NC01TA

I've owned F-bodies since 1996 (new '96 Formula) and bought my '01 Trans Am new. I am the first registered owner of my '09 C6 (had 5,000 miles when I bought it). I am going on 3 years of ownership. The LS3 is absolutely incredible and fast and a joy to drive. It literally pins you in the seat with it's 430HP during wide open throttle. I went to the grocery store yesterday to pick up a few things and forgot something. No big deal as I never mind a nice drive in this Corvette. When I arrived back home, I figured I would switch cars to exercise the Trans Am and went back to the store. As I was driving my T/A I realized I still prefer it and it is my favorite car. Yeah, I'm nuts but it is fast and I have had no issues with the LS1. Plenty of power in all circumstances and it feels like 'home' to me. That comfort level I get can not be matched. I am an older guy that owned powerless 70's and 80's rides back in the day. Maybe I just appreciate what this car offers compared to those. I also don't drive like I used to when in my younger years. I still enjoy those spirited drives in both cars but if I had to sell, I could not part with my T/A unless I bought another one that was preserved well over the last 20 or so years. I'm hooked. I realize this makes very little sense to most but this is what happens when you own a certain car too long. My message to anyone that has read this, is to enjoy these 300+ HP cars for what they are. They are special compared to what was built for several decades. By the way, I got a compliment on the T/A yet again. It's a constant theme each time I take it out. Enjoy your rides!!

bigbomber5

Just match up the LS3 with that TA
I agree with you feeling "at home" in the Trans Am. It is such a beautiful car and I never take for granted to be able to own and drive and appreciate what I have.

lees02WS6

iTrader: (5)

Put an LS3 in my Trans Am, with an LS9 cam. Runs smooth, clean (kept the cats), and I get good power to the wheels.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

For some folks, newer design and more power is always better. For others, once you reach the minimum power level required to achieve your personal definition of "fun", anything beyond that starts to become overkill and won't necessarily make the car dramatically more fun to drive/own in all regards (unless maybe you live with your foot on the floor, or at the track). At that point, other factors start to become more important - sometimes highly subjective things. I'm a big fan of the C6 and LS3 - great car, great engine, and I'll likely own one at some point. But I also see the attraction of a really nice 4th gen F-body; the LS1 came with enough power, even stock, to be fun to drive ~20 years later, and this engine has plenty of modification potential to still be competitive with many of the more modern offerings for those folks who want more.

The biggest current problem I see with 4th gens is finding those nice, mid-grade examples. You can find super low mile show cars, and you can find plenty of rough examples that need a lot of attention, but the nice in-between drivers that were relatively easy to find 10+ years ago are now scarce. I miss having a 4th gen that I felt comfortable driving somewhat regularly without all the worries and complications of a garage queen example, but I would need to find that "just right" mid-grade example. The thing about Corvettes is that the overwhelming majority were bought as toys, second vehicles, etc., so there is usually a good supply of show quality AND nice drivers (going back several generations), with a lesser amount that are truly "rough".

lees02WS6

iTrader: (5)

What are the thresholds for mid-grade? Unmodified, paint is decent, no rust? I'm just curious. For a lot of people modifications are a big drawback

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

One thing I've noticed over my years in the hobby is the shock (and sometimes insult) that some guys experience when making the jump from showing their cars at cruise nights to entering them in actual judged events. The definition of such terms as "show car", "excellent" or especially "perfect/mint" is quite different when applied to competitive and/or high level venues vs. the more general sense outside of such realms. But being active in those things can/will change a person's idea of excellent vs. nice vs. rough, so what one person considers to be mid-grade might be closer to what someone else might consider to be excellent, and so on.

This can be a very subjective thing but, for me, it's something that I know when I see it but it would be hard to quantify in words. I guess it's a matter of all/most aspects of the car being less than excellent, but better than poor. And, of course, those standards are somewhat scaled to account for the age of a vehicle, especially when speaking of cosmetically original, unrestored cars or aspects of cars. I agree that modifications are a big turn-off for some, but in this instance my reference to "mid-grade" was more specifically about condition than level of modification (as the two are not necessarily related).

