I posted this on corvetteforum.com and have had no responses. I figured I would see what this crowd thinks, since you guys tend to be more "do it yourself" oriented.

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I’ve been playing around with a variety of solutions to get accurate data for tuning my FI setup over the past few months and I think I’ve finally got something that others might be interested in.

EFI Live and EASE are good tools for logging data provided by the PCM (autotap is a lame), but there is obviously some very important data missing. I wanted a solution that could also provide WB AF, boost, and fuel pressure correlated with RPM. Surprisingly enough, most dyno tune shops that charge a couple of hundred bucks for a few pulls don’t seem to have this logging capability. Most can only do RPM AF TQ HP, and your are stuck trying to generalize about what the boost and fuel pressure gauge did during the pulls. And they typically charge quite a bit extra to use their WB for the AF data. There is also a major difference between the dyno and the track and the onboard solution can really save your butt.

There are some onboard solutions on the market, but the prices are outrageous and I wanted to keep the investment well under $500 and try to leverage some of the investment I already had in gauges…. Most stuff on the market is well over 1k and seems to really start at around 2k.

So I’m in the final testing stages now and it will be a few more days before I am able get the car to the track and verify that the current solution is working correctly.

I’m also trying to figure out if it would be worth my time to distribute the software and setup instructions as shareware. You would source all the other components yourself and I would simply be providing the software that allows all the data (RPM, Boost, Fuel Pressure, WB A/F) to be acquired and possibly automatically correlated with something like an EFILive log. I don’t really want to make any serious money out of this, but it will take some valuable time to make the software distributable and I already have plenty of development work in my real job (this will all have to be done late at night when I would much rather be doing something else ). I’m also using some other shareware for serial communications within my software (so I would have to see if that guy would cut me a deal to distribute his binaries at a reduced licensing cost).

So if this solution works, what do you guys think would be a price for the software that you could stomach. (I’m thinking $50-100 for individuals) I’m just trying to figure out if it is worth my time. If I don’t feel it is, I’ll still post some instructions and raw source code for those that have software skills. BTW, the software would only be supported on windows XP/2000 and later and you would need a reasonably stout laptop to run it. I’m not even going to consider messing with any non Windows or legacy stuff.

Here are some of the hardware components that are required for the solution. All are optional except the data acquisition board, but the component is required if you want to log the type of data it acquires. The only sensor already on a sock car is the RPM feed. The sampling rate of this setup is very high and logging 100 samples per second should be possible on most computers. RPM is the only one that is a slight problem, since it’s accuracy is a function of the collection interval (It’s curve can still be accurately plotted with a lower sample rate).

1.Data acquisition board ($25 - 35) – this is what I’m using to convert analog and digital signals into serial communications that can be read by a standard PC and my software.

2.GM 2 or 3 bar map sensor ($30-75) – this is what is used to gather boost/vacuum data. It is a part that is easily ordered from any auto parts store. It’s just the Map sensor off a turbo Buick or Pontiac. If you have an electronic boost gauge I could probably also setup the software to use input from it. Mine is mechanical so I had to go with the boost capable MAP sensor.

3.5v Regulated Power supply for map sensor – this can be easily assembled from a simple IC and a few capacitors from radio shack. I could probably supply one in a case for a reasonable price (I would have too look into what a nice enclosure would cost). The parts without a case are probably about $8, but you have to do a little soldering…. I could probably also find or get a custom PCB printed to drive the price way down. There may also already be an unused regulated 5v supply somewhere on our cars.

4.Electronic fuel pressure sender – if you have a fuel pressure gauge in a C5 you already have this. I currently have mine working with the 0-100psi Autometer gauge, but I could provide calibration for any brand that provides an analog output signal that does not go above 10v. .

5.WB AF – I built a kit from http://www.techedge.com.au. The total cost with the sensor was about $250. Building it is probably not a good deal for most people and the NTK sensor that is required is really hard to get these days (from what I hear people have really jacked the price up). They are coming out with the 2.0 prebuilt version that uses the BOSCH LSU4 sensor on June 1. It will most likely be under $200 and the sensor should only be about $50.

The new versions of the techedge stuff is suppose to also support RPM and analog input logging, but I found the support to be very poor and not really worth messing with. The rpm only worked for a 4cyl and the software was not supported.

Ok, I hope that was not too confusing. I should have more info with results and screen shots within the next 7 days (If I don’t run into any more snags along the way).

Please give me honest input. I want to know if this is something that there is a real demand for and if I should bother investing valuable time in it. I personally think it is a must have, but I’m probably the minority here. I think I have more fun looking at the data when I get home than I do running at the track :crazy:, well not really.
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you have my attention.
I already have efi live and items #4 and #5 and I think a #1 that would work.

 

INTERESTED

 

Interested.

 

Sounds intresting. I already have a wideband (FJO) it does rpm, AFR and 0-5v source. I have the incon piggyback computer that has the 2 bar sensor built and boost controller that I am in process of outputing to the 0-5v source on the FJO setup. Since the Incon kit outputs the boost over the serial I may just write a small communcations program to log the FJO and boost with one program. THe FJO you just have to send it one command line to send data and one to stop.

