L99 and LS3
I shouldn't have to pay for a tune on a brand new car just to get it to run the way I like.
Camaro is a muscle car, not a liberal MPG car. DOD has no place in a Camaro. It's shameful, IMO. If I can't get an LS3 + A6, then the new Camaro is useless to me.
But for those of you that don't understand why I feel this way, then good luck with your new Camaro. I'll just move on to a C6.
Camaro is a muscle car, not a liberal MPG car. DOD has no place in a Camaro. It's shameful, IMO. If I can't get an LS3 + A6, then the new Camaro is useless to me.
But for those of you that don't understand why I feel this way, then good luck with your new Camaro. I'll just move on to a C6.
Last edited by Joel_SS; Jul 22, 2008 at 03:37 PM.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 34,627
Likes: 2,541
From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
this discusiion is stupid what a cry baby geeezzz the dod will not come on WOT anyway I'm sure there will be 6 speed so stop ur crying and even if they did not ..then it sounds like this guy is full of **** anyway.....somebody that truely loves the camaro will not let something as little as that stop them......i have that in my RT Magnum and u can never feel it.....this guy has never driven a car with it............i jate all these losers that are not real camaro owners that come on here and cry about stupid ****......when the car comes out it will be the best bang for the buck overall preformer like it has always been....i would not change a thing on it
So how am I not a "real" Camaro owner? I've got two right now. I'm one of the very few people that actually does love these cars. Everyone else bitches about the long doors, the long dash, long hood, the hump in the floor board, etc. I love that stuff...it's all part of the experiance. You know what's NOT supposed to be part of the Camaro experiance? DOD. It belongs on trucks and family sedans, not a ***** out muscle car. Period.
If that makes me a loser to you, then good. I wouldn't want someone with your opinions to like me anyway.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 34,627
Likes: 2,541
From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
Anyway, who said I'd buy a brand new C6? I'm sure I could pick up an '08 next summer for no more than $10k over the price of a new V8 Camaro.
this discusiion is stupid what a cry baby geeezzz the dod will not come on WOT anyway I'm sure there will be 6 speed so stop ur crying and even if they did not ..then it sounds like this guy is full of **** anyway.....somebody that truely loves the camaro will not let something as little as that stop them......i have that in my RT Magnum and u can never feel it.....this guy has never driven a car with it............i jate all these losers that are not real camaro owners that come on here and cry about stupid ****......when the car comes out it will be the best bang for the buck overall preformer like it has always been....i would not change a thing on it
Why the hell does it offend so many people that myself and others think DOD is worthless on this car and that we will not purchase one because of it? I don't give a damn if it can be disabled with a cam swap and tuning, that defeats the purpose of buying a new car. Who wants to spend $30k+ on a new car only to spend another $1000+ on a cam, springs, tuning, etc just to get it to preform like a stock M6? If I wanted to mod the hell out of a car, I'd do it to the Z28 I own now.
I guess I just don't understand why this offends so many people
Launching!
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
From: Chicago Suburbs
Im curious as to whats different as far as internals on the L99. Is anything different in order to make it run on less cylinders thats a big question I would say? Also it does kinda suck that the auto V8 cant have the LS3, something has to be different on these besides just a computer or code change?
I like the idea of DOD for a daily driver or even weekend cruiser. Thats more money saved in the bank for mods or other things instead of going to gas stations. I agree that its gotta be unoticeable, has for here in Chicago how often do you get to cruise at a steadt speed? Almost never anyway so it wont even be activated, but I would like to know the Internal differences of the LS3 AND L99 (pros, cons, strengths, weaknesses, reliability)
Thanks
I like the idea of DOD for a daily driver or even weekend cruiser. Thats more money saved in the bank for mods or other things instead of going to gas stations. I agree that its gotta be unoticeable, has for here in Chicago how often do you get to cruise at a steadt speed? Almost never anyway so it wont even be activated, but I would like to know the Internal differences of the LS3 AND L99 (pros, cons, strengths, weaknesses, reliability)
Thanks
I'm kinda with RPM on this, but was taken aback by the release of the 0-60 and 1/4 mile performance numbers. The A6 car is faster to 60 (4.6 vs 4.9 sec) and in the 1/4 (13.3 vs 13.4 sec). . Then I realized that hey, the gear ratios are kinda similar and a machine is shifting one of them that has a torque converter on the front.
