Thank you! You hit the nail on the head.That is exactly what Jim and I are talking about.

 

The fact of the matter is that when the kits were advertised they said they can deliver up to X amount of horsepower. If people bought the kits under these circumstances and the only limiting factor is a part on the kit, then the parts should be replaced for free. Reguardless of price paid for a product if it is stated that it can do something before bill of sale and it turns out it can not then it is on the sellers buck to fix the issues not the buyer. Let me give you an example. You buy a brand new car for way under sticker which is told to you to run great and after paying for the car you go to start it and it doesnt turn over. Either A. you go back to the dealer to have them fix it since it was sold as a working car or B. you put your own money in it to fix what should of worked in the first place. I think most people, financially, and legally would choose to take choice A. even though they may have gotten a great deal on a brand new car.

I dont think anybody that purchased the kit wont be able to scrap up a few extra hundred dollars to fix whats wrong but legally tell me why they would have to. I'm not saying anybody would take this to court because its only $300 but in case you didnt know the judge could care less what someone paid for something. If it was advertised to do something before bill of sale and it can not do so after the fact because of manufacture defect then guess who is in the wrong.

At the end of the day if all it takes is $300 to fix what is presumably a great kit so be it, but legally and morally this should not fall on the buyer no matter how you slice it.

 

So if we do order these when can we get them. My guy want $475 for him to make me two.

The intake ducks that is.

 

While not a bad example not the same. The car would have warranty being new so A is the manufactures responsebility because they offer a warranty with the purchase of a new vehicle. And while I can see that some of you have some what of a legitimate gripe hence while I offered my simpathy etc...The kit was listed wth its components and lists its capabilities no were did they promise that it would do so in base form etc... Yeah it is a loop hole but one that protects them I would bet from any major legal issues. So again like KWIKKAR found out there solution/upgrades as APS call it, is relatively cheap. GL! Guys this is the last I will respond to this thread as there is nothing more for me to say I feel for you guys.

 

I installed the pipes on my car per the instructions, backed it out of the garage and when the front wheels made the 1" drop from my garage floor to the ground out front I guess the sway bars hit. I left it parked in the driveway over night pulled it back into the garage and put it back on the lift to install some parts on the exhaust and noticed the dents in the pipes, so I took the sway bar off.
oh and BTW Kelly is a chick not a guy just FYI.

 

i would completely agree that the kit was a great price and an awesome deal....BUT it was advertised as fitting with a stock height suspension etc etc,if it doesnt meet that then its not "as advertised" and the people who bought a kit should have the problem fixed for free or at cost.its a bad deal for both,especially since people are having turbo issues and psi issues as well,but a company that stands behind their product will fix an issue so it meets what was "advertised".i always preferred the other twin kit myself but to each his own.

 

This thread is going nowhere guys. Almost 20 pages and 200 posts. It's getting rather repetitive now don't you think? We are NOT going to get free upgrades- plain and simple.

It has been stated again and again. We have two camps here. One camp (mine) who thinks we should all get free upgraded parts so that the kit can do what it was promised to do and one camp that thinks it is such a good deal that we should quit 'whining' about it. I don't see how price reflects what a product is advertised to do but so be it.

 

hey i waht to start a third Camp.

the ones that are willing to buy it form a state side dealer( like speed inc) and APS can just ship it all to them.

So peter, please can you ask your owner to pay for the shipping to the states. and my camp will buy the ducts at your cost. you eat shipping to state side dealer.

 

I'm willing to compromise, that sounds like a reasonable offer if APS can find a state side shop willing to help.

 

Honestly I doubt the owner is aware of any of this. Probably believes everybody loves his product that doesnt appear to have been road tested. The denial, backpedaling and all the half truths look as if some are covering up to keep their bonuses. The pics of the new IMPROVED ducts for our the standard kit a few pages back looks to be misleading us again and actually for the upgraded turbo with 3" inlet.

 

Add Me To The Third Camp

 

dude are you serious. i have nt ridden in too many heavily modified thus loud, low riding cars that didnt make all kinds of noises over bumps... **** in general.

unless you got a lot of money... which people buyin a budget kit dont have... despite the fact they got a great deal...dont ya think they go after a deal, cause thats the money they have. so 400 hundred dollars is not overly feasable for them.

to make a loud noise it has to be a solid object on solid object. not solid a-arm on a half assed pipe with silcone on both sides. i mean come on, you are assuming this many people are ignorant?? i personally understand the sway arm deal as minor( not counting the ts) but the intake pipes is BS. why couldnt aps send specs to a silicone company here, thus cutting 25% of the cost to the end user.

sway bar, mistake. not using a production part on the test kit. stupid and there fault, there liabilty.

