ARSENAL670

So I am getting ready to get my 02 WS6 back on the road after a hiatus due to life changes and other family related events. New tires are on order for later this month, then all the usual stuff - fluids, etc. She's been sitting in a garage covered and temperature controlled.

Anyway, 19k miles on her...as I start really pushing forward with upgrades to the suspension, I question if I should keep the LS1 motor long term, and mod that, or do something more modern.

And by modding, I don't want to build a 9 second drag star. I'd love to have 4-500 at the motor, and most of that going to the rear. I think that would make an extremely fun pleasure car. Is it better to hold onto this virtually new block, or move onto something more current and do a swap? Your input is welcome.

JohnnyBs98WS6Rag

iTrader: (1)

IMO, if you can achieve your power goals w/ just bolt-ons (which you can: long-tubes, intake, throttle body, cam, cat-back and tune will get you there easily), why swap out the LS1? Don't forget your rear axle when upping the power. The only reason to swap the LS1 in my mind is if you want to keep it off to the side in case you ever wanted to return your car to factory stock, or if its blown and a swap is easier than a rebuild.

ARSENAL670

I know the rear is the weak point on our cars, but that is what I had figured - bolt-ons for the LS1. I was just curious to see if in 2020, a bolt-on modded LS1 could achieve considerable power that is comparable to more modern engines out there in the LS series that have come along since then. If I can get decent power from cam, heads, intake, exhaust and tuning, that's great. If all that "only" yields me a little more power out of this engine, then i'm wondering if it would be worth upgrading it.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

~20 years later, the LS1 is only about 100hp (or 20-25%) behind the base Gen V LT1 V8 stock for stock. It would be much easier to add 100hp to an existing, good condition LS1 than to swap over to an entirely different [current production OEM] engine. A good heads/cam package plus bolt-ons can get you well into the 400+ rwhp range no problem. You also mentioned power adders - these can be added on top of a heads/cam upgrade, or in place of. Either way, getting more power out of an LS1 is really no issue at all - it is still a very relevant engine platform, and BIG gains are attainable from some very streetable heads/cam upgrades.

Is the car a manual or auto? The rear isn't much of a concern for an automatic car, especially if you're not planning on lots of track time. Behind an auto, the stock rear can actually hold up to quite a bit as long as you keep wheel hop away (though the automatic transmission itself isn't exactly the strongest in stock form). If it's a manual, well that's a completely different story regarding rear end longevity with aggressive usage.

Honestly, I wouldn't even think of dealing with the added hassles and complexities of swapping to, and then tuning and maintaining, the latest GM V8 if I already had a vehicle with a healthy, low mile LS1 and my power goals were only in the 400-500hp range.

ARSENAL670

Solid points. It's an extremely low mile vehicle. To answer your question, it is a manual car...so a rear end swap will most likely be necessary.

Thanks for the input.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

Are you going to drag race it with a sticky tire? If not, skip the rearend swap. Put your money into fun mods and enjoy. Also in before all the "I broke xx 10 bolts when I was stock" comments. If driven right and not drag raced you won't break a 10 bolt in most instances. That's $2k to spend elsewhere.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

I'd keep the LS1 and mod it.

450 whp is pretty doable with an LS1 and a reasonable budget with heads, cam, intake & headers plus supporting bolt ons.

However, a Magnacharger with bolt ons can hit 450+ whp. The Maggie could easily be used on another engine later on. Likewise if you were to decide to de-mod the car for some reason pulling the Maggie would be less hassle than swap heads & cam again.


Regarding the 10 bolt, check the pinion to see if its leaking. That's very common with 10 bolts. Often they leak gradually and run hot as a result of low oil. That can cause all sorts of issues.

Rear Wheel hop helps kill the 10 bolt a lot of the time. A good set. A good rotor joint rear lower control arms can really help with the wheel hop. Sam Strano can really help with suspension parts selection.

As for 10 bolt durability total crap shoot. A lot depends on if the car is M6 or auto plus driver skill or lack of it. A friend of mine who is a very aggressive drive it like you stole it driver has destroyed half a dozen 10 bolts on the street with street tires He blew up another half dozen at the track. Another acquaintance typically got 400+ pass on slicks at the track out of his 10 bolts before they broke.

quiet_storm98

iTrader: (48)

Im with everyone else here, if you are only looking for 400 or so hp to the wheels that is easily achievable with the ls1. I personally am running a mild head and cam setup with bolt ons and make right around 440rwhp and it is more then enough to beat a lot of cars on the street. Also as far as the rear end goes im an M6 car and i haven't had any issues with the rear end but I also don't launch it on sticky tires at the track or beat on it to death, eventually I am going to upgrade the rear because i want to hit the track with sticky tires.

ARSENAL670

Thanks everyone. The car is an M6 with the Hurst factory shifter. I would much rather not swap the LS1-I could see a justification to do so if this was very high mileage and had a lot of issues. Since that is not the case, i'll keep it and just build it a little.

