ZL1Killa

iTrader: (17)

Guys/gals, I have had a LOT of people asking me and posting wanting to know about adjusting these tables in the PCM for injectors, in particular at the moment the 42# injectors from Delphi/Lucas and such.

Tables:
Offset VS volts VS kPa
Min pulse width
Default pulse width
Small pulse adjust


Now of course there are differences between HPTuners and EFI LIVE, but I think we can figure the naming out.

I'm posting what I'm using right now for my 42# injectors, and whether it is right or not I have no idea... maybe we can get some injector gurus out here with this thread??

OFFSET VS Volts VS kPa


SMALL PULSE ADJUST


MIN PULSE WIDTH


INJECTOR TIMING


INJECTOR TIMING TRIM


DEF MIN PULSE WIDTH

ZL1Killa

iTrader: (17)

I was told this: set IFR to begin with

Then play around with the short pulse limit, short pulse adder, and minimum injector pulse width tables.

These often get overlooked, as people just plug in IFR vs KPA numbers in the main flow rate table, then wonder why they idle rich. I have to admit, however, that I did raise my idle speed to 800rpm before I changed those tables. The reason I made a big deal of the voltage is that on my friend's 434 SBC, he could not get 60's to idle at all when his alternator barely maintained 12.5V at idle. He replaced it with a different one that charged at a steady rate over 13.5, and he now has the 60's idleing no problem. As someone stated in your other thread, however, some other brands of injector are more difficult to tune for their size.

I have emailed and will call this week various vendors and injector manufacturers to see if they will share the data sheets or if I'm just have to send my damn injectors in to RCENG for all their tests and $$$ spending

ZL1Killa

iTrader: (17)

GUYS/GALS that are injector knowledgable
...bump for the day

the question is, yes we can make the numbers lower and such and just mess with them, but what are we looking for in say the scan tool for it to be right? or is it when it doesn't idle rich..etc and returns to stoich when off throttle??

Goldfinger911

iTrader: (24)

As soon as the rain stops I am going to be testing your collection of settings, against 3 other sets from other people as well as my own tweaks. Thanks for the contribution ZL'.

jimmyblue

iTrader: (11)

I'd be interested in seeing the method for getting
to the proper offset data from "clean slate". The
offset is going to be kind of balled up with the
quality of low-end VE table fit, if you're truing up
using on-car feedback methods. Unfortunately
nobody makes a good $99 fuel injector tester with
variable pulse width, pressure and voltage.

"Teach a man to fish and he'll sit in a boat and
drink beer all day".

edcmat-l1

iTrader: (10)

Just my exp., method, whatever, but I never touch the offsets for 42 pounders. Never seemed to have to. Just the flow rate, and min pulse tables and that's it.

Goldfinger911

iTrader: (24)

42lb SVO injectors? Or any 42lb injectors? Peoples experiences and research have shown the SVO pintile-type injectors to behave quite differently than the faster disc-type 42lb injector like Lucas or Delphi. For example, looking at the results from the injector wizard in the AEM tuning tools, the settings do differ especially voltage offset. I was just curious because you indicate that have has good luck leaving the stock offset table alone.

Maybe it is like the old saying, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

ZL1Killa

iTrader: (17)

what did you use for the min pulse?

A Little Birdie told me:
42#ers usually aren't big enough to give problems if you just change the IFR tables. You normally shouldn't run into minimum pulse problems unless they are really shitty injectors. The big problem I have seen is that many injectors are marketed as 42# injectors, but that is at 4bar (LS1) fuel pressure instead of the more standard 3bar pressure rating. As far as voltage and other offsets, that is going to be specific to the brand of injector you install. There was a thread last year where someone posted some good info on Ford green tops and a couple of other common 42# injectors, but I don't know how well the search is working nowadays.


I will try and search for that later today (possibly... odd work hours this week and next)

ZL1Killa

iTrader: (17)

Little birdie:
I usually just set the min pulse to 1.

gametech

iTrader: (1)

I would like to clarify. Some of ZL1KILLA's posts had quotes from threads and PMs that I posted in. I DO NOT tune professionally, and I have rarely tuned or helped tuned friend's cars with similar setups (it always seems to be something different). This means that I DO know what works with several VERY specific setups, but I cannot say that the exact numbers would work on another car. This is why most of my info is in generalities and involves a lot of trial and error tuning. Even some of GM's factory tuning lately has had fudged numbers (look at a c6zo6 PE or IFR table). That being said, I don't believe I have written any bad info here.

kenp

iTrader: (9)

Looking at a data sheet for the Delphi Lucas 42Lb injector, it is tested at 3 bars and 14volts with a fluid that does not flow exactly as gasoline. According to that data, the injector flows 42.29lbs/hr as tested but would need to be multiplied by 1.035 for gasoline and would be 43.77lbs/hr at 3 bars (43.5psi). That makes it a 50.5lb/hr injector at 58psi.

