wannafbody

iTrader: (2)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enth...ns/ar-BB110eqf

Spamfritter

iTrader: (1)

Hardly. Even if inspections and enforcement of existing laws becomes more strict, there are ways around it. There are mods for your car which are 50 state legal, such as all the C.A.R.B. compliant crap they use in Kaliforniastan. There are also many ways to beat the testing and visual inspections. I'll get into that topic in a bit.

These guys got in trouble because they were doing this on TV. More to the point, they were doing this specifically with diesel engines. Diesels have additional emissions control equipment that our muscle cars and performance vehicles lack. You have the DPF system that deals with diesel particulate. It's a power robbing and sometimes unreliable system which creates additional costs in the form of DEF fluids, more expensive exhaust systems and worse fuel economy. You also still have EGR and everything else a car has. What these guys were doing was pulling the DPF systems off the trucks and then they were tuning the vehicles to "roll coal" which means they were blowing black smoke. This is caused by making the diesel run rich and spew black smoke in the form of unburnt fuel. It tanks your already shitty mileage and looks obnoxious. They often rerouted exhaust via hood exits which basically ditched the entire exhaust system in many cases. Essentially, they called serious attention to themselves and the automotive world over this.

The law hasn't changed. What has changed, is enforcement of that law. Technically, you aren't supposed to remove emissions equipment on any vehicle if it was built after 1972. This has been the case since 1972. This is why there is a disclaimer on so many of the mods you can buy for your car that say "intended for off road use or on vehicles manufactured after 1972 only" or something to that effect.

There are technically two kinds of inspections. Emissions testing and visual inspection. Emissions testing is only required for a vehicle that's 25 years old or older. This is what leads people into believing that they can remove emissions equipment on older post-1972 cars and trucks. This was never the case. It's just not tested anymore. Visual inspections are supposed to look for the presence of required emissions control devices. However, due to the vast complexities of automobiles and their varying emissions equipment, this isn't all that feasible. Many of the people working at inspection stations simply don't know enough to do that job well. Plus, every car is as I said a bit different. Smog pumps, EGR, etc. are not always present and look different.

The way things really work is that visual inspections often overlook these devices so these vehicles often get a pass. Testing on the emissions systems generally looks for the presence of fault codes in the ECU of the vehicle. When we install long tube headers, we lose our cats and therefore lose two o2 sensors. EGR deletes are also common. These things can trigger a SES light. These have to be programmed out of the PCM and the codes suppressed. When they connect an ODB II scanner to your car, it will only be able to check for the codes it generates not the codes that have been suppressed. So programming out your missing o2 sensors or getting o2 sensor simulators can resolve these issues. It's the same with the EGR. You simply disable the code for it.

The reality is, some overweight guy at the inspection station isn't likely to try and crawl under your lowered muscle car and do a visual check for cats. They might look for a muffler and that's about it. They aren't going to look for your smog pump in the engine bay. It's difficult to locate in some cars. Basically, it's still fairly simple to get your car through inspection. There are places like The People's Republic of Kalifornia where testing and enforcement are much stricter, so this can vary somewhat based on your state and even your local county.

Even if you have strict inspection and testing standards where you are, there are still ways of modding your car which are legal in all 50 states. CARB compliant mods have been around since its inception and exist today. There are tons of products such as high flow catalytic converters which are designed for that purpose. There are also just as many tricks to get through inspection which have been employed for decades that still work. Gutted cats are one such example. In some cases, such as mine I could simply return the car to stock exhaust down to the manifolds if I needed to in order to get my inspection and then pull the crap back off once its done. Obviously, it's a bit trickier the further from stock your car is. The point is, enthusiasts always find a way.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

An important consideration here is the Clean Air Act, which dates back to 1963 and was first amended in 1965 to include federal pollution control standards to be set for some vehicles beginning with the 1968 model year (thus you will find some rudimentary emissions control devices on certain cars which are several years older than 1972). But it's really the CAA Extension of 1970 (and amendments of 1977 & '90) that expanded the program and led to much of what we are familiar with today in terms of emissions control/equipment and testing. As a point of reference, I haven't ever personally seen 1972 as a cut-off year for the legal sale of any emissions-impacting parts, nor do I recall this model year being a watershed moment for federal (vehicle) emissions regulations or devices.

