Racetronix pump emptying fuel bucket?
08-14-2017, 02:48 PM
#1
Racetronix pump emptying fuel bucket? I recently pulled my fuel tank to replace the old style power connector with the new style bulkhead. I noticed when I hot wired the pump to test and empty the tank that the pump only works well for a few seconds then the pitch changes and it slows way down. Sounds like the bucket is emptying. All the hoses including the venturi feed hose looked fine. Is this normal for the Racetronix F99 kit? My only guesses right now is something is wrong with my venturi, or the bucket intake sock is a restriction. It does look pretty small, but was the one included in the kit.
08-22-2017, 07:57 AM
#3
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (96)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Posts: 24,240
Likes: 0
Received 79 Likes
on
70 Posts
It is not supposed to pull fuel from the bucket. It returns fuel to the bucket to keep the pump cool and should pull fuel through a hole in the bottom of the bucket which is pulling from the fuel tank itself. Bucket should stay full at all times with the pump running.
08-22-2017, 12:50 PM
#4
The Racetronix pump doesn't cut a hole in the bottom of the bucket, and has a sock on the bottom of the pump that sits inside the bucket, so doesn't directly pull from the tank. The bucket also has a smaller sock on the bottom of it. I'm just going to reinstall my fuel pressure gauge and watch it for a bit to see if my pressure has time to drop with a less than full tank. I know for just short 100% throttle pulls it was fine when I first installed it, probably isn't meant for longer heavy loads, being a stock fitting replacement. I was hoping someone knew if this was normal or not for this kit.
08-22-2017, 01:15 PM
#5
It is not normal. Sometimes the venturi valve in the module can become clogged or the fitting on the pump can also. We have seen issues with the venturi line kinking. We have them on hand. If it kinks once, it will want to kink at that spot again. I usually compress the module outside the tank then use a hair dryer or heat gun to set the position on the line.
Hope that helps!
Hope that helps!
08-22-2017, 01:29 PM
#6
I know the line isn't kinked and is still securely attached, first thing I checked. I know at least some gas is flowing through it, because I can see some bubbles when the bucket emptied. I'll have to tear it apart and see if there's any way to clean out the venturi itself, hopefully I won't have to buy a new module just to swap my racetronix pump in it! Thanks for the input.
Trending Topics
08-22-2017, 02:21 PM
#8
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (96)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Posts: 24,240
Likes: 0
Received 79 Likes
on
70 Posts
The Racetronix pump doesn't cut a hole in the bottom of the bucket, and has a sock on the bottom of the pump that sits inside the bucket, so doesn't directly pull from the tank. The bucket also has a smaller sock on the bottom of it. I'm just going to reinstall my fuel pressure gauge and watch it for a bit to see if my pressure has time to drop with a less than full tank. I know for just short 100% throttle pulls it was fine when I first installed it, probably isn't meant for longer heavy loads, being a stock fitting replacement. I was hoping someone knew if this was normal or not for this kit.
It pulls fuel FROM THE TANK! Outside of the bucket sir.
08-22-2017, 02:29 PM
#9
It actually appears op is right.
It appers the bottom sock actually feeds the venturi system and the bottom internal sock on the pump filters the fuel that feeds the pump. There are 2 valves in the bottom of the pump. One is a check valve to keep fuel in the module to feed the pump and the other is the venturi valve. If the bottom sock was open to the internal assy the module would never fill up.
Per Racetronix
The 1999 & up LS1 F-body cars have a pump that is inside a plastic fill-bucket. The fill-bucket is equipped with two inlets on the bottom. The equalization checkvalve is used to fill the bucket when the level of fuel in the tank is greater than in the bucket. The equalization checkvalve does not allow fuel to exit the bucket. The venturi system's inlet is a combination checkvalve and powered suction system. The factory pump supplies pressurized fuel via a small tube which feeds a calibrated jet inside the venturi system. This jet of fuel shoots across the base of the checkvalve inlet thereby creating a suction effect which draws more fuel from the bottom of the tank through the filter sock. This venturi system keeps the bucket full all the time even when the fuel tank is almost empty. A full bucket keeps the pump immersed in fuel regardless of the tank level so that when the tank is low on gas and you are doing some hard cornering or acceleration the pump does not run dry and start aerating (air bubbles) the fuel. This happens as the fuel sloshes from side to side in the tank leaving the center low on fuel. This can cause detonation and possible engine damage. The 99+ F-LS1 cars with plastic tanks have no baffling in them so the bucket is very important. The bucket also allows the car to operate with lower fuel levels in the tank due to its scavenging effect. The fill-bucket improves motor crank-to-run time as the priming time is reduced under most conditions. The return line feeds the pressure regulator on the fuel module which diverts fuel back into the bucket so that the unused fuel also helps keep it full at all times. Keeping the pump constantly immersed in gas within the bucket can extend the pump's life by not allowing it to be exposed to open air. Open air within the tank contains moisture and in time will cause the pump to rust / seize up especially if left to sit for long periods of time without the tank topped-up (i.e. winter storage).
