Less Maintenance -- FI vs. NA + Spray
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Launching!
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From: S. JerZ
Less Maintenance -- FI vs. NA + Spray Just a question I have been thinking about. I am not the most mechanically skilled person, and when I modify my car I want the take the route which would have the least amount of maintenance. My question is which car would require less maintenance, a NA LS1 with moderate size cam, heads, full bolt-ons, and a 100 - 150 shot of nitrous, or a forged 346 with full bolt-ons, baby cam, heads, and a D1SC pushing around 10-12 lbs of boost. Thanks for the help, I really would like to hear the FI guys opinion. Yeah we always hear about how much power the blower and turbo guys make, but are they a bitch to work on?
IMO NOS engines where out sooner because the nitrous drys out the cylinder walls and wear out the rings. FI will last longer depending on the amount of boost. Superchargers, the only thing there to worry about is belts and changing the oil. (Procharger, Vortech, etc..) Turbos are maintenance free, but the cost to build is alot more.
Ron
Ron
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Launching!
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From: S. JerZ
Really, I had heard that blowers can be a bitch to maintain. Do you think a D1SC all I would really have to worry about is the belts and oil changes? I would much rather have power all the time (obviously), but I understand FI is much more expensive. If I did it, I would go fully forged and probably only run about 10-12 lbs so that it would last me. Thanks for the help, keep em coming.
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Launching!
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From: S. JerZ
I also figured blower cars would burn up quicker than NOS cars because they are constantly going into some kind of boost, whereas the NOS cars are only gettin beat when you hit the juice?
At 10-12 psi with a DiSC its no problem, I ran 10.0-9.70s forever at that 15psi with 98 heads and stock valves, z06 cam, stock connecting rods and forged pistons (9.8:1 compression). No valvespring worries, stock idle and with the SDCE drive belts are absolutely no issue. Usually ran the car on a 50/50 mix of 104 and 93 unleaded, its an excellent combination because you really need a 'nothing' motor to make good power. And if you dont floor it you get the same mpg and wear and tear as stock as stock, hard to beat IMO and if you dont go crazy it can be done for not much more then a nice nitrous engine with fancy heads and intake etc and you never have to fill a bottle. 8-9psi with a P1SC was good for 10.90s in my old almost full weight ss with a 100% stock engine with headers and I daily drove that car.
When you start getting to 15+psi range is when bad things start happening and you have to start spending some real money.
When you start getting to 15+psi range is when bad things start happening and you have to start spending some real money.
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Thread Starter
Launching!
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From: S. JerZ
Wow kp that's awesome. Weren't you worried about the connecting rods at that kind of power level? How long did the motor last with those power levels? Basically I am looking to make some good power, but I don't want to spend more money than I need to. I like the idea of forced induction because you dont need "the greatest cam in the world", or the best heads in the world. There just something about blowers that just makes me want one so bad, and after seeing your experience its making it even harder for me to stay away. But please do give some more input.
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Originally Posted by kp
At 10-12 psi with a DiSC its no problem, I ran 10.0-9.70s forever at that 15psi with 98 heads and stock valves, z06 cam, stock connecting rods and forged pistons (9.8:1 compression). No valvespring worries, stock idle and with the SDCE drive belts are absolutely no issue... When you start getting to 15+psi range is when bad things start happening and you have to start spending some real money.
I already have an Ls6 cam, 918's and a FI system in the works, and while I can't swing a full forged rotating assy anytime soon, I could probably swing a set of pistons.
Anyone know when the stock con-rods bend/break?
Originally Posted by slowtealz28
Wow kp that's awesome. Weren't you worried about the connecting rods at that kind of power level? How long did the motor last with those power levels? Basically I am looking to make some good power, but I don't want to spend more money than I need to. I like the idea of forced induction because you dont need "the greatest cam in the world", or the best heads in the world. There just something about blowers that just makes me want one so bad, and after seeing your experience its making it even harder for me to stay away. But please do give some more input.
I wasnt scared at all with them, they are actually pretty decent connecting rods. The engine had about 10K mile son it whan I had it and I put arounf 8K street miles and over 250 passes on it before I took it out. And as far as i know its still running in a head/cam daily driver over a year ago.
But these days its kind of foolish not to use better rods since they are available for pretty cheap. But if you were buldong an ultra low budget engine less then 600hp its possible to use the stockers obviously..
Originally Posted by kp
The short block was in the car when I bought it, it was stock rods with ARP bolts, wiseco stock replacement flat top 2618 pistons and thats about it. Back when the motor was done (1999) no one was making the pistons for 6.125 rods and no one made any other rods so the stockers it was.
I wasnt scared at all with them, they are actually pretty decent connecting rods. The engine had about 10K mile son it whan I had it and I put arounf 8K street miles and over 250 passes on it before I took it out. And as far as i know its still running in a head/cam daily driver over a year ago.
