Roots Style vs Centrifugal Blower
02-09-2008, 11:27 AM
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Roots Style vs Centrifugal Blower I have searched the forums, but can't seem to find a good thread that really compares a roots style, like the magnacharger, to a cintrifugal blower, like the procharger, on an LS1 car. I know that the magnacharger requires some fab work to fit, but I am more concerned with power gains between the two. I love a Kenny Bell roots style on an '03-'04 Cobra Mustang, but I want to know if it is worth getting this style for an LS1 T/A.
02-09-2008, 02:50 PM
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Any advantage to belt stress with the magnacharger? I have heard that the procharger really messes with your A/C compressor, especially in daily driving conditions.
02-09-2008, 02:57 PM
#5
As far as actual belt stress goes, I have seen Magnachargers schred belts just as much if not more than centrifugal superchargers.
02-09-2008, 03:02 PM
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I think I am close to 20,000 miles on my procharger right now. I have not had any problems with my AC at all. Of course when I get on it I turn off the AC in the summer. Other than that the procharger is as daily drivable as it gets.
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02-09-2008, 06:08 PM
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Yeah, I guess that magnacharger isn't twin screw, its like the stock eaton blower on a Terminator Cobra or a Saleen which isn't very good. Hopefully Kenny Bell or someone like him is working on something twin screw for the LS1 crowd. Has anyone heard anything?
02-09-2008, 08:30 PM
#13
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/860935-kenne-bell-install-numbers-now-well.html
Centris make great HP, but they dont make the low end torque, or power under the curve that positive displacement blowers do. They both have their advantages and disadvantages.
Centris make great HP, but they dont make the low end torque, or power under the curve that positive displacement blowers do. They both have their advantages and disadvantages.
02-09-2008, 11:06 PM
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It all comes down to what you want. Like he just said, they both have thier good and bad points. If it was not for the EPP kits, and several other sponsers out there the base ATI kit is really not the best option. I use to rip my belts with my Procharger on my C5 until they came out with a new tensioner for them. Vortech has been known for them slipping and being eaten up. Maggie I know of just one and that was corrected with new spacers. ATI's base kit with a 6 rib or intercoolers where they use to be did not put out that much. Any Blower has its limits. Everyone says that procharger will alwasy out horsepower the maggie. Well lets keep the playing field the same here. My MP112 against a P1SC would be a good comparison. The MP122HH and the D1SC, and the new TVS vs well you get the picture. Eaton's blowers are simple torque monsters.
Thing is no one who owns one, and is going to say after they spent thousands on thier kit it sucks. I have owned a procharger and 2 maggies. The procharger on a C5, C6 I had a maggie and my current car a SS with a maggie. Where I live high RPMs to achieve power is not what I want. Here in KY there is alot of twisty roads, my C5 with the P1SC and 10#'s was not for me. I was so high in the RPM's you could hear me coming through the hills and everytime I came out of a good turn I had to shift. No thanks, and it got old. With the maggie the torque down low keeps and moves me through the turns and keeps me going without shifting like I did before. If you want mre then 600 RWHP the procharger or turbo would be a good choice. Below that its going to be hard to convince me otherwise from a maggie, and I have owned both.
Thing is no one who owns one, and is going to say after they spent thousands on thier kit it sucks. I have owned a procharger and 2 maggies. The procharger on a C5, C6 I had a maggie and my current car a SS with a maggie. Where I live high RPMs to achieve power is not what I want. Here in KY there is alot of twisty roads, my C5 with the P1SC and 10#'s was not for me. I was so high in the RPM's you could hear me coming through the hills and everytime I came out of a good turn I had to shift. No thanks, and it got old. With the maggie the torque down low keeps and moves me through the turns and keeps me going without shifting like I did before. If you want mre then 600 RWHP the procharger or turbo would be a good choice. Below that its going to be hard to convince me otherwise from a maggie, and I have owned both.
02-10-2008, 03:13 AM
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From what I have gathered, the maggie (magnacharger) is an eaton style; in Mustang terms (only one turbine), but if this magnachrger is this favorable on low end torque and response, a twin screw of this design, like a KB, would be the ultimate choice for street or autocross where that low end grunt really counts
02-10-2008, 08:34 AM
#18
You're not going to have a fair dyno comparison unless its the exact same car with the exact same setup other than a centrifugal supercharger vs a magnacharger. Different cams alone will make HUGE differences in the curves of the dyno's.
I agree with BadMonkey only partially. Yeah I spent thousands on my Procharger, but that doesn't mean I can't be honest about its faults and gains vs a Magnacharger.
