JD_AMG

Konis most certainly lessen the ride harshness over the stock shocks. Its all on the valving, they have less compression than the stock ones, leading to a less jarring ride, but more rebound giving you more control, feel, and firming things up. The best way to put it IMO is the stock shocks always felt like they were just letting the tires/car slap against the bumps in a brute and uncontrolled manner where the konis would make the car feel BMW-like, going over bumps firmly (you know the bumps are there), but not jarring and jittery like stock. I mean it when I say I wouldn't own another fbody without konis.

JD_AMG

No they wouldn't be any slower. All they needed was interior plastics that weren't the same you find on disposable cameras, and tighter build quality (less panel/body/interior) gaps. That takes care of the major quality issues.
Next they should have used at least some decent shocks from the factory, at least bilstiens, not crap strait off trucks like the decarbons. That would fix 99% of the ride quality complaints, and the interior would be less noisy due to the fact the shocks don't feel like they have cement in place of oil, so your not hitting bumps and rattling your fillings out (this would also dramatically help handling as well).
Brake rotors that don't warp, headlight motors that weren't designed in the 1980s, window motors that weren't designed in the 1970s (or at least could take the load of the heavy window) wouldn't be a bad thing either.
Although the car would be more expensive, it would be worth it IMO.

Striker

iTrader: (1)

I always considered Koni shocks but always procrastinated due to price. But the more and more reading I do on them, especially like the points you make above, I think I might invest in them after all.

My car has 23K miles and so far NO rattles besides that hatch occasionally smashing down so I think in order to keep the interior rattle free I may be getting some 4/3's in the near future.

myk

iTrader: (4)

These things came from the 90's, what does anyone expect? Almost NO ONE was making tight cars back then unless you wanted to pay for it. Look at cars from this era-I'm sure you won't find any of the rattles, loose fitting panels and other nonsense that people are complaining about with the 4.1 & 4.2 Generation cars...

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I disagree. Granted, a full second of ET was being a bit sarcastic on my part, but they would be slower. People often mention wanting better leather, more cushy seats, more insulation from road noise, less hard "plastic"/more higher quality materials (padded vinyl I guess they want, what else would they use???), etc. These all add weight, thus slowing the car. Same as the 4th gen 'verts are always slower than same-power level hardtop/t-top cars.

My stock rotors lasted until 90k miles, with one cut. Never any serious vibrations.

One of the reasons why I perfer Camaros now.


This one I'll agree with.

Not really. F-body power + higher quality materials and assembly = Corvette. Why even have the F-body if it's not significantly more affordable than the vette? I guess a few people still would've wanted them for the rear seats.

06 6.0 GTO

Its the rear seats mostly yes. But Corvettes of the same ERA suffered from the same fit and finish complaints a lot of the time as well.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

99 T/A w/120,000 miles, bought new back in feb of 1999 for $24,500

Did heads & cam in 2002 w/32,000 miles, a few minor issues covered under warranty. Otherwise, one power window motor, two speakers, & two batteries. Very reliable. Interior materials could have been better, leather seat didn't hold up as well as I'd hoped, plastic door panels cracked due to the GM staples, dash cracked. Great performace car for the buck.

As for 3rd Gen's having quailty issues well the 91 RS also bought new in May of 1990 has 323,000 miles and is still the daily driver. Other than 2 alternators, a fuel pump, a distrubtor, a starter, an ignition module. It's been the overal most reliable car I've owned and I still trust the RS on 1,400 mile trips...it made several this fall. Yes, it rattles and has a cheap interior but I wish I had $1 for every Honda, Toyota etc the car has outlasted.

Build quailty varies some car to car like wise taking care of the car doing the maintance makes a world of difference too.

Barney Z

Thanks for that! Mine sounds like the glass is ganna pop out every time I hit a good bump

retardedpenguin

iTrader: (2)

Shock's do make a world of a difference. My 95 V6 was pretty much not drive able at highway speeds. I almost lost it a few times from hitting big bumps not to mention the downright horrible noises it makes. It was also pretty embarrassing pulling into school with the car bottoming out.

The thing that I don't get are how my 80 Trans Am and all the 60's cars at work with power windows still work yet a 99 Trans Am and 95 Camaro's can't make it a year without needing new motors.

