More engine rumors.........
03-19-2008, 05:38 PM
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More engine rumors......... Just some info I found on another forum today. If it's a repost mods please delete it.
TJ
TJ
NEW YORK -- General Motors is considering a four-cylinder engine for the new Chevrolet Camaro as a response to rising fuel prices.
Speaking on the sidelines of the New York auto show, GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said the drivetrain under consideration for the Camaro is the same high-performance one used in the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky roadsters. It’s a 2.0-liter turbocharged, direct-injected four-cylinder rated at 260 hp. Lutz said that if fuel prices continue to climb, the four-cylinder Camaro could see production.
GM has said it plans V8 and V6 versions of the Camaro but otherwise has been secretive. Lutz confirmed that the V6 version of the Camaro will be powered by the same high-tech V6 used in the Cadillac CTS. It’s a direct-injected, 3.6-liter four-cam V6. In the CTS, the engine is rated at 304 hp.
Low-priced version dropped
In the Camaro, the 3.6 liter’s horsepower should be around 260, Lutz said, Fuel economy, he said, will be around 17 mpg city and 25 highway. That would place the V6 Camaro among best in class for a performance car.
Lutz said GM has dropped plans to offer a low-priced, entry-level Camaro with one of GM’s low-tech V6s. GM will position both the V6 and V8 versions of the Camaro as premium cars compared to the Camaro’s chief rival, the Ford Mustang.
The base model Mustang uses a 4.0-liter overhead-cam V6 rated at 210 hp. The base model Dodge Challenger, due in the fall, will use a 250-hp, 3.5-liter V6.
Most enthusiast attention has focused on the Camaro’s V8 engine, which is likely to be a 6.0-liter with about 400 hp. Lutz said the V8 will have a cylinder cutoff system that shuts down half the engine when the car reaches cruising speed. That will help it get better fuel economy.
But Lutz said he thinks most buyers will opt for the V6 because the performance will be strong, especially when the engine is combined with a manual transmission.
“Back in the old days, if you wanted a muscle car, to get a decent one, you had to buy the V8,” Lutz said. “And if you bought the V6, you got a fairly rough, unrefined pushrod engine with low horsepower and weasely performance.
“This time, the V6 is 260-odd horsepower, four overhead cams, very smooth and decent 0-to-60-mph times. And now the V6 is in its own right a very fast, very legitimate car.”
'We are going to be above Mustang'
Lutz said that with the V6, the Camaro achieves a nearly perfect 50-50 weight distribution: “With the V6, it is not a heavy car. The Camaro will be a very lively and engaging car,” he said.
Lutz would not talk specifically about the Camaro’s pricing. The car is scheduled to go on sale next February as a 2009 (?) model, but Lutz did say GM views the Camaro as better equipped than the Mustang, and the price will be higher.
The Mustang V6 coupe has a base price of $20,235. The V8 GT coupe begins at $26,825. Both prices include shipping.
“We are going to be above Mustang,” Lutz said. “We have a very sophisticated suspension system and, frankly, a much nicer interior. We are not going to try and match the Mustang on price. We are going to be premium-priced compared to the Mustang.”
Speaking on the sidelines of the New York auto show, GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said the drivetrain under consideration for the Camaro is the same high-performance one used in the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky roadsters. It’s a 2.0-liter turbocharged, direct-injected four-cylinder rated at 260 hp. Lutz said that if fuel prices continue to climb, the four-cylinder Camaro could see production.
GM has said it plans V8 and V6 versions of the Camaro but otherwise has been secretive. Lutz confirmed that the V6 version of the Camaro will be powered by the same high-tech V6 used in the Cadillac CTS. It’s a direct-injected, 3.6-liter four-cam V6. In the CTS, the engine is rated at 304 hp.
Low-priced version dropped
In the Camaro, the 3.6 liter’s horsepower should be around 260, Lutz said, Fuel economy, he said, will be around 17 mpg city and 25 highway. That would place the V6 Camaro among best in class for a performance car.
Lutz said GM has dropped plans to offer a low-priced, entry-level Camaro with one of GM’s low-tech V6s. GM will position both the V6 and V8 versions of the Camaro as premium cars compared to the Camaro’s chief rival, the Ford Mustang.
The base model Mustang uses a 4.0-liter overhead-cam V6 rated at 210 hp. The base model Dodge Challenger, due in the fall, will use a 250-hp, 3.5-liter V6.
Most enthusiast attention has focused on the Camaro’s V8 engine, which is likely to be a 6.0-liter with about 400 hp. Lutz said the V8 will have a cylinder cutoff system that shuts down half the engine when the car reaches cruising speed. That will help it get better fuel economy.
But Lutz said he thinks most buyers will opt for the V6 because the performance will be strong, especially when the engine is combined with a manual transmission.
“Back in the old days, if you wanted a muscle car, to get a decent one, you had to buy the V8,” Lutz said. “And if you bought the V6, you got a fairly rough, unrefined pushrod engine with low horsepower and weasely performance.
“This time, the V6 is 260-odd horsepower, four overhead cams, very smooth and decent 0-to-60-mph times. And now the V6 is in its own right a very fast, very legitimate car.”
'We are going to be above Mustang'
Lutz said that with the V6, the Camaro achieves a nearly perfect 50-50 weight distribution: “With the V6, it is not a heavy car. The Camaro will be a very lively and engaging car,” he said.