This is a weekend/pleasure/nice weather/show car. I do not want to put it into a competition, but I do want to drag race occasionally perhaps.

Utinator

You should just save yourself a lot of time and money by trading cars with me. I'd love to have a manual LS1.

Joking aside, the LS1 can easily keep up with the new cars at the track, or on the street. I have taken down new Mustangs at the track, but I haven't been up against a new Camaro yet. Based on GM's advertised specs, my car runs right with the Gen-5 and Gen-6 Camaro SS. If I would have build it for straight racing, my car would be much faster. I like keeping it daily drive-able though.

If I had a manual LS1, I would beef-up the 10-bolt (girdle kit), swap the heads (ported 243's), cam (228/232), and intake (Fast 92). That should put about 420 hp to the wheels, and still be daily drive-able. Then, I'd laugh every time I smoke a Mustang at the track.

ARSENAL670

I may very well be asked to be buried in this car at some point. I have no kids, so no one to give it to. But I have plenty of time, since i'm 40 and have owned this car since I was 25. I have actually had offers on this car, but it's not for sale.

That aside, i'm likely going to just do the heads/cam/intake/exhaust/tuning route with this, and beef up the suspension. Like I said earlier, it's a weekend/fun/show car, so for me, it needs to be fun, but also good for a long drive/cruise that is done "spiritedly" at times. I think the last "mod" I did was the 1st to 4th skip shift eliminator.....in 2006

NHRATA01

iTrader: (10)

Yup, a reasonably streetable heads/cam setup, supporting mods and good tune should get you in the 420-450 rwhp range and running somewhere in the 11s depending on tire/driver skill. That's enough to stay a couple noses ahead of your recent 5.0s and SS's but still be a nice cruiser.

USAFguy177

If you’re not launching from a standstill with sticky tires, do you really need a heavy duty rear? I have 185k miles on mine. Bolt ons and dyno/street tune. Never had a drivetrain issue. You should at least change out the trans oil and rear oil. I concur with the other guys on engine. You mentioned something more “modern.” No lol. You have an LS engine. This is THE hottest engine (price, value, size etc) for swaps all over the world. Never heard of LS fest?? It’s nuts.

thehemi

iTrader: (2)

I have a '01 SS with 19k miles and have similar goals/concerns. On one hand, Summit sells a 515-hp Trick Flow heads/cam kit for $3500. On the other hand, a ProCharger can be installed w/o cracking open the motor and also provide almost 500-hp -- although twice the price. The heads/cam/exhaust route is definitely an economical way to make 500-hp. At my skill level, I'm not sure I want to crack open the motor on my 19k car, though.

Thanks,
Scott

ARSENAL670

When I get to the power adder portion of my upgrades, I will most likely go the naturally aspirated route first, before considering a supercharger....but I do not intend on opening up my engine myself, as I do not have the tools or knowledge to dive that deeply into the upgrades. I think the suspension I can do with a friend, since he has all the tools and the lift. Maybe even the exhaust.

bigbomber5

FWIW, what I've seen over the years is a lot of people after everything is said and done with their car they wish they would have gone with forced induction from the start.
Now this isn't everybody there are tons of people happy with a h/c/i setup out there. Everyone has their own specific goals in mind. It's just that when you start modifying your car you run the risk of "catching the bug" and will want more and more haha. Just an observation to consider

ARSENAL670

Don't disagree there. I had a C5 with the basics - Vararam intake, x-pipe, Borla Stingers, and a short throw shifter....those 3 things alone made her feel like a different car. Wanted to do more then.

camarof41_383

iTrader: (7)

You will get the best bang for your buck by modding the LS1. I've got a similar combination to what Utinator mentioned (LS1, AI ported 243 heads, 228/232 cam, LT headers, Fast 92mm intake, 4l60e, 3200 FTI converter) and my car runs mid 11's with drag radials and made 435HP to the rear wheels. It's a simple and reliable combination that can be driven anywhere and runs a respectable 1/4 mile time. If you want more power I would consider aftermarket heads like AFR, Mamo or trickflow. I've had faster cars and slower cars but for me this is the sweet spot, having enough power to be fun but still also be streetable and reliable enough to drive anywhere.

Nothing wrong with a power adder either but N/A keeps it simple. I personally wouldn't do a power adder unless I was planning on running mid 10's or faster or 550+ HP. Just depends on your long term goals with the car.

bammax

The things that always sway me against boost are the upfront costs and putting more stuff in the way. It's already tricky getting to certain parts of the engine and adding more tubing and hoses and brackets just makes it worse. Boost is fun though.

01CamaroSSTx

iTrader: (3)

Heads
Intake
Valve train
Exhaust= Killer bee and IMO the 241's can be worked to perform as well as the 243's.