91.5 mm turbo. Some guys might try to put you in a 94mm but I bet the PTE guys would start with a 91mm turbo.
Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
Not sure where the value is comparing Supras to LS1's. Supras running big turbos use nitrous to spool up the turbos.
Look at it this way. A given turbo will make 1000hp at the crank. But that same turbo will work more efficiently with one engine vs. another... But also work differently with different size engines... But also work differently with different flowing heads... Will work differently with different cam shafts.
If you are specifically focused on making 1000rwhp with a single, with a 370ci engine, some turbo companies will immediately focus you on a 91/91.5 mm turbo. Some guys might try to put you in a 94mm but I bet the PTE guys would start with a 91mm turbo.
Look at it this way. A given turbo will make 1000hp at the crank. But that same turbo will work more efficiently with one engine vs. another... But also work differently with different size engines... But also work differently with different flowing heads... Will work differently with different cam shafts.
If you are specifically focused on making 1000rwhp with a single, with a 370ci engine, some turbo companies will immediately focus you on a 91/91.5 mm turbo. Some guys might try to put you in a 94mm but I bet the PTE guys would start with a 91mm turbo.
well john i feel you cause im planning on going with a pt 91.5 well im about to do a search on the intakes ls6 vs carb style lol. there was a lot of good imput on here. Great disscusion
Originally Posted by bumpin_records
well john i feel you cause im planning on going with a pt 91.5 well im about to do a search on the intakes ls6 vs carb style lol. there was a lot of good imput on here. Great disscusion
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/605899-reason-switching-carb-intake.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/610806-what-intake-manifold.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/608508-victor-jr-efi-intake-346-d1-worth.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/596738-gmpp-intake.html
Originally Posted by MIGHTYMOUSE
i think its fair to say that intake temperature can be controlled reguardless of this difference in boost pressure.
that being said, and now the same MASS of air gets into the cylinder at from 20psi as it would 15psi through big heads. now the valves are closed and then whats happens to make it more violent?
the 20psi engine will see more backpressure from the turbo(s), if you have a good exhaust and proper turbo set up the change would also be minimal increase. resulting in a minimal drop in efficiency.. easily overshadowed by a fraction of the boost you added.
that being said, and now the same MASS of air gets into the cylinder at from 20psi as it would 15psi through big heads. now the valves are closed and then whats happens to make it more violent?
the 20psi engine will see more backpressure from the turbo(s), if you have a good exhaust and proper turbo set up the change would also be minimal increase. resulting in a minimal drop in efficiency.. easily overshadowed by a fraction of the boost you added.
i dont understand how the 20psi combo sees more backpressure since it has to use more of the exhaust energy to spin the turbo........please someone try to explain this to me cause i dont understand that.