69camaross

iTrader: (4)

I must be the luckiest 4th gen owner in the world as I've never had to replace a power window motor on any of the 4th gens I've owned. All of them had their OEM from the factory units too.

71novaguy

iTrader: (2)

I am fairly happy with my WS6. Power is good, fuel economy is awesome (got 29 mpg's more than a few times on extended trips). Sure build quality was down when these were built, people paid the money and never asked them to build it better. They only cared about performance at the time, and it out ran the Mustang. Good enough.

The only real complaint I have with the car is the F-ing vibration I can't get rid of. The tires have been balanced, its been aligned, new U-joing, rotors, clutch and flywheel. It still f-ing vibrates. Why, oh why does it have to vibrate like an f-ing POS.

oberth1

iTrader: (6)

complain complain complain... Economy Muscle. My 98 had 150k on it and ran like a champ, my 99 just hit 120k (might get her a cupcake and candle) and hasn't let me down once. She still runs low 13s at the track, gets 25+mpg and the only real work done to her that was required was the clutch and alternator. Hell, the clutch was only done at 114k because the pilot bearing went! Every car has bugs, every car has required maintenance. Lets see how well any other car would take being beaten on like we have done to our cars for a decade.

Build quality?

Of course the interior is cheap. It's a Pontiac. You paid for a american Sports car, not a BMW/MEBE. I guess no one complaining about cheap interiors has been in a saturn... You want fit and finish to be perfect? a) do it yourself or b) buy a newer car, c) spend twice as much and get something european Then bitch when you get the bill for service on that. They didnt change these interiors much for almost a decade. Its functionality over aesthetics... Honestly the interior in my 07 Grand Cherokee is as corporate and basic as my TA. Sure it has some nice extras like heated seats and self dimming mirror. But i could care less in the TA. Its an experience. Im yanking the Air next year because i forgot to use it all summer.

All of the factory parts on the car were mass produced, budget friendly daily driver parts that are easily replaceable in the aftermarket. Suspension too squishy? Throw on some bilsteins, SFCs and drive her. Interior bugging you? Change it. Rattles getting to you? Go sit in a mustang of the same year with the same miles (hint: bring earplugs/not a dig at stangs at all!! just point of reference). Plenty of threads/sites online on how to update/modify/butcher (sorry had to throw it out there) your car. You also have a great community here to help you if you have problems/questions. Remember,the youngest of these is coming up on 8 years old. Things do go wrong. Go watch the discovery channel when they do a ferrari special and listen to the things those owners do with under 15k miles on their cars. You could buy an F-body every repair bill.

You dont like it, sell it and quit complaining. You werent pressured into your purchase (i hope), you bought the car because it put a smile on your face and/or gave you butterflys everytime you drove it. Im on my 16th car at this point, including my 6th f-body. Nothing else i have driven ever gave me the same level of satisfaction as my TA. Not even my friends 08 c6. I want to feel the rear end kicking out every now and then, i want to feel the road as i go over it, i want to be reminded what im in control of and the power she posesses...


For what these cars cost new, or what they sell for used now on ebay/autoshopper how can you go wrong. There was a 02 m6 ws6 with 15k miles for $15k the other day that didnt sell on the bay... What else can you get for that price new or used? 09 Civic...base? 09 Hyundai accent 4dr with a sport package? Hell out by me you cant even touch a 5 year old acura rsx with 50k miles out here for that price!

Everybody i know with 3 series bmws, 3000gts, supras, mustangs are always talking about how much they spent to repair something that failed on them, while im bragging about how much i spent to upgrade something that worked perfectly... up to OE specs that is... :-) Ok enough ranting and enough coffee for today

gmmusclecarman

iTrader: (20)

I think the build quality is great on both of my fbodys. I DD my 98 z28 for almost a year and i loved every second of it. It had well over 120k miles as well. I never noticed any squeaks or rattles, maybe i just couldnt hear it over my exhaust or the radio lol. I think it handles great for what it is and overall it was just a blast to drive. Yes the power window motors are a bitch, as well as the #8 spark plug but you cant win them all can you? These cars have a few bugs ill admit but overall it is a great performance car for the money. I remember how I would actually be excited to get up for school because I would get to drive the camaro there.

