cogs....
09-02-2008, 12:52 PM
#1
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cogs.... Is there any real reason a cogged setup, dedicated blower drive using a 2" wide belt...cant be reliable for a road car ?
Despite blowing mine up.....boost still wasnt doing what I wanted with the smaller blower pulley.
It seems slip is always just around the corner, and Im getting fed up. The supplier I got my 12 rib Gates belt from also seems to have dissappeared, and I only have 3 left.
I did try another brand before, but it just stretched.
As for gearing....Id need to get pulleys custom made.
Could I assume that when my 12 rib was working, I was in fact getting zero slip, and aim for that same gearing ?
And is a manual, or automatic tensioner better ? I'll be adding extra idlers too, to ensure the belt is well controlled.
My other option is to add idlers to the ribbed setup, to really force wrap around the blower pulley.
That still leaves me searching for a belt supplier in a while.
Despite blowing mine up.....boost still wasnt doing what I wanted with the smaller blower pulley.
It seems slip is always just around the corner, and Im getting fed up. The supplier I got my 12 rib Gates belt from also seems to have dissappeared, and I only have 3 left.
I did try another brand before, but it just stretched.
As for gearing....Id need to get pulleys custom made.
Could I assume that when my 12 rib was working, I was in fact getting zero slip, and aim for that same gearing ?
And is a manual, or automatic tensioner better ? I'll be adding extra idlers too, to ensure the belt is well controlled.
My other option is to add idlers to the ribbed setup, to really force wrap around the blower pulley.
That still leaves me searching for a belt supplier in a while.
09-02-2008, 07:08 PM
#3
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I know a guy from Sweden over on the Vette forum recently made 900+ on a full custom 50mm cog.....and thats driving all the accessories !!!
So surely it cant be that difficult with blower only.
So surely it cant be that difficult with blower only.
09-03-2008, 12:43 PM
#4
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We are working with a few of the guys over at Procharger for a F1+ setup COG'd. We will have a COG setup soon, which will retain use of the entire accessory system on the 6-rib side and use a COG drive for blower/tensioner pulley/crank.
We are hoping to have some preliminary mockups for next week.
We are hoping to have some preliminary mockups for next week.
09-03-2008, 03:08 PM
#5
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Cog belts are expensive which is one reason you don't see folks being as experimental. If you look at some of the hot rod cog setups you sometimes see in contrast that F and Y body combos have much less room to run similar idlers which could lead to problems of having belts walk off.
09-03-2008, 03:14 PM
#6
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As things stand....my 12 rib belts are pretty expensive anyway.
I have found another supplier who can special order them in....12PK1603 ( 63.1", which is 1/8" longer than previous belt )
But they want UK £43ea, and for a 2" wide cog belt, £50....
So price of belts isnt a big deal. Although the cog belt is on the shelf.
Narrower belts would of course be cheaper, and more readily available....Ive just no idea how anyone makes them grip when my current 12rib struggles at times.
So the most important thing, is belt control.....idlers everywhere ??
I have found another supplier who can special order them in....12PK1603 ( 63.1", which is 1/8" longer than previous belt )
But they want UK £43ea, and for a 2" wide cog belt, £50....
So price of belts isnt a big deal. Although the cog belt is on the shelf.
Narrower belts would of course be cheaper, and more readily available....Ive just no idea how anyone makes them grip when my current 12rib struggles at times.
So the most important thing, is belt control.....idlers everywhere ??
09-03-2008, 03:21 PM
#7
Depends on how custom you want to go, I'm setting my F2 up with cogs. It has enough room for a 75mm belt. Basicly nothing is very stock anymore though. If your interested to see how I set mine up it's in here: https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...929781&page=11 There is a bit of good info on some other cog set-ups in there too.
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09-03-2008, 05:00 PM
#8
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We have looked into cog for the race car as of a few weeks ago.
As for the belt being pricey, think of shredding 3-4 8rib belts, thats about what a GT2 carbon backed belt costs $70-80 depending on width and length.
As for durability, it all depends on how its driven. We have not ran out car down the track so we are still testing what we have setup, if all goes well it will be released as a DIY setup, still chopping the rad support.
As for another issue, the stocker ATI bracket is not strong enough to run a maxed blower without struts and support braces. Just seeing our car bend the bracket a good 3/8s to a 1/2in with a good rev is enough to look into other ideas.
A steel bracket may be the ticket, but a adjustable heim to set a tad bit of tension should be the key.
Keep in mind, when you have a ribbed belt, it can slip and mask your bracket issues, with a cog you will know ASAP if something if wrong. It also sounds pretty cool
As for the belt being pricey, think of shredding 3-4 8rib belts, thats about what a GT2 carbon backed belt costs $70-80 depending on width and length.
As for durability, it all depends on how its driven. We have not ran out car down the track so we are still testing what we have setup, if all goes well it will be released as a DIY setup, still chopping the rad support.
As for another issue, the stocker ATI bracket is not strong enough to run a maxed blower without struts and support braces. Just seeing our car bend the bracket a good 3/8s to a 1/2in with a good rev is enough to look into other ideas.
A steel bracket may be the ticket, but a adjustable heim to set a tad bit of tension should be the key.