It appers the bottom sock actually feeds the venturi system and the bottom internal sock on the pump filters the fuel that feeds the pump. There are 2 valves in the bottom of the pump. One is a check valve to keep fuel in the module to feed the pump and the other is the venturi valve. If the bottom sock was open to the internal assy the module would never fill up.
Per Racetronix
The 1999 & up LS1 F-body cars have a pump that is inside a plastic fill-bucket. The fill-bucket is equipped with two inlets on the bottom. The equalization checkvalve is used to fill the bucket when the level of fuel in the tank is greater than in the bucket. The equalization checkvalve does not allow fuel to exit the bucket. The venturi system's inlet is a combination checkvalve and powered suction system. The factory pump supplies pressurized fuel via a small tube which feeds a calibrated jet inside the venturi system. This jet of fuel shoots across the base of the checkvalve inlet thereby creating a suction effect which draws more fuel from the bottom of the tank through the filter sock. This venturi system keeps the bucket full all the time even when the fuel tank is almost empty. A full bucket keeps the pump immersed in fuel regardless of the tank level so that when the tank is low on gas and you are doing some hard cornering or acceleration the pump does not run dry and start aerating (air bubbles) the fuel. This happens as the fuel sloshes from side to side in the tank leaving the center low on fuel. This can cause detonation and possible engine damage. The 99+ F-LS1 cars with plastic tanks have no baffling in them so the bucket is very important. The bucket also allows the car to operate with lower fuel levels in the tank due to its scavenging effect. The fill-bucket improves motor crank-to-run time as the priming time is reduced under most conditions. The return line feeds the pressure regulator on the fuel module which diverts fuel back into the bucket so that the unused fuel also helps keep it full at all times. Keeping the pump constantly immersed in gas within the bucket can extend the pump's life by not allowing it to be exposed to open air. Open air within the tank contains moisture and in time will cause the pump to rust / seize up especially if left to sit for long periods of time without the tank topped-up (i.e. winter storage).
08-22-2017, 02:35 PM
#10
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (96)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Posts: 24,240
Likes: 0
Received 79 Likes
on
70 Posts
This venturi system keeps the bucket full all the time even when the fuel tank is almost empty.
Thats all that matters in that whole statement. The bucket should be FULL, because it is pulling fuel from the tank.
Sounds like the bucket is emptying.
Then your pump is fucked, or there is something wrong in your bucket, you dont know how to install a fuel pump correctly or your diagnosis is wrong. I was just stating the obvious that the bucket should be full, otherwise what point is the bucket!!!!!
Thats all that matters in that whole statement. The bucket should be FULL, because it is pulling fuel from the tank.
Sounds like the bucket is emptying.
Then your pump is fucked, or there is something wrong in your bucket, you dont know how to install a fuel pump correctly or your diagnosis is wrong. I was just stating the obvious that the bucket should be full, otherwise what point is the bucket!!!!!
08-22-2017, 02:39 PM
#11
No need to be so upset. You cuss him out, and he is right. It could actually be a clogged venturi valve, or a collapsed or clogged bottom fuel pump module sock or pathway to the venturi valve. There is no need to further insult him for no reason.
The bucket should not be full still if the venturi is not working correctly. The second small rubber one way valve does allow fuel in also, but nowhere near the rate of the venturi and it only equalizes the level to the level outside the pump in the tank. That valve alone cannot fill the module unless the fuel outside were at the same height in the tank. Otherwise its only equal inside and out. Since that small valve will not let fuel in quickly, it it necessary for the venturi to work to keep fuel provided to the pump.
The bucket should not be full still if the venturi is not working correctly. The second small rubber one way valve does allow fuel in also, but nowhere near the rate of the venturi and it only equalizes the level to the level outside the pump in the tank. That valve alone cannot fill the module unless the fuel outside were at the same height in the tank. Otherwise its only equal inside and out. Since that small valve will not let fuel in quickly, it it necessary for the venturi to work to keep fuel provided to the pump.
Last edited by tech@WS6store; 08-22-2017 at 02:44 PM.
08-22-2017, 02:47 PM
#13
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (96)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Posts: 24,240
Likes: 0
Received 79 Likes
on
70 Posts
No need to be so upset. You cuss him out, and he is right. It could actually be a clogged venturi valve, or a collapsed or clogged bottom fuel pump module sock or pathway to the venturi valve. There is no need to further insult him for no reason.
