LS1 owners have anything to fear?
01-18-2009, 11:20 PM
#41
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No offense, but now you're being HELLA optimistic. There's no way it's happening unless you pull ALOT of weight out of the car, and I don't see you being able to pull several hundred lbs out without gutting the car almost completely. This isn't an LSX motor we're talking about here, remember. Don't let the 300hp figure confuse you.......this is STILL an NA V6 in a 3700+lb car.
Initial fuel/air bolt-ons (intake/tune) will show the biggest NA gains possible right off the bat. After that, getting gains on motor alone with get harder. Cams probably won't net you enough to talk about unless you're doing a full race high rpm build (and it won't be cheap).....and even then, you're still lacking the torque to get the thing up and moving. Gears will probably help out the best next to the intake/tune, along with some grippy tires. But all in all, I still don't see these things being impressive without nitrous or forced induction. Sorry, JMO.
I'm not knocking the base 5th gen....it's gonna be a solid car for the money. But any bolt-on sixxer 5th gen with delusions of grandeur are gonna find themselves in over their head if they go around looking to mess with every V8 ponycar they come across on the road.
Initial fuel/air bolt-ons (intake/tune) will show the biggest NA gains possible right off the bat. After that, getting gains on motor alone with get harder. Cams probably won't net you enough to talk about unless you're doing a full race high rpm build (and it won't be cheap).....and even then, you're still lacking the torque to get the thing up and moving. Gears will probably help out the best next to the intake/tune, along with some grippy tires. But all in all, I still don't see these things being impressive without nitrous or forced induction. Sorry, JMO.
I'm not knocking the base 5th gen....it's gonna be a solid car for the money. But any bolt-on sixxer 5th gen with delusions of grandeur are gonna find themselves in over their head if they go around looking to mess with every V8 ponycar they come across on the road.
with that said..
there is a local car in my area... full bolt on, stalled, cammed 3.8 camaro with a little weight taken out running low 8s (8.2-3s), and that was in the heat untuned.. im sure with a tune and some good weather he would easily see at least a 8.0, possibly better.. but thats bench racing..
now, with that said.. the new camaro will have about 75 or so more HP that the 4th gen v6s.. a little more weight.. but even with the weight, they WILL be faster.. put the same things in the 5th gen and that should be good for some mid-high (more high) 7s.. which would be good for a mid 12 pass..
i think it is VERY possible..
01-19-2009, 12:40 AM
#42
a full bolt on 5th gen V6 will not run mid 12's. the LS1 4th gen with full bolt ons barely does that with a normal driver.
and since when does empty weight matter in bench racing? were talking about race weight. the v6 5th gen weighs a good 400 lbs more than the 4th gen LS1 with about 40 less HP. you do the math...
and since when does empty weight matter in bench racing? were talking about race weight. the v6 5th gen weighs a good 400 lbs more than the 4th gen LS1 with about 40 less HP. you do the math...
01-19-2009, 12:44 AM
#43
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a full bolt on 5th gen V6 will not run mid 12's. the LS1 4th gen with full bolt ons barely does that with a normal driver.
and since when does empty weight matter in bench racing? were talking about race weight. the v6 5th gen weighs a good 400 lbs more than the 4th gen LS1 with about 40 less HP. you do the math...
and since when does empty weight matter in bench racing? were talking about race weight. the v6 5th gen weighs a good 400 lbs more than the 4th gen LS1 with about 40 less HP. you do the math...
an A4 properly built full bolt on car will run much faster than mid 12s..
in bench racing... doesnt anything go?
didnt know there were "rules"
01-19-2009, 09:47 AM
#46
It should be noted in the same reviews where an LS1 pulls off those 0-60 times they also ran high 13s in the 1/4... I have to wonder if they even know how to drive.
Food for thought....
If the LS1 Camaro runs in the 5s 0-60 does that mean the new Camaro SS is all low end performance and has no top end compared to an LS1 car?
The 2001-2002 SS had some good performance stats and was claimed good for 0-60 in 5.3 seconds, 1/4 mile in 13.7 seconds @ 105.6 mph.
Food for thought....
Chevy's Camaro SS outfitted with the 422-hp 6.2-liter LS3 V8 six-speed manual hits 60 mph in 4.9 seconds and runs a 13.4-second quarter-mile at 108 mph according to Oppenheiser.
Oppenheiser also claims that the automatic-equipped SS Camaro, which is rated at 400 hp, runs from zero to 60 mph in just 4.6 seconds and through the quarter-mile in 13.3 seconds. "We optimized the shift points," he said.
Last edited by S8ER95Z; 01-19-2009 at 09:52 AM.
01-19-2009, 04:23 PM
#47
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there is a local car in my area... full bolt on, stalled, cammed 3.8 camaro with a little weight taken out running low 8s (8.2-3s), and that was in the heat untuned.. im sure with a tune and some good weather he would easily see at least a 8.0, possibly better.. but thats bench racing..
now, with that said.. the new camaro will have about 75 or so more HP that the 4th gen v6s.. a little more weight.. but even with the weight, they WILL be faster.. put the same things in the 5th gen and that should be good for some mid-high (more high) 7s.. which would be good for a mid 12 pass..
i think it is VERY possible..
01-19-2009, 04:58 PM
#48
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Are you guys serious? I think the v8 will be a good run with an ls1 4th gen, look at the challengers they were rated at low 13's and thats what most people run in them..if that. I saw somewhere that the v6 was suppose to run mid 14's..so maybe a good race with an auto lt1. Im not worried about the 5th gens or even challengers..i wish ford would put power in their gt without adding weight and they'd have the car to beat. It's sad the g8 runs as good as these 2 door pigs.