BobDoLe

iTrader: (11)

what do you have your short pulse limit set to?
thanks for sharing this

shoemike

iTrader: (25)

where did you get this info?
can you post it?

shoemike

iTrader: (25)

i found this

edcmat-l1

iTrader: (10)

Sorry I dipped in and then left ya'll hanging

Specifically, 42 lb. SVOs. Green tops. Set the IFR per the injector calculator, drop the min pulse in the smaller motors SOMETIMES, strokers NEVER, and have never had a problem.

Now, on the 60s and up, I've fought with them. Especially on smaller motors. Seems awfully hard to get them to idle @ 1 millisecond, without either being too rich, negative fuel trims in the double digits, or have a fluctuating idle from trying to keep them trimmed to less that 1 ms.

kenp

iTrader: (9)

I don't remember for certain where I got it but here it is:

Delphi / Lucas
42 lb / hr. '009' Disc Injectors
Part Number Delphi 01D030B (Lucas old 5208009, Lucas New 621031)
Static Flow Rate: 42.29 lb/hr @ 43.5PSI (300kPa) or 320gm/min
Dynamic Flow Rate: 9.96 gm/pulse - 2.5ms pulse width and 10ms repetition rate
Coil Resistance: 15.9 Ohms / High Impedance / High-Z (No ECM driver modifications required)
Additional Information:
Top feed disc injectors use a small disc with six holes around its circumference. The disc rests on a short chimney that surrounds a metering hole. As the disc is raised off the chimney by magnetic force, fuel flows through the holes in the disc, over the walls of the chimney, and out the metering hole to form a full, finely atomized cone.
Performance advantages over pintle injectors (i.e. Ford / Bosch & Accel types) as listed by Delphi:
• The flat mating surface ensures that no excess fuel is present to evaporate and therefore, no deposits or clogging can occur.
• Compatible with alternative fuels (i.e. Methanol)
• Longer service life
• High-speed disc action allows wider dynamic flow range for improved idling
• Quieter operation
• Revolutionary disc design resists build up deposits which can affect fuel flow.
• No Fuel leakage for quicker starts

Part Number 01D030B (Lucas old 5208009, Lucas New 621031, Delphi old D3181AA)
All tests run with n-Heptane @ 20oC (+/-1oC), 3.0 Bar (+/-0.01 Bar), 14VDC (+/-0.05VDC), saturated driver with RC cutoff
Static Flow Rate: 42.29 lb/hr (+/-4%)
Dynamic Flow @ 2.5ms PW @ 100Hz: 9.96 mg/pulse (+/-6%)
Coil Resistance: 15.9 Ohms (+/-0.35 Ohms) (This high-impedance injector will work with all factory ECM/PCM injector drivers)
Spray Pattern: Tri-Cone
Physical Dimensions: EV1 Body Type
Connector: Minitimer (Bosch EV1)
Factory fitted with Viton upper and lower o-rings.
Note: Injector flow rates are based on testing with n-Heptane test solvent (0.6855 g/ml). U.S. EPA emission test gasoline 40CFR86.113 (0.735g/ml) flows in most common injector designs at about a 3 to 4% higher rate than n-Heptane. A ratio of 1.035:1 can be used when converting the flow specifications above.
TYPICAL APPLICATIONS: High-performance, replacement for Ford/Bosch M-9593-F302(F), M9593-F304(F)
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION:
Top feed disc injectors use a small disc with six holes around its circumference. The disc rests on a short chimney that surrounds a metering hole. As the disc is raised off the chimney by magnetic force, fuel flows through the holes in the disc, over the walls of the chimney, and out the metering hole to form a full, finely atomized cone.
Performance advantages over pintle injectors (i.e. Ford / Bosch & Accel types) as listed by Delphi:
• The flat mating surface ensures that no excess fuel is present to evaporate and therefore, no deposits or clogging can occur.
• Compatible with alternative fuels (i.e. E85, Methanol)
• Longer service life
• High-speed disc action allows wider dynamic flow range for improved idling
• Quieter operation
• Revolutionary disc design resists build up deposits which can affect fuel flow.
• No Fuel leakage for quicker starts
42.29 x 1.035 = 43.77lb/hr @ 43.5 psi & 14 volts

Slowhawk

iTrader: (12)

I agree with Ed. We try to only use SVO 42's (for 42's) and never have a problem tuning idle.Some cars need the minumul pulse width lowered but not all.
Motron 60's are pretty much the same.

If you want fun tune in a 96lb injector.Truck computers adapt easy while Vette's need alot of work to idle 14.7-1 but very doable.