I am also wondering what the actual difference in mechanical parts is between a n L99 and LS3 motor. I would guess the block and heads are the same, but what else is there to be different besides the cam?
I am also wondering what the actual difference in mechanical parts is between a n L99 and LS3 motor. I would guess the block and heads are the same, but what else is there to be different besides the cam?
It's kind of common knowledge that automatics are generally faster than manuals these days, all things being equal. Even going way back, automatics have been more consistent.
I think the differences between the L99 and the LS3 include camshaft and at least some engine hardware. I'm sure there are differences in longevity and reliability too, maybe not MAJOR, but why not let the car buyer decide what engine and transmission they want, instead of forcing it down their throats?
I think the differences between the L99 and the LS3 include camshaft and at least some engine hardware. I'm sure there are differences in longevity and reliability too, maybe not MAJOR, but why not let the car buyer decide what engine and transmission they want, instead of forcing it down their throats?
Teching In
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
I agree with the different areas thing, I guess living in chicago for a long time an auto could be a better choice. But I also live in the suburbs with lots of curvy sideroads and even in the city there are some nice curves. Also it helps that I live 15 minutes from a road course and an hour from the drags. So as much as I do love drag racing, Im more into and involved with road racing. Even when I do drag race im not so much concerned with consistancy as I am testing my ability (coming from the road racer in me) and just having fun so I much enjoy a standard over an auto. Now if I didnt have the road course and lived in a more stoplight to stoplight traffic problem area, I might not mind a stalled auto. But they're just not fun on the course or the autox.
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11 Second Club
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
From: Midland, GA
Here's a discussion of what is involved. The linked thread is talking about the L76 engine in the G8; but is also pertinent to the AFM equipped L99.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/pontiac-g8-2008-09-chevrolet-ss-2014/902078-camshaft-any-vendors.html
Does anybody think they really imagined doing it like this?
I don't like it either that we get 2 different motors, but I think the team took the V8 motor that was most economically feasible to stuff in the car (LS3) and did everything they could to give us max power and "beat the man" and still get enough gas mileage pushing this fat pig of a car around to still avoid the "Gas Guzzler" title and not screw up the CAFE, etc.
Hell they probably could have just done some kind of de-tuned LS3 making 390hp for both cars, no DoD, and said "to hell with it, problem solved." Then they'd have track performance almost equal to 4th gens. No go. Other options: find a way to shave a few hundred pounds. Apparently that wasn't possible?? Create a more powerful and yet more efficient V8. (not there?). Go forced induction (too expensive at the price point?)
Don't forget that Ed said at the reveal that "we are still working on it" which means they are not happy with it and even though they put out some numbers they are holding their cards close. I look for the same disparity in production, but with slightly higher numbers, maybe 425 M6, 405 A6. Then let the games & modding begin.
I don't like it either that we get 2 different motors, but I think the team took the V8 motor that was most economically feasible to stuff in the car (LS3) and did everything they could to give us max power and "beat the man" and still get enough gas mileage pushing this fat pig of a car around to still avoid the "Gas Guzzler" title and not screw up the CAFE, etc.
Hell they probably could have just done some kind of de-tuned LS3 making 390hp for both cars, no DoD, and said "to hell with it, problem solved." Then they'd have track performance almost equal to 4th gens. No go. Other options: find a way to shave a few hundred pounds. Apparently that wasn't possible?? Create a more powerful and yet more efficient V8. (not there?). Go forced induction (too expensive at the price point?)
Don't forget that Ed said at the reveal that "we are still working on it" which means they are not happy with it and even though they put out some numbers they are holding their cards close. I look for the same disparity in production, but with slightly higher numbers, maybe 425 M6, 405 A6. Then let the games & modding begin.
The cam swap on an AFM car is going to be a little different and more expensive than what we are accustomed to seeing.
Here's a discussion of what is involved. The linked thread is talking about the L76 engine in the G8; but is also pertinent to the AFM equipped L99.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=902078
Here's a discussion of what is involved. The linked thread is talking about the L76 engine in the G8; but is also pertinent to the AFM equipped L99.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=902078
So not only will I have to do a cam/spring swap, but I'll also have to pull the heads to swap the lifters. DoD is awesome!
Hey, maybe once you take delivery of your DOD auto Camaro, you can find someone with a non-DOD manual Camaro that wants DOD with auto, and you can do a motor/trans swap with them ha ha ha.