Lutz would not talk specifically about the Camaro’s pricing. The car is scheduled to go on sale next February as a 2009 (?) model, but Lutz did say GM views the Camaro as better equipped than the Mustang, and the price will be higher.
The Mustang V6 coupe has a base price of $20,235. The V8 GT coupe begins at $26,825. Both prices include shipping.
“We are going to be above Mustang,” Lutz said. “We have a very sophisticated suspension system and, frankly, a much nicer interior. We are not going to try and match the Mustang on price. We are going to be premium-priced compared to the Mustang.”
03-19-2008, 06:25 PM
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"We are not going to try and match the Mustang on price. We are going to be premium-priced compared to the Mustang.” There it is, the setup for the overpricing of the Camaro, and its inevitable failure to stay in production. Gotta love GM.
03-19-2008, 09:08 PM
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I agree. If they're not going to try t match the 23-34k for a Base to Premium Mustang GT, they're going to lose a lot of money. I'm not paying over 25 for a V6 of any power, and nothing over 32 for a well performing V8 in a Camaro. 38-42 for SS and Z28, sure, but for a base V8.. Pricing it over 32 is stupid. Say hello to the last two or three years of Camaro, folks.
03-19-2008, 11:12 PM
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I don't know if any of this is true or not. It's just something someone else posted on another forum. So who knows.........You know the way it goes with the stuff we read on the internet. I wouldn't take this as official news yet.
TJ
TJ
03-19-2008, 11:40 PM
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Since quoting sources is of vital importance, and I cannot believe anyone would post something like this without doing so, here is the original article:
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../86927553/1024
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../86927553/1024
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03-20-2008, 03:04 AM
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personally i already dont like the fact that gm is trying to revive the camaro with this retro style...its a cool idea but compared to all the other camaro's it sticks out way too much, to me it seems like its ruining a legacy but thats just my .02 cents...oh and if i see a 4 cylinder camaro...ill personally **** on gm haha...anyone feel the same way??
03-20-2008, 04:14 AM
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You're right. It does bring a lot of drama. Because it means a lot to a bunch of different people. To me, it's a symbol of affordable American muscle. When they run it over 30k for a base V8, it gets rediculos. When they put a 4 cylinder in American Muscle sheet metal, they betray us.
03-20-2008, 11:34 AM
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I knew I would not be the only one to think that. Premium priced....when you see that just think "it will in no way be competitively priced compared to the Mustang. We are GM, this is the Camaro. If the masses want it they are just going to have to pay a huge amount more than any competitive car. If nobody buys it because we have our heads up our ***, the second and final death of the Camaro can be fully blamed on the public."
03-20-2008, 11:48 AM
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I think a T-4 is a good idea. Look what the turbo Ecotech (<--sp?) motor is doing in Solstice/Sky and the upcoming Colbalt SS. Its very efficient, easy to mod, light-weight and puts out decent numbers to boot. Im not saying its the end-all be-all of motors, and I'll most likely buy a V8, but you have to consider the economics of GM's choice for a turbo-4:
If most of the f-bodys are NOT the V8 model, then it's obvious that a lot of people will buy this car for looks, statement, and a little bit of pep when they mash the gas, not to rule the streets. Why do people buy V6 mustangs/camaros when they can get so much more power from the V8? Whatever the reason the consumer chooses to buy the base version Camaro for, the important thing for GM is that the consumer actually bought one. For THOSE people, who dont need/want LS3 power (imagine a 16-yr old who's first car will be an LS3-powered monster!!), a T4 with the same hp as a V6 but happens to be lighter/easier on the wallet is a VERY good idea.
I've driven a couple of "ricey 4-banger turbos"... Smooth delivery of power, comfy, and still a little bit of fun. Besides, think of all the import-tuners who they'll bring back to GM show-room floors with a motor like this.
If most of the f-bodys are NOT the V8 model, then it's obvious that a lot of people will buy this car for looks, statement, and a little bit of pep when they mash the gas, not to rule the streets. Why do people buy V6 mustangs/camaros when they can get so much more power from the V8? Whatever the reason the consumer chooses to buy the base version Camaro for, the important thing for GM is that the consumer actually bought one. For THOSE people, who dont need/want LS3 power (imagine a 16-yr old who's first car will be an LS3-powered monster!!), a T4 with the same hp as a V6 but happens to be lighter/easier on the wallet is a VERY good idea.
I've driven a couple of "ricey 4-banger turbos"... Smooth delivery of power, comfy, and still a little bit of fun. Besides, think of all the import-tuners who they'll bring back to GM show-room floors with a motor like this.
03-20-2008, 04:38 PM
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Almost seems as though they are really trying to make it work this time or kill it indefinitly. We all know these new CAFE standards have changed things a lot. But I can actually see people buying a camaro with a T4. Gas prices and fuel economy will kill the platform if they don't offer up anything else that can perform in both economy and performance. Just another solution I suppose. But an LS3 with dispalcement on demand and varriable valve timing I would bet wouldn't be to far off to make any sense to me. Didn't they originally say that the camaro would be offered with a v8 and fuel economy of at least 30mpg's? Wow has that changed since now the v6 is expected to get 17 and 25!