I also have a 93 v6bird and it is a good car aswell. Ive got a 131k miles on it. It is very comfortable and i love the interior, i dont know what some of you are talking about its not perfect but it gets the job done for sure. Mine just needs a little fixing up and it will be a great car.

02LS1z

iTrader: (11)

Well i have owned 10 cars total my whole life and 5 of them were fbodys, 2 3rd gen camaros, 2 lt1 trans ams, and ven 1 ls1 camaro. i dont really have any complaints about my 4th gens. Great power, great gas mileage, paid $12k for it with 45k miles and hand mustangs their a$$ with ease. It has been really reliable and easy to work on imo. They are pretty cheap to put in the 12s or even 11s for that matter. Sure some things could have been done better but the good def out ways the bad.

camaroman16

Very well said. If you don't like the build quality after you own one sell it and go get something with more luxury.




Also very we said. I couldn't agree more with RPM WS6 and these two replys. The F-bodys are NOT luxury cars. They are AFFORDABLE performance cars. For many buyers these cars are cheap speed and then they complain because it doesn't have Navi, better leather, has road noises, it rattles, or it rides horrible. Im not saying theres nothing wrong with the build quality. But for the most part I haven't had problems. They are easy to work on, get decent gas mileage, good performance. I do agree the window motors are a pain in the ***, spark plug number 8, head light motors on T/A's, the rear end. etc. But, I like the things that most people bitch about, the stuff that makes them a modern muscle car. Long hood, long doors, basic/non luxury interior, OHV V8 engine, agressive styling, great power-to-dollar ratio, basic options only. I don't need/want Navi, heated seats A/C (thats what t-tops and windows are for.) etc. Driving a F-body is as close as you get in any modern car to driving a classic muscle car. I was talking to a buddy of mine a few weeks ago and we got to talking about F-body's and the quality and he told me; "When it was time to build my Camaro I knew what I wanted it to be. Sure it smells like gas and tires, sure it has a loud exhaust and the suspension is pretty rough. But I made it handle, brake, drive and ride like a brand new car, for far less then what a new BMW costs, it has Corbeau seats, HID headlights, but most importantly its what I wanted, what I love and I fixed the quality that GM missed." So with that said, if you don't like the build quality, sell it, move on and quit complaining. You don't have to buy F-bodys. Nobody makes you buy them.

AnnivSS

The reason is the way the circuit for the windows is wired. There is to much resistance in the circuit, resistance cause heat. These motors have a temperature sensitive shut off, so if they get to hot they quit working. Its not so much a problem with themotors as it is the wiring for the motors. Theres harnesses you can buy to fix this. Or use my method, $44 power window motors from auto zone with a lifetime warranty. Takes me about 20 minutes to change one out.

71novaguy

iTrader: (2)

20 minutes... you lie

slayerized6

iTrader: (12)

a window motor can be done easily in 20 min IF the motor has already been changed once before. Remove door panel, remove 3 bolts, and you dropped the motor; you dont need to drill access holes to the rivets, nor drill the rivets out like the original motor.

Breathing Fire

Window motor replacement is so easy and 20min is probably what it took the last time I did one. Once the factory one is out it is cake. Couple nuts and bolts and lube for the regulator.

To those who think the headlight motors are crap I have had 3 birds. Never once has the actual motor failed on me. The gears inside are ****, but the rest isn't. Replace the gears. Brass or Aluminum i've used both. No big deal. Never a problem after that. My 97 bird with over 200k and still no motor failure.

Some of the complaints here make me sick. I bought a 10 year old car with 100k on it and it rides like ****. WTF? That's like buying a rock crawling jeep and getting pissed it doesn't ride like a caddy DTS or STS. Get some shoks! That too is easy if you have some tools and 1/4 of a brain. Ya know the 3 birds I have had have been the most reliable cars I have ever owned.

AnnivSS

Maybe it helps that im a light line technician for ford and i have experience with window motors and a good set of tools? All it took me for my passenger side motor, removing the stocker and installing the new was about 20 minutes if you dont count the **** break.