If we look at the entirety of the Clean Air Act, including all amendments, and publications of the USEPA on mobile source emissions, there are technically NO emissions legal (on a federal level) engine/exhaust/fuel delivery modifications which can be done to any motor vehicle. Notwithstanding C.A.R.B. approval, it's federally illegal to "tamper" with any device or element of design installed on or in any motor vehicle which has been certified to meet federal emissions standards. It's also not legal to "de-certify" a motor vehicle for "off-road" use, so on a federal level there is no such thing as an "off-road" exemption status for a previously certified motor vehicle.

As correctly mentioned above though, NONE of this is new - and none of this is an enforcement priority of the USEPA.

Testing procedures, policies and exemptions can vary greatly, not just from state to state but also within a given state. Some states test only in areas of high population density, while still offering exemption eligibility for certain types or age of vehicles, while others test statewide or not at all. Test procedures can include a visual inspection, and/or OBD scan, and/or the old-fashioned sniff test (which has been phased out in most areas for 1996+ vehicles). There is no nationally standardized testing format, so visual inspections do not occur in all states (and, for that matter, neither does testing in general). Also, there is no nationwide nor federal mandate regarding testing which is specific to "25 years" as a blanket break point - for exemption OR as a requirement. 25 years is the age at which many states consider a vehicle to become an "antique", and that can in fact lead to test exemption (or eligibility for exemption) in some states, but there is no federal nor standardized/nationwide rule revolving around this specific age in regards to testing.

It's been correctly stated above that removal of emissions control devices, and/or tampering with design elements, is STILL not federally (USEPA) legal even if the vehicle has been exempted from testing at the state level due to age (or any other reason).

With all that said, it's again important to point out that NONE of this is new, nor is the USEPA cracking down on individual private enthusiasts. From time to time, we've seen USEPA prosecute examples (usually ones with a noticeable profile) of gross violation, but this essentially means little to the individual in terms of enforcement activity. Your greatest concern as an individual hobbyist won't be the Feds, it would be any changes which might take place to testing procedures and/or emissions compliance enforcement in your state or testing region (and whether or not this is of any concern will depend entirely on your region). On the other hand, if you're worried about staying in compliance with federal law, the days of legally modding anything related to motor vehicle emissions ended DECADES ago - and yet the industry continues, non-compliant parts are still being produced and folks are still able to buy them on the open market.

Long after this story is forgotten, there will be another high profile case and folks will again worry about "the end". Rinse and repeat.

Z Fury

iTrader: (1)

I love when the educated responses are the first responses. Well said.

SLOW SEDAN

iTrader: (13)

Sucks for those guys, they look like they have a lot of fun playing with diesels and build some pretty sick trucks.

I'm glad our state doesn't emission test diesel trucks older then 2006, for cars its only in the higher population areas and less then 25 years old. They have started roadside emissions monitoring though, usually on exit ramps.

Spamfritter

iTrader: (1)

Not sure where I got the 1972 date. I remember it for some reason, but in checking on it all I could find is that's when GM decided to start moving to unleaded fuel. In any case, I appreciate the additional context.

What state is this?

SLOW SEDAN

iTrader: (13)

Virginia

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

This date may be sticking in your head as a memorable automotive year due to the horsepower rating change. 1972 is when SAE net horsepower figures were applied across the board for new vehicles (though some models had both gross and net figures published in 1971). Federal unleaded fuel requirements didn't actually begin until a few years later, but lots of OEMs were already dropping compression ratios, specifically for emissions and unleaded fuel concerns, by 1971 (including GM).

Spamfritter

iTrader: (1)

That's probably it then.

landstuhltaylor

iTrader: (6)

**** em. Those ******** got what they deserved.

SLOW SEDAN

iTrader: (13)

Seriously? Not sure I understand the hate.

quiet_storm98

iTrader: (48)

yup good ole VA. My parents live in Woodbridge and I have seen those exit ramp emissions machines a few times, only good thing about them is if you have an emissions test due it can take place of an actual emissions station test but you still gotta pay the emissions testing fee. Luckily I live down in Spotsylvania county so I don't have to deal with emissions.

Spamfritter

iTrader: (1)

I didn't always agree with their taste in truck mods, but I don't understand the hatred for them. Sure, everyone who's ever put long tube headers on their car probably knows that removing emissions control systems of any kind is illegal (or rather, they should know) but it was one of those things that was largely unenforceable. I think the fines they are getting are unreasonable under the circumstances.