Pro's and Cons, Centrifugal vs Roots style
Pro's for Roots style:
Easier installation
Better low end torque
Cons for Roots style:
Less capable of making total power
Not as many sold, so customer service and availability will be worse
Pros for Centrifugal:
More power making capability
Can be found everywhere with great customer service and prices
Cons for Centrifugal:
More difficult installation
Less boosting capabilities at lower RPM
As for the belt schredding issues; it has yet to be proven to me that neither of these are better than the other at schredding belts. I have seen equal number of people schred belts with both. The key is really getting a good tensioner setup (Centrifugal), or a proper spacer setup (Magnacharger). I know one guy with a Magnacharger that used to carry at least a half dozen new belts in his trunk just because he would schred them all the time once he went to WOT. I'm sure there are guys with centrifugal superchargers with similar problems (although I personally haven't heard as many).
I agree with BadMonkey only partially. Yeah I spent thousands on my Procharger, but that doesn't mean I can't be honest about its faults and gains vs a Magnacharger.
Pro's and Cons, Centrifugal vs Roots style
Pro's for Roots style:
Easier installation
Better low end torque
Cons for Roots style:
Less capable of making total power
Not as many sold, so customer service and availability will be worse
Pros for Centrifugal:
More power making capability
Can be found everywhere with great customer service and prices
Cons for Centrifugal:
More difficult installation
Less boosting capabilities at lower RPM
As for the belt schredding issues; it has yet to be proven to me that neither of these are better than the other at schredding belts. I have seen equal number of people schred belts with both. The key is really getting a good tensioner setup (Centrifugal), or a proper spacer setup (Magnacharger). I know one guy with a Magnacharger that used to carry at least a half dozen new belts in his trunk just because he would schred them all the time once he went to WOT. I'm sure there are guys with centrifugal superchargers with similar problems (although I personally haven't heard as many).
02-10-2008, 09:18 AM
#19
The power of each will remain similar. The exact same engine/car with the 2 different blowers, the graphs will still look very similar to those. A centri builds power linear to the rpms. A positive displacement blower jumps up at the hit, and carries a very flat torque curve, and usually will peak the HP sooner than the centri, and then tend to level or drop off slightly.
I can post several dif graphs both from maggies, KBs, and different centris, and the PD blowers all look very similar, and the centris all look like each other. They may vary a little bit, but you wont see a centri make a graph that looks like its a PD blower.
I can post several dif graphs both from maggies, KBs, and different centris, and the PD blowers all look very similar, and the centris all look like each other. They may vary a little bit, but you wont see a centri make a graph that looks like its a PD blower.
02-10-2008, 09:34 AM
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I am with call911 alot of that. As for the money spent on a setup, it can go both ways. I am not pointing fingures at you on that. Trust me on that one. F/I is not cheap and just because you get a Maggie used for 2500 or a ATI for that as well does not mean in the end the build itself will be cheaper lol. All I meant by it is that alot of guys put alot into thier setups and have alot of pride. Its almost like which is better a TA or SS.
One thing I do disagree with though its that the Magnacharger has been around for some time. Lingenfelter has been selling these kits for a while, now Calloway does as well for Corvettes. The kit itself for the F Body has only been around for a year or so (through LM Speed). There are some bugs. Especially since you have to use a SD tune with it. Magnacharger's warrenty is top notch. If you look back at ATI's, a few sponsers on the Corvette forum dropped them because of customer service issues and price issues. THat was not the only reason but it was part of it if I am not mistaken. A&A Corvette is one if I do recall. I have not heard of one bad thing about the Radix (truck version of the maggie) or the magnacharger as to warrenty issues. And they do not need to be oiled.
I like both honestly. The main reason why so few buy the Maggie is because people think because it only gets so much HP vs the Procharger or anything else. Everyone wants to buy something that will get them the most HP. Yet most will never try to get that far because after you hit so much HP you more then double your budget for it. Alot of people are stuck on the PEAK HP of a setup. I tell you this you run in a Maggie car then a Procharger car with the same power numbers. That will help you decide. There is a guy in TN with one and I may be at Beech Bend on the 1st with mine to try and see what numbers we can get at the track.
One thing I do disagree with though its that the Magnacharger has been around for some time. Lingenfelter has been selling these kits for a while, now Calloway does as well for Corvettes. The kit itself for the F Body has only been around for a year or so (through LM Speed). There are some bugs. Especially since you have to use a SD tune with it. Magnacharger's warrenty is top notch. If you look back at ATI's, a few sponsers on the Corvette forum dropped them because of customer service issues and price issues. THat was not the only reason but it was part of it if I am not mistaken. A&A Corvette is one if I do recall. I have not heard of one bad thing about the Radix (truck version of the maggie) or the magnacharger as to warrenty issues. And they do not need to be oiled.
I like both honestly. The main reason why so few buy the Maggie is because people think because it only gets so much HP vs the Procharger or anything else. Everyone wants to buy something that will get them the most HP. Yet most will never try to get that far because after you hit so much HP you more then double your budget for it. Alot of people are stuck on the PEAK HP of a setup. I tell you this you run in a Maggie car then a Procharger car with the same power numbers. That will help you decide. There is a guy in TN with one and I may be at Beech Bend on the 1st with mine to try and see what numbers we can get at the track.