Why so many turbo builds compared to supercharged builds?
10-31-2017, 05:33 AM
#1
Why so many turbo builds compared to supercharged builds? I'm doing a lot of reading/researching in preparation of my LS swap build to see which direction to go. I am curious why I don't see many supercharged LS builds while I see a lot of turbos. Is it because the price of a supercharger is a lot more than a turbo setup?
10-31-2017, 06:19 AM
#2
I have tried both. The supercharger "kits" seem to be far more complete than the turbo kits which is part of the price difference. When you look at the turbo kits think about things like injectors, custom tune, heat shielding, new exhaust, etc...It adds up quick.
With the turbo kit I spent more time with a saw and hammer modifying and moving stuff than I like. That stuff puts out far more heat than you anticipate. You didn't say what you are putting it in but maybe you have more room that I had in my 02 TA.
I would say you first need a goal for power. If the supercharger can give you the power you want that would be my direction if only because the install is simpler and kits are complete including a tune. Some would argue the tune thing, but again depends on what you want to do with it.
With the turbo kit I spent more time with a saw and hammer modifying and moving stuff than I like. That stuff puts out far more heat than you anticipate. You didn't say what you are putting it in but maybe you have more room that I had in my 02 TA.
I would say you first need a goal for power. If the supercharger can give you the power you want that would be my direction if only because the install is simpler and kits are complete including a tune. Some would argue the tune thing, but again depends on what you want to do with it.
10-31-2017, 06:49 AM
#3
I'm working on a 79 T/A and going with a mild/moderate pro touring setup. I have not set any specific power goals yet just getting the feel and ideas.
I'm really leaning towards an LQ4 build and hoping to buy a good used one. maybe even going 408 stroker with one. I'm thinking I may be comfortable at the 500 crank hp point so a N/A setup should work great but there is that seed growing in the back of my mind. "Just a little more here, little more there"
I'm really leaning towards an LQ4 build and hoping to buy a good used one. maybe even going 408 stroker with one. I'm thinking I may be comfortable at the 500 crank hp point so a N/A setup should work great but there is that seed growing in the back of my mind. "Just a little more here, little more there"
10-31-2017, 07:00 AM
#4
Restricted User
Supercharger kits are usually more complete, and a lot more expensive. Some of them, like the ones offered by brute speed, have everything you need which takes most of the guess work out of it. No researching for what other pieces you need. They even come with a tune. But, they are usually $5000+ starting out.
I've done several turbo setups for $1500 or less. I've done an $800 twin setup that made 600whp on a stock 4.8. The turbo setup is far more tailored to those who can fabricate, offering unparalleled power/cost.
You build a turbo setup that would crush the power output of most N/A setups, and could do it without ever pulling or taking the engine apart, and do it at the same cost as a set of aftermarket heads for an N/A build.
I've done several turbo setups for $1500 or less. I've done an $800 twin setup that made 600whp on a stock 4.8. The turbo setup is far more tailored to those who can fabricate, offering unparalleled power/cost.
You build a turbo setup that would crush the power output of most N/A setups, and could do it without ever pulling or taking the engine apart, and do it at the same cost as a set of aftermarket heads for an N/A build.
10-31-2017, 07:31 AM
#5
500 Crank should be easy enough either way.. same old dilemma we all face.. do I spend a bunch of money on the long block and do a power adder later or will I be happy with the 600hp power adder which should feed the stock shortblock ok if tuned properly.
To Joes point I guess you can build a turbo system pretty cheap. I have seen a lot of stuff cobbled together. Guess mine was more expensive as I am pretty picky and went with stainless and ceramic coating throughout and kept my air and other creature comforts.
Again, figure on what you need for the complete package vs the supercharger kit.. and your patience and tolerance for fabricating. That 79 TA has a good bit more room under the hood, especially if you don't have factory air so at least you have room to work.
To Joes point I guess you can build a turbo system pretty cheap. I have seen a lot of stuff cobbled together. Guess mine was more expensive as I am pretty picky and went with stainless and ceramic coating throughout and kept my air and other creature comforts.
Again, figure on what you need for the complete package vs the supercharger kit.. and your patience and tolerance for fabricating. That 79 TA has a good bit more room under the hood, especially if you don't have factory air so at least you have room to work.
10-31-2017, 11:40 AM
#6
The curve on a turbo is better and its easier to turn up the boost. I would not even mess with HC again, big waste of time and money imo and the driveability can suck. My car is a fun street car but i was used to the power in a week. Save up and go FI....either turbo or sc.