 

well if you want in the third camp join my other post

https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...4#post10030354

thanks

 

So you want a company to take the risk and try to build a budget twin turbo kit to fit every single F-body out there and give it to you for an extremely fair price however when there are some small issues ($$ wise) your going to demand new parts? Sure they made a mistake but you have to factor into any build, especially a twin turbo build, some additional costs. Should it have happened? No. Would it be nice for APS to give everyone the parts for free? Sure. Is that realistic? No. I think the fact that they are willing to give everyone the piping for cost plus shipping is pretty good and if they can all be shipped in bulk to save shipping costs then all the better. Also, NO ONE should take on a twin turbo build if they are strapped for $400 because parts break and if your building a high horsepower car while strapped for cash your just looking for a pretty lawn ornament.

 

Yeah but its not just THAT 400 bucks, it the 200 to fix welding pipes cause they cracked, that isnt even included in the nearly 400 of cutting and welding that also needed to go on, 50 bucks for new drain hoses, 30 bucks for new endlinks, 420 for the K member, 600 bucks to upgrade crappy wastegates, and the other expences like 2k for a fuel system, 800 in fuel lines and hoses, 1k+ rebuilding your tranny to hold the power, 2k in the rearend so it dont break, 1500 for a clutch to handle it.... i can go on and on. I know you say an EXTRA 400, but add that to the 7000 you already have to add and you will see what we mean.


and for the tubes. beating a dead horse here. maybe i can put this in a term you understand. You buy a gun expecting it to cycle extermly fast, you expect it to funtion as advertized but it jams everytime you fire it, the only way for it to cycle correctly is for you to get an upgraded firing pin from the manufacturer which you are going to have to pay for, when the brand new gun never fired right in the first place.... Do you think you should have to pay for a new firing pin when the gun never opereated corectly in the first place....

Or maybe you buy a brand new car, everytime you accelerate past 20mph the check engine light comes on, The dealership says its a special part you have to buy so your brand new car can operate as designed.

starting to get the point

 

Well I went into this fi thing knowing this was a tuner kit.I knew would need to get fuel system. I realized it would need a new k member and ypipe if kept the stock catback type setup. I knew I would have to upgrade stock motor if wanted to go much past 500rwhp. I knew would have to upgrade clutch, trans ,rear end to handle the power.I knew it would be expensive. Or everyone would do it.

Curious why you upgraded the gates? to which gates? Bigger tials fit on there? Different make??. Gates are too keep the boost down not needed much on a forged motor like you or I have.
I have used tial a lot before and still using it on my dsms. No complaints at all with tial gates. You might need to change springs to get to higher boost levels the stock springs are not likley to let you get to high teens. I was hoping to see my goals at maybe 14psi or so. 800rwhp auto or 850 rwhp stick. Shouldn't be necessary to push to high teens I don't think with these smaller snails. They are not likely to give much past 750 to 800 rwhp anyway. Which was fine with me. That pretty much 1000 engine hp on an auto car at 20% driveline loss.

Anyway glad some of you have been the pioneers and brought out some of the bugs of the f body aps setup. Now we can fix the bugs hopefully. I have been spending some time on the gto forums on this board and other boards. Lots of aps turbo cars there and most seem to be working excellent. They got their systems think a bit before ours can't remember now and they use the same turbos. Not sure if the c5 guys also have same turbos on base system? Not seeing much about turbo problems on those forums.

Can someone please tell me why you can't put silicone sections where the sway bar hits? Silicone can easily stand up to 20psi. May dsm guys run over 30psi with no problems with good silicone and t bolt clamps.Course spacers and link changes are pretty easy and cheap and will use stock sway bar if I must or no sway bar if I must. Would like to keep my nice big hotchkis but whatever not the end of the world to me.
At least I got to keep my air conditioning! more important to me.

 

i like your gun comparison. the company says buy our gun it iwll do 18 rounds per min. after you buy it no one can get it to shoot faster then 14 rounds. so company says "oh you have to buy this upgrade part" to get the Advertised 18 rounds

in the states this wouldn't happen. isn't there laws about false advertisement?

now i have agreed to pay for the ducts. just not the shipping. so peter just let me know what compnay i can get them from.

 

did Peter post additional pictures somewhere as mentioned above or a schematic for the spacer? would like to get these made/purchased this week for my weekend project list! if someone here already has done it could u post pics and also where u got the endlinks and what to ask for. thx.

 

I heard shipping on the schematics were $100 each.

 

um no. read my other posts. and i said the sway bar thing is a simple mistake. it sucks but thats a fitment issue and fitment on ANYTHING sold by anyone should be checked again and again. the intake tubes are not a fitment problem, its a quality problem brought on by not testing the product they sold. just imo. i am building my own single turbo kit. so i guess its not really my problem at all