That said, I always thought rolling coal was a bit of a short bus type of mod that goes along with stanced wheels and park bench wings. The trucks could have been done a bit more tastefully and done without deleting the DPF systems, but allot of this was done for the sake of TV. Not only that, but it's well known in the diesel world that DPF systems are not only largely unreliable in some cases but they also negatively impact your fuel economy. Removing this crap in a lot of states where this stuff isn't enforced seems like something that's harmless and largely beneficial to the owner of the vehicle. This only happened because these are public figures with a TV show and hipster's probably got offended and or some bureaucrat decided to make an example of them.

They were in violation of the law and it is what it is but I wouldn't say they got what they deserved.

Mike@Diablosport

iTrader: (2)

Its happening to lots of shops and people that are not on TV as well...

https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/2019...se-resolutions

Remnant-of-VII

Even Magnaflow and Flowmaster got hit with fines, but yeah, there's a lot of diesel i recognized shops that got hammered with fines.

01CamaroSSTx

iTrader: (3)

All they really need to do to crack down on this is to require ALL vehicles to pass the sniffer test, so if your engine isn't up to snuff or its emitting more emissions than the car was designed to emit then your F'd. Truth be told there's far more than automobiles emitting pollutants into the atmosphere, volcano's for one. I guess if it ever comes a day when a car would have to pass the sniffer some people would have this bright idea to keep a stock engine sitting in their shop capable of passing the sniff test. So will there always be a way to get around it? Maybe, but again maybe not. What if a day comes when tax payer dollars go into equipping patrol cars with emission testing equipment so they can catch those violating emissions laws? My car makes more power then originally designed and as a result emits more emissions but at least I'm not on the road in a vehicle that's bellowing blue smoke out of the tail pipe that has an inspection sticker that says I'm legit.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

There are examples of these cases and periods of increased enforcement activity from time to time; I remember when one of the leading O2 simulator manufacturers was hammered with big fines and forced to "buy back" all examples of their product that were returned by customers. And yet, another supplier popped up and continued on with the product shortly after. When it comes to these larger companies (Flowmaster, etc.), it's really just a money grab that isn't going to run them out of business nor change their entire business model. To be sure, it's very hard on the smaller outfits in contrast.

The equipment for large scale sniff testing is big and expensive, and eliminating the need for this equipment was one goal of the OBDII scan e-test program. Here in IL, they dropped the sniff test entirely for 1995 and older vehicles once they represented less than 30% of total state-wide vehicle registrations. It would be hard to justify the cost vs. benefit of reinstating this type of testing on a comprehensive national level when the vast majority of registered vehicles can be accurately tested (and remain compliant) via the OBD scan process. As enthusiasts who modify our vehicles, within our own community it seems as though everyone is in violation and manipulating the OBD scan results via tuning, etc., however this is really only a small percentage of the motoring public.

Getting every municipality across the nation to update all their patrol cars with mobile sniff testing equipment would be quite a feat; the test program is conducted on a state level (usually by the state EPA or a subsidiary), so funding would be a major battle. Then there is the matter of, again, justification - low population areas often don't even have testing (of the brick-and-mortar test center type), so how do you justify the cost and complexities of putting this burden (and expense) on small towns and small police agencies? You can raise taxes on a state level, but someone will eventually be called to account for why such funds are being funneled towards e-test equipment in locations with populations too small to even warrant their own 911 call center. Some regions are more forgiving about tax increases than others, but attempting to accomplish this on a national level (unless federally funded) would be a fiscal battle that some tax payers would certainly keep in mind during local elections.

So, the "compromise" solution seems to be these mobile emissions detection vehicles, a program which is likely not funded by the respective local law enforcement budget, and has a limited scope (i.e. a few well-placed vehicles rather than patrolling every corner of every county).

Johnny Mayday

Lots of great responses in this thread, specifically @Spamfritter and @RPM WS6! Super informative!

That said, people who roll coal give the whole enthusiast community a bad name, so I can't say I'm upset about this verdict at all.

bammax

Just to hit on something mentioned earlier, 1972 was when egr valves started to appear. 1973 is when catalytic converters started becomig a real thing even though they weren't mandated until '75, which is also when gas became unleaded.

LetsTurboSomething

This is entirely it right here. It wasn't about power mods, else they would be going after people like Texas Speed too. These guys embraced the roll coal thing, they sold mods that gave no increase in power but allowed you to roll coal on people. They turned car modding into imature harassment of pedestrians, cyclists and other motorists with a window down. Literally leaving people at cross walks covered in soot...who would have ever though that would result in public backlash??