10-31-2017, 11:49 AM
#7
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Turbo is the cheapest/easiest power adder to go 500+ hp. I dont like the idea of the belt drive. I personally seen friends with belt issues and it doesnt interest me. Nitrous has gotten stupid expensive so thats even icing on the cake.
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10-31-2017, 12:06 PM
#9
Turbos CAN be cheaper, a lot cheaper. But a lot of people dont mind hacking their cars up, ditching equipment to make them work. And as has been said, SC kits tend to be complete. Some people - myself included - have zero interest in fabbing anything up. I like doing the work, but I want my **** to come in one big box and work.
10-31-2017, 02:11 PM
#10
Also, a turbo needs a different k member if running out the back. Those are what...$700 or something plus install if you have someone else do it.
Turbos are great but its something i would pay a shop to do for me. A procharger i would have no problem doing in my garage.
Turbos are great but its something i would pay a shop to do for me. A procharger i would have no problem doing in my garage.
11-02-2017, 04:54 PM
#11
TECH Resident
I have the Edlebrock SC kit on my car and it was the most COMPLETE kit on the market I think also excellent instructions. The tune they sent was Way too lean! I also had to go to the LS9 fuel pump. Pricey but it functions well and I still get 26-27 MPG on the highway.
11-03-2017, 02:11 AM
#12
Turbos CAN be cheaper, a lot cheaper. But a lot of people dont mind hacking their cars up, ditching equipment to make them work. And as has been said, SC kits tend to be complete. Some people - myself included - have zero interest in fabbing anything up. I like doing the work, but I want my **** to come in one big box and work.
Most turbo stuff you end up having to do some fab, and are more likely to deal with blown off intercooler piping, etc. Both setups will have their kinks.
I am a major fan of PD blowers, but I am probably in the minority on that front.
11-05-2017, 08:21 AM
#13
I have had nitrous and SC cars. I'm starting my first turbo build now. Have a lot of the turbo parts and looking for a engine now. The vehicle will come last. I agree with the fab position. If you don't enjoy building them buy a complete SC kit. For me I like putting them together the way I want to put them together so I'm gonna be a better welder when this build completes for sure as the primary problem is the hot/cold side plumbing needed for a turbo. Keep in mind all the assessor brackets can be bought and fit well so that isn't a huge problem if you do your research.
One other note is SC scavenged power thru the belt but you have the benefit of the power being right there when you stab the loud pedal. Turbos are more efficient from a power perspective but you will deal with lag at low RPM.
I also like the flexibility of dialing up power on a turbo better.
One other note is SC scavenged power thru the belt but you have the benefit of the power being right there when you stab the loud pedal. Turbos are more efficient from a power perspective but you will deal with lag at low RPM.
I also like the flexibility of dialing up power on a turbo better.
11-05-2017, 03:14 PM
#17
Its sooo much fun to plan where everything is going to be. For me anyways. Turbo gives you a chance to show off your creative plumbing skills, to create something unique that nobody else has and functions beyond what any OEM manufacturer offers- with the potential to be just as quiet and smooth operating.
ex I was ultra-concerned with the wastegate position, and re-entry to the downpipe position. I wanted a convenient location, so I could deal with, remove, swap, inspect, and just generally "get to" the gate for any reason. I've seen some gates that are very difficult to service so I wanted to avoid a car like that.
I wanted the exhaust to flow "along with" the main pipes- point the gate inlet the same direction as the exhaust was flowing to begin with. Point the gate outlet in the same direction as the downpipe is flowing at the end. And it needed to have plenty of room for insulation materials.
And you can get really crazy about it too. For example, there is a distributed load across the cylinder head somewhat proportional to whatever weight is hanging off the front where the turbo sits. The bending moment could be calculated, along with shear and x-axial normal forces, so the design could incorporate additional support where necessary, or altered to include such "flex" sections or "springlike" materials which will resist the environment the vehicle operates in (for example, off-road)
ex I was ultra-concerned with the wastegate position, and re-entry to the downpipe position. I wanted a convenient location, so I could deal with, remove, swap, inspect, and just generally "get to" the gate for any reason. I've seen some gates that are very difficult to service so I wanted to avoid a car like that.
I wanted the exhaust to flow "along with" the main pipes- point the gate inlet the same direction as the exhaust was flowing to begin with. Point the gate outlet in the same direction as the downpipe is flowing at the end. And it needed to have plenty of room for insulation materials.
And you can get really crazy about it too. For example, there is a distributed load across the cylinder head somewhat proportional to whatever weight is hanging off the front where the turbo sits. The bending moment could be calculated, along with shear and x-axial normal forces, so the design could incorporate additional support where necessary, or altered to include such "flex" sections or "springlike" materials which will resist the environment the vehicle operates in (for example, off-road)