The general public is who will keep the Camaro alive not us die hard enthusiast. It’s sad but true and GM did what they had to do to attract them to the Camaro. I was hoping DOD would be available on the 6 speed model because I am the type of guy who would drive my car every clear day I can, and at this point in time I want a car getting 4 cyl MPG down the freeway and when I drop a gear get plenty of passing power. If you’re going to mod your car it’s just one more thing you will have to do, and when it comes to modding, how many times do we ever not do one more thing.
TECH Regular
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 450
Likes: 1
first of all to the gut wirh the DOD ISSUE U ANWERED URSELF little things like the hump the door are part of the experience DOD is the same thing........and cant really tell me that dod is going to change the car dramatically com on guyss......
and the reality of its is that the car is going to have a 6 speed anyway so I don't know what's the point of all the crying........
as for my first post I came of little strong but u guys have to realize that this thread is pointless at this point cause we are just nitpicking.....the new car is awsome an I apologize for comming off too strong guys everybody has there own opinion
and the reality of its is that the car is going to have a 6 speed anyway so I don't know what's the point of all the crying........
as for my first post I came of little strong but u guys have to realize that this thread is pointless at this point cause we are just nitpicking.....the new car is awsome an I apologize for comming off too strong guys everybody has there own opinion
LS3 and L99 are the same, except L99 has AFM, so the cam and lifters are AFM-specific.
Other than that the internals are the same.
Unless you're really concerned about having all 8 cylinders going all the time it's no big deal.
And you won't ever notice 4-cylinder mode with AFM anyway, because as soon as you're back in the throttle, even a tiny bit, you're back in 8-cylinder mode.
On top of that, the L99/A6 combo is FASTER according to preliminary performance figures.
Other than that the internals are the same.
Unless you're really concerned about having all 8 cylinders going all the time it's no big deal.
And you won't ever notice 4-cylinder mode with AFM anyway, because as soon as you're back in the throttle, even a tiny bit, you're back in 8-cylinder mode.
On top of that, the L99/A6 combo is FASTER according to preliminary performance figures.
The cam swap on an AFM car is going to be a little different and more expensive than what we are accustomed to seeing.
Here's a discussion of what is involved. The linked thread is talking about the L76 engine in the G8; but is also pertinent to the AFM equipped L99.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=902078
Here's a discussion of what is involved. The linked thread is talking about the L76 engine in the G8; but is also pertinent to the AFM equipped L99.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=902078
you know... I remember reading something that said "Soon you will forget that the LS3 ever existed" It makes me think this odd combo of motors couldn't have been avoided without delaying launch another year, year and a half. All of it makes me think this setup may not last too many years in our 5th gens... not even 3. 
LS3 and L99 are the same, except L99 has AFM, so the cam and lifters are AFM-specific.
Other than that the internals are the same.
Unless you're really concerned about having all 8 cylinders going all the time it's no big deal.
And you won't ever notice 4-cylinder mode with AFM anyway, because as soon as you're back in the throttle, even a tiny bit, you're back in 8-cylinder mode.
On top of that, the L99/A6 combo is FASTER according to preliminary performance figures.
Other than that the internals are the same.
Unless you're really concerned about having all 8 cylinders going all the time it's no big deal.
And you won't ever notice 4-cylinder mode with AFM anyway, because as soon as you're back in the throttle, even a tiny bit, you're back in 8-cylinder mode.
On top of that, the L99/A6 combo is FASTER according to preliminary performance figures.
LS3 and L99 are the same, except L99 has AFM, so the cam and lifters are AFM-specific.
Other than that the internals are the same.
Unless you're really concerned about having all 8 cylinders going all the time it's no big deal.
And you won't ever notice 4-cylinder mode with AFM anyway, because as soon as you're back in the throttle, even a tiny bit, you're back in 8-cylinder mode.
On top of that, the L99/A6 combo is FASTER according to preliminary performance figures.
Other than that the internals are the same.
Unless you're really concerned about having all 8 cylinders going all the time it's no big deal.
And you won't ever notice 4-cylinder mode with AFM anyway, because as soon as you're back in the throttle, even a tiny bit, you're back in 8-cylinder mode.
On top of that, the L99/A6 combo is FASTER according to preliminary performance figures.