But these days its kind of foolish not to use better rods since they are available for pretty cheap. But if you were buldong an ultra low budget engine less then 600hp its possible to use the stockers obviously..
I wasnt scared at all with them, they are actually pretty decent connecting rods. The engine had about 10K mile son it whan I had it and I put arounf 8K street miles and over 250 passes on it before I took it out. And as far as i know its still running in a head/cam daily driver over a year ago.
But these days its kind of foolish not to use better rods since they are available for pretty cheap. But if you were buldong an ultra low budget engine less then 600hp its possible to use the stockers obviously..
and by about 120 or so i had a good 2-2.5 cars. and i didnt have to get more juice to have fun.obviously its easier to get a N20 set up and be in the 500rwhp range and be fast as hell, but what if you're out and this bad *** C6 Z06 with a hot girl wants to race and you got no go-go juice....... simple, im BOOOSTING away my friend waxing that expensive car and its always there
good luck
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power levels being the same, N2O puts more stress on the engine. from what i understand the combution presures are higher, the "hit" is instant (with boost it takes a little time) and N2O puts the engine under more thermal stress (less product to take the heat out the chamber).
people are pushing over 500rwhp on bone stock engines and are doing fine (with boost and n2o). as long as you get the fuel in there and get the tunr right you have nothing to worry about.
having said that, would it be too difficult to swap the pistons out? and has anyone ever heard of a stock rod breaking???
thanks Chris.
people are pushing over 500rwhp on bone stock engines and are doing fine (with boost and n2o). as long as you get the fuel in there and get the tunr right you have nothing to worry about.
having said that, would it be too difficult to swap the pistons out? and has anyone ever heard of a stock rod breaking???
thanks Chris.
Being ex-turbo, If I had to choase a FI setup, it would be a SC. 10xs less parts and hassle. Turbos on a 4th gen is like 50lbs of **** in a 5lb bag unless you start giving up amenities or serious ground clearence.. or do SERIOUS modifications to the body.
When I sprayed, it was nice, but filling the bottle all the time was a PITA. Also, you have the worry about the solenoids messing up. If the fuel one even slightly messes up, your screwed... been there. Then the wiring nightmare with all the solenoids, window switch, TPS switch, progressive controller (if used), etc... just more parts = more to go wrong.
Ive built all 3 setups. I had a bg spray setup, a HUGE n/a setup and a turbo setup. I have a little experience
When I sprayed, it was nice, but filling the bottle all the time was a PITA. Also, you have the worry about the solenoids messing up. If the fuel one even slightly messes up, your screwed... been there. Then the wiring nightmare with all the solenoids, window switch, TPS switch, progressive controller (if used), etc... just more parts = more to go wrong.
Ive built all 3 setups. I had a bg spray setup, a HUGE n/a setup and a turbo setup. I have a little experience
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Launching!
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From: S. JerZ
Thanks for the info again. The only thing that sucks is I am not mechanically skilled so I am probably going to have to have a shop do most of the work for me. I still want to be able to not spend a killer amount of money, but I'm sure a shop is gonna try to persuade me into spending more than I want.
Honestly, if it were me and I wasn't mechanically inclined or having a shop do the work for me, I'd take the easiest route and go with nitrous if I were you especially if you didn't want to spend tons of money in the process. Budgets on Forged engines and turbos can get out of control in a hurry and with something like nitrous, theres really not that much startup cost like there would be with turbos or SC's. just my 2 cents though.
Originally Posted by anarchy99
Honestly, if it were me and I wasn't mechanically inclined or having a shop do the work for me, I'd take the easiest route and go with nitrous if I were you especially if you didn't want to spend tons of money in the process. Budgets on Forged engines and turbos can get out of control in a hurry and with something like nitrous, theres really not that much startup cost like there would be with turbos or SC's. just my 2 cents though.
Ron
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Ft. Irwin, California (But Virginia is home)
Originally Posted by slowtealz28
I also figured blower cars would burn up quicker than NOS cars because they are constantly going into some kind of boost, whereas the NOS cars are only gettin beat when you hit the juice?
So, FI isn't a 100% strain on the engine. It's like buying the nitrous factory and stuffing it under the hood permanently. 
Teching In
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From: Minnesota
Just look at it this way, how many cars come from the factory with N20? None? How many with boost? 2 from GM, a few(3-4?) from ford, Mitsubishi, Subaru, Saab, VW/Audi, Dodge, do I need to keep going? There are many reasons other than reliability for that, mostly people wouldn't want to refill the bottle to get stock HP levels. Boost is good. When you have a good SC or turbo kit available for your car, there's no reason not to. Then you can always get some N20 on top of the boost (if your motor will handle it) and the fun really starts!
*Correction* There is apparently one car that was sold in the UK with a factory N20 option.
*Correction* There is apparently one car that was sold in the UK with a factory N20 option.
Last edited by LittleV6; Jan 29, 2007 at 09:36 AM. Reason: Correction