Keep in mind, when you have a ribbed belt, it can slip and mask your bracket issues, with a cog you will know ASAP if something if wrong. It also sounds pretty cool
09-04-2008, 09:05 PM
#9
We had my Camaro on the dyno this afternoon with the cog set-up. At 5500 rpm we were at 19 psi of boost and up 100 rwhp! Then the cog belt broke... Next we're going to try a wider one. Bob
09-05-2008, 05:03 AM
#11
I'll have to check with Brent, with the loose converter it's not going to be real impressive. I was on the phone when we ran the car. Brent said it's never yanked the front tires up off the dyno before like it did yesterday during that brief run, and yes, the front end was strapped down... lol Bob
09-05-2008, 06:46 AM
#12
What size belt and what type did you break? Did it break while you were in the middle of the pull? I'm starting with a poly chain GT2 36mm on mine and can go larger later but I thought that would be plenty to hold for now. I don't understand why these cog belts break, I thought they are stronger. I understand that a normal belt will just slip at a point of too much stress and the cog can't so it breaks instead but what causes that much stress? Do you have a super pulley on it?
09-05-2008, 08:32 AM
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We have looked into cog for the race car as of a few weeks ago.
As for the belt being pricey, think of shredding 3-4 8rib belts, thats about what a GT2 carbon backed belt costs $70-80 depending on width and length.
As for durability, it all depends on how its driven. We have not ran out car down the track so we are still testing what we have setup, if all goes well it will be released as a DIY setup, still chopping the rad support.
As for another issue, the stocker ATI bracket is not strong enough to run a maxed blower without struts and support braces. Just seeing our car bend the bracket a good 3/8s to a 1/2in with a good rev is enough to look into other ideas.
A steel bracket may be the ticket, but a adjustable heim to set a tad bit of tension should be the key.
Keep in mind, when you have a ribbed belt, it can slip and mask your bracket issues, with a cog you will know ASAP if something if wrong. It also sounds pretty cool
As for the belt being pricey, think of shredding 3-4 8rib belts, thats about what a GT2 carbon backed belt costs $70-80 depending on width and length.
As for durability, it all depends on how its driven. We have not ran out car down the track so we are still testing what we have setup, if all goes well it will be released as a DIY setup, still chopping the rad support.
As for another issue, the stocker ATI bracket is not strong enough to run a maxed blower without struts and support braces. Just seeing our car bend the bracket a good 3/8s to a 1/2in with a good rev is enough to look into other ideas.
A steel bracket may be the ticket, but a adjustable heim to set a tad bit of tension should be the key.
Keep in mind, when you have a ribbed belt, it can slip and mask your bracket issues, with a cog you will know ASAP if something if wrong. It also sounds pretty cool
We then move the alternator down low, flipped it backwards and ran it off the AC crank pulley. This allowed the blower to have its own dedicated belt and just touched the water pump pulley enough to spin it with out too much stress on it. This was good for 1200rwhp at 5500.
09-05-2008, 04:35 PM
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Yea, we used the GT2 Carbon belt, which turns out didnt like us at all lol.
So were going 50mm wide Power-Grip belt, we have some ideas to run a tensioner and a few diffrent pulleys on order.
So were going 50mm wide Power-Grip belt, we have some ideas to run a tensioner and a few diffrent pulleys on order.
09-05-2008, 04:55 PM
#17
Ran a cogged set up on my D1-SC set up for a while. Kept breaking cog belts, **** I still have about 3 left sitting in the garage and I still have the cog set up sitting in a box too.
I gave up on the cog set up and went to the SDCE 8 rib setup and never messed with belt slip/breakage again.
I know its not too relevant here, but there has been a dude that has had great success going very fast with the SDCE set up, paging KP...KP please chime in.
I gave up on the cog set up and went to the SDCE 8 rib setup and never messed with belt slip/breakage again.
I know its not too relevant here, but there has been a dude that has had great success going very fast with the SDCE set up, paging KP...KP please chime in.
09-05-2008, 05:01 PM
#18
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I know links to non-sponsors are generally frowned upon.... But this guy in Australia seems to use cogs on most of the Centri setups ( same basic design as mine )
http://www.marksworkshop.com.au/Pages/feature.htm
http://www.marksworkshop.com.au/Pages/custom2.1.htm
He doesnt do mail order or anything....so the link would only be useful for browsing, or people local to him.
He uses an automatic tensioner on a few of the conversions....all with the 50mm cog. Some of the conversions are a work of art !!!!
I did email him asking if he thought a cog drive can be a viable, reliable system for a road car. Unfortunately he didnt reply. But as he is using it, clearly he is getting them to work !!!
Troys red GTO ( 2nd car from top left ) is pretty impressive. He has added some idlers and brackets over my basic setup though. Too difficult to tell exactly whats going on from the pics though.
http://www.marksworkshop.com.au/Pages/feature.htm
http://www.marksworkshop.com.au/Pages/custom2.1.htm
He doesnt do mail order or anything....so the link would only be useful for browsing, or people local to him.
He uses an automatic tensioner on a few of the conversions....all with the 50mm cog. Some of the conversions are a work of art !!!!
I did email him asking if he thought a cog drive can be a viable, reliable system for a road car. Unfortunately he didnt reply. But as he is using it, clearly he is getting them to work !!!
Troys red GTO ( 2nd car from top left ) is pretty impressive. He has added some idlers and brackets over my basic setup though. Too difficult to tell exactly whats going on from the pics though.
09-06-2008, 01:01 AM
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Ran a cogged set up on my D1-SC set up for a while. Kept breaking cog belts, **** I still have about 3 left sitting in the garage and I still have the cog set up sitting in a box too.
I gave up on the cog set up and went to the SDCE 8 rib setup and never messed with belt slip/breakage again.
I know its not too relevant here, but there has been a dude that has had great success going very fast with the SDCE set up, paging KP...KP please chime in.
I gave up on the cog set up and went to the SDCE 8 rib setup and never messed with belt slip/breakage again.
I know its not too relevant here, but there has been a dude that has had great success going very fast with the SDCE set up, paging KP...KP please chime in.