01-19-2009, 05:46 PM
#49
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I don't like to bench race either, but I don't know if I'd compare GM's ole 3.8 to this new DI motor. The 3.8 was a rather torquey pushrod design, as opposed to this hi-strung DOHC 3.6. Plus there's a 400 lb weight difference between the 4th and 5th gen sixxers....that's not unsubstantial. I've seen my fair share of impressively modded GM 3.8's, and I just don't see this 3.6 recreating those kinds of results......at least not in this car. But you are right, it's all speculation until ppl start doing the work and going to the track. So...we'll see.
i know the 3.8s can be impressive..
i wont be doing ANY work on the 5th gens.. at least not one titled with my name on it.. haha
01-19-2009, 07:02 PM
#50
i don't worry about the V6 OR the V8. It's gonna take some mods to those cars to get them to compete with a car that has less power and less weight. The V8 cars are gonna have problems with moderatly modded LS1's beatin' the crap outta them. Better yet i can't WAIT for some ****** to get next to me at a light and think he's gonna put the beat down on ME because his new camaro is rated at 422hp
I LOVE the new Camaro though so i'd feel bad for the CAR that the OWNER is an idiot This happened to me against a new Challenger. He thought it was the hottest thing on the street. Wanted to race a 50mph roll so we did. Put 4.5-5 cars on him by 115-120. He didn't talk much sh*t afterwards. He kept giving me the "Oh that's only a C5 and it's 10 years old already" job jab beforehand. i was thinking about what his point was. His car is brand new and looks like a car from the '70's i like the retro look to a point but all these cars doing it, including the Camaro, is getting stupid. I would still like one but wish they had went to a more futuristic look then the retro.
I LOVE the new Camaro though so i'd feel bad for the CAR that the OWNER is an idiot This happened to me against a new Challenger. He thought it was the hottest thing on the street. Wanted to race a 50mph roll so we did. Put 4.5-5 cars on him by 115-120. He didn't talk much sh*t afterwards. He kept giving me the "Oh that's only a C5 and it's 10 years old already" job jab beforehand. i was thinking about what his point was. His car is brand new and looks like a car from the '70's i like the retro look to a point but all these cars doing it, including the Camaro, is getting stupid. I would still like one but wish they had went to a more futuristic look then the retro. Last edited by Cole Train; 01-19-2009 at 07:12 PM.
01-19-2009, 09:55 PM
#52
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^^^^ i was about to tell you to not get TOO cocky, there will be some stout ones.. i think it will take a few years to see them regularly.. the prices for aftermarket will be too high at first.. but they should drop pretty quickly.
01-19-2009, 11:58 PM
#53
not cocky, i think it's a great lookin' car i'm saying that the weight is a big thing and also there will be alot of stock guys running around when they first get them thinking they are the cats meow. They are gonna be GREAT once mods come and aren't a fortune.
01-20-2009, 02:42 PM
#54
and since when does empty weight matter in bench racing? were talking about race weight. the v6 5th gen weighs a good 400 lbs more than the 4th gen LS1 with about 40 less HP. you do the math...
01-20-2009, 02:48 PM
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01-20-2009, 03:57 PM
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Only thing that really matters is that the heavier the car gets, the bigger a drag on performance it will experience.
01-20-2009, 04:00 PM
#57
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thats what we are saying.. doesnt matter.. as long as the drivers are the same weight.. doesnt matter if you put in 1,000 extra pounds in the car... or take out 400 pounds from the factory weight... they still have the same weight difference between the two..
01-20-2009, 04:47 PM
#58
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A stock 3.8 V6 auto 4G would typically run 14.7 stock, average was probably closer to 14.9-15.1 from what I remember.
Now a new V6 5G auto might run faster than that, maybe low 14's, but maybe mid 14's.
A new 4G V8 auto could run 13.4, maybe a 13.2 or so. I personally saw a best of 13.1@107 for a low option 99 SS M6 back in 2000 in some nice air. Remember Evan went 12.98 in the GMHTP test.
Shouldn't be hard to get a new 5G V6 to run mid to high 13's with bolt-ons and that's very impressive.
Remember a bolt-on 4G auto can easily run 12.2@110 or so with just a little weight reduction, so a 5G auto should run high 11's or better. I'm predicting 12.7@110 for the 5G auto in the hands of someone who takes the time to try to hit it, and 11.5@118 with some weight reduction, and full bolt-ons but NO camwork or headwork.
Now a new V6 5G auto might run faster than that, maybe low 14's, but maybe mid 14's.
A new 4G V8 auto could run 13.4, maybe a 13.2 or so. I personally saw a best of 13.1@107 for a low option 99 SS M6 back in 2000 in some nice air. Remember Evan went 12.98 in the GMHTP test.
Shouldn't be hard to get a new 5G V6 to run mid to high 13's with bolt-ons and that's very impressive.
Remember a bolt-on 4G auto can easily run 12.2@110 or so with just a little weight reduction, so a 5G auto should run high 11's or better. I'm predicting 12.7@110 for the 5G auto in the hands of someone who takes the time to try to hit it, and 11.5@118 with some weight reduction, and full bolt-ons but NO camwork or headwork.
01-20-2009, 05:29 PM
#60
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I think the 370z will be a very interesting competitor for the ls1, stock for stock anyway, I'd be curious to see which car gets the better numbers stock for stock and how close it is. When you get into modding though, heads/cam ls1 is tough to beat, nevermind a little spray.
The v6 camaro though...I don't think so, what ever slim chance it had to be somewhat close with the power figure's it lost because of the huge weight difference.
The v6 camaro though...I don't think so, what ever slim chance it had to be somewhat close with the power figure's it lost because of the huge weight difference.