The bucket should not be full still if the venturi is not working correctly. The second small rubber one way valve does allow fuel in also, but nowhere near the rate of the venturi and it only equalizes the level to the level outside the pump in the tank. That valve alone cannot fill the module unless the fuel outside were at the same height in the tank. Otherwise its only equal inside and out. Since that small valve will not let fuel in quickly, it it necessary for the venturi to work to keep fuel provided to the pump.
The bucket should not be full still if the venturi is not working correctly. The second small rubber one way valve does allow fuel in also, but nowhere near the rate of the venturi and it only equalizes the level to the level outside the pump in the tank. That valve alone cannot fill the module unless the fuel outside were at the same height in the tank. Otherwise its only equal inside and out. Since that small valve will not let fuel in quickly, it it necessary for the venturi to work to keep fuel provided to the pump.
Sounds like the bucket is emptying. All the hoses including the venturi feed hose looked fine. Is this normal for the Racetronix F99 kit?
Thats the specific question i was answering, in case you very obviously missed it.
08-22-2017, 02:53 PM
#14
You stated in your first post that the fuel pump doesn't pull fuel from inside the bucket, so obviously you don't know what you're talking about with a non-modified fuel bucket. Now you are insulting me by trying to say I don't know that the fuel bucket being empty is wrong. You missed the point, you were wrong, thanks anyway for trying to help!
08-22-2017, 03:01 PM
#15
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (96)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Posts: 24,240
Likes: 0
Received 79 Likes
on
70 Posts
You stated in your first post that the fuel pump doesn't pull fuel from inside the bucket, so obviously you don't know what you're talking about with a non-modified fuel bucket. Now you are insulting me by trying to say I don't know that the fuel bucket being empty is wrong. You missed the point, you were wrong, thanks anyway for trying to help!
08-22-2017, 03:48 PM
#18
No one is trying to argue. You did cuss him out and call him stupid etc more than once and bash his competence when you were clearly wrong. Im not arguing with you. I stated fact and even showed what racetronix shows as operation of the venturi.
I do not have pictures.
Most of the time we have customers test them in a 5gal bucket of fuel to see if they are leaking etc. All you have to do to bypass all of that is remove the hose from the venturi valve and put it in a separate small container of fuel like a used water bottle. Its simple. The hose is not long enough to reach into the 5gal bucket itself but if you sub a longer tube you could do that also.
A few customers have sent us video off youtube i think of them verifying pump operation and no leaks.
Here is the to that. It shows exactly what op is talking about.
We have tackled issues like this a few times this year.
A few were bad fuel pressure regulators/fpr housings. One was a bad check valve on pump. 2 or 3 were fuel connections leaking internally. 2 were issues with venturi system that we replaced which entire modules as they were under wnty and 1 was an actual bad pump.
Tha is why we released the corvette fuel filter/reg assy swap to help with some of those issues.
I do not have pictures.
Most of the time we have customers test them in a 5gal bucket of fuel to see if they are leaking etc. All you have to do to bypass all of that is remove the hose from the venturi valve and put it in a separate small container of fuel like a used water bottle. Its simple. The hose is not long enough to reach into the 5gal bucket itself but if you sub a longer tube you could do that also.
A few customers have sent us video off youtube i think of them verifying pump operation and no leaks.
Here is the
We have tackled issues like this a few times this year.
A few were bad fuel pressure regulators/fpr housings. One was a bad check valve on pump. 2 or 3 were fuel connections leaking internally. 2 were issues with venturi system that we replaced which entire modules as they were under wnty and 1 was an actual bad pump.
Tha is why we released the corvette fuel filter/reg assy swap to help with some of those issues.
08-22-2017, 04:02 PM
#19
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (96)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Posts: 24,240
Likes: 0
Received 79 Likes
on
70 Posts
If his diagnosis is correct then what is happening in the video seems to be what he is experiencing also. And I never called him stupid, maybe this was his first fuel pump install and something was done incorrectly, jeez how the heck should i (or you) know??? Questioning that is not the equivalent of calling someone stupid, its examining ALL possibilities, including installer error. You as a vendor's helper have no experience with that? I find that impossible.
08-22-2017, 04:27 PM
#20
He knew what he was talking about. You were incorrect and resort to cursing him out about it. How is there any discussion about that?
I have seen many issues with fuel pump installs and fixed them and answered many tech calls about them also. The first course of action is not blame the customer though nor bring their technical knowledge into question. Verify the part is operating correctly first. Insulting them or cursing at them doesnt help. Since you did not know how the module works it went downhill from there. You do now it seems, but hind sight is always 20/20 i guess.
I have seen many issues with fuel pump installs and fixed them and answered many tech calls about them also. The first course of action is not blame the customer though nor bring their technical knowledge into question. Verify the part is operating correctly first. Insulting them or cursing at them doesnt help. Since you did not know how the module works it went downhill from there. You do now it seems, but hind sight is always 20/20 i guess.