Only thing I dont have is the fuel pressure. Had not really thought about it to much (the fuel that is). Probably will add 8 egt sensor to my manifolds whenever I get some money.

Are you going to still log with the obdii stuff at the same time (I would assume you are). If so I would recommend the keyspan 4-port (they also have a two port I think) to serial adapter. I log efilive and the wideband at the same time no problems. It will actually support 230 kbps on all 4 ports at the same time, so is definetly up to the task.

Gary

 

I'm interested, logging==good . For number 2, I checked a local dealer on a syclone/typhoon map sensor(2 bar I'm told), and they wanted $85 I think. We were gonna experiment running a speed density FI but halving/doubling map-related tables. I'm trying to wait for the v2 WB since it's so close now.

 

INTERESTED!

SC-

 

Great, I'll keep you guys posted on the progress. I just ran into a problem with the rpm feed that I did not anticipate, but I'm hoping to find a way around it.

There are 4 analog and 3 digital channels on this board, so it is possible to hook up some more stuff. For example, I currently have a status indicator to show when my alky injection turns on. An EGT probe should also be possible.

I should have more info within the next 4-5 days.

 

Ooh goody! I'm getting ready to rig up an alky setup this weekend.

 

I tried to get an o2 fitting welded in the ypipe, but the shop needs to know what kind of threads the sensor will have. Anyone know for the LSU4 sensor in the new kit?

 

It should be the same as the old ntk wideband sensors but I am not positive, so I would just measure the sensor. The NTK is 18 mm x 1.5 mm pitch.

Gary

 

I've already seen something like this. Its off for manufacturing right now. Has a wideband, knock sensor (with head phone jack to listen), and 4-5 other inputs to log whatever. Has onboard logging or you can hook it up to a laptop and log with the software. Has a nice display for the a/f and whatever else. Its being made by a large multi-million dollar tuning company, and is a professional piece, not something assembled in a garage. Price should be ~$600. I'll have a test unit once the first one rolls off the assembly line to test. There products have always been top notch.

Edit, Used the Bosch sensor, and Bosch knock sensor.

 

Slam post, if I ever saw one. Very transparent.
You could have been a bit more subtle if you were going to step on his post.

Otherwise, you should have started your own thread.
Your post just made one strike AGAINST me wanting it.
It may turn out good, but they don't need you as their spokesperson.

 

It's cool, this is the sort of information I was looking for. Although a firm company name and ETA would have been better. If something else is really coming out soon that is reasonably priced, I'm all for it and will be one of the first to buy it. But without firm information, I'll continue to pursue my project. There is definitely no guarantee of technology lifetime with stuff like this, but that is why I wanted the hardware to be cheap and multi purpose. No matter what solution you go with, you will have to buy sensors... and an analog to serial device is something that you can do all types of interesting projects with.

Here is a quick update on my project.

The 3rd party library will cost me $100 for 20 licenses, so that is better than I originally thought.

I ran into a problem where the RPM feed stopped reading above 4800, after I hooked up everything (Wideband, FP, Boost, and RPM). It turns out that the data acquisition board/API can only read 480 samples/sec across the number of active analog channels (480/3 in this case). Since the RPM pulses twice per revolution, it could only read 160 per sec, which is 4800 rpm.

The solution is to cut the number of channels down to two, which forces me to drop one of the inputs. I did not want to drop any inputs, so I just ordered another board so that I can try spreading the inputs across two devices. They only cost $24.95, so no big deal.

I also probably need to find a cheap multi port serial adapter that provides a good interrupt multiplexing scheme. I'll have to look into the one mentioned above and a few others.

I'm still on the fence about trying to build something that I distribute, but I'm leaning towards giving it a try. It's been a long time since I've built production code that has a UI (I build high performance web server software for a living that has very little traditional UI). I'll need a few Beta users to help me find the bugs. Let me know if you are interested in being one of them.

 

I was told not to give out info, but I can 100% guarantee is real. They are out for production right now. I wasn't trying to slam anything, just inform. The only reason I know about it is my friend works there, and told me.

 

I dont remember much on the keyspan as far a techinical details, I dont think they post to much. It basically should be transparent to a windows or linux environment i.e. you program/initialize it the exact same way you would any comm port. It handles the rest.

You may also want to look at the ones B&B (autotap) sells, they are made by ionetworks. I think they have a ton of programming references on there equipment. The only problem with the ionetworks stuff is its expensive about twice the price of a keyspan. The 4 port keyspan cost around $150 probably a year and half ago, so the price is probably down a little.

Gary

 

Dude, my brain hurts now. Trying to keep up though.

 

Oh yeah, I'm interested by the way, saving money for more mods=good

 

what about the flux capactiors??? just messing
keep us informed sounds good to me

 

would this work only on a LS1 pcm or others as well? would it be its own kinda standalone?

i have a turbo motor that i'd like to long fuel pressure and before IAT temps, since i can monitor the "afters" with my FAST computer.

things like that

Let me know when you'd have the beta versions ready, i'd like to try them out