JohnnyBs98WS6Rag

iTrader: (1)

For me, the question is, is it fast enough to SCARE you?

In HS, anything w/ a V8 was considered "fast", even my BF's parent's 383-2bbl Fury. When I first took my friends for a ride in my mom's '68 Cutlass (350-2bbl / 2AT, 2.78 peg), they thought it was fast as hell. It wasn't, it was a 16 sec car, but it would set you back in the seat when you kicked it down at about 50 MPH and got the revs up where that short-stroke 350 liked to make power, despite the 2bbl / single exhaust it had. Never scary (well, except for that time I did an unplanned 360 on ice). While it wasn't hard to scare other people, it wasn't a scary fast machine by any means (still isn't, but it isn't staying that way forever).

As a DINK in the '80s, I was ready to buy something actually fast. In my book, if it wasn't a big-block 'Vette, it was a 455 T/A. Well after talking to my insurance agent, I got a '76 455-4sp T/A. Poor thing, so massively choked down w/ that single cat in the factory Y-pipe made it feel like it hit a brick wall at 4000 RPM., but it was still a much faster 15-sec car. I swapped on a cat-less '74 dual exhaust and had alot of fun in it for a year before I totaled it. I loved the torque of that 455, I could idle though the neighborhood in 4th gear and it'd still push you back in the seat when you tickled the gas pedal. And it was a natural drifter on slippery pavement, so easy to drive with 2 pedals. But scary? Nah.

In the mid '90s following a divorce, I was ready to trade in my ex's '92 LeBaron 'vert on a 4th gen F-body 'vert. Found a low-mile '94 Z28 M6 'vert and had a lot of fun driving that for a year. It pulled like my old T/A except it didn't hit a brick wall at 4000 RPM, it kept pulling deep into the 5Ks, which made it ALOT faster than that T/A. It made my eyes bug out a few times, but no butt puckers. Maybe if I drove it more than a year...........

The styling of the '98+ Firebird caused me to stop and check out the first one I saw on a dealer's lot in the early fall of '97. Then the '98 WS6s hit the TV commercials and I was awestruck by its outrageous styling, even without considering the new LS1 "Vette Motor" under the hood (always a BFD since I was a kid). The story of my search and ultimate score of my current car can be found in the archives here and elsewhere so I won't bore you with that. In any case, YES I've scared myself on more than one occasion by not appreciating how easily and quickly you can get to truly dangerous speeds in these cars. Young kids probably have a much higher "pucker" threshold than I because they have never driven cars as SLOW as I have. But yeah, IMO, LSx cars are ALL scary fast.

Kjduvall

From the cars I've driven.. a hci built rowdy ls1 seems like raw bad Manors made to push hard at every opportunity. Vs a more refined power curve (ls3)that does not feel as (raw) Evan with more power. My thought is the ls3 lightly built with bolt ons , doesn't feel as barbarian as a cammed/built ls1.. now a cammed/procharged/4000k stall ls3 is a different story ...............

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Haha! This is so true, and immediately made me think of certain cars I drove and/or owned in my early driving years. There was a '78 Caprice coupe with a 305/2bbl, an '83 Dodge 150 with a 318/2bbl, and an '86 Cutlass with a 307/4bbl - all were obviously V8s but they were SO incredibly slow. But the worst example, by far, was an '84 Fleetwood with an HT4100....oh my, this car had all the acceleration potential of a 90 year old woman on a mountain bike. Slamming the pedal to the floor was sort of like flicking on a light switch for a 25 watt bulb. My grandfather bought this car brand new, and it was even worse than his 5,000+ pound '76 Eldorado (which was pretty bad itself for having a 500ci engine). But some of the older stuff was noticeably better, even non-performance models like a '71 Cutlass 350/4 that I owned long ago, or my dad's '72 Skylark - they were low compression and didn't have the big displacement "muscle car" engines, but they still got out of their own way.

Some of the younger drivers of today who's only experience with "slow" is the typical late model 4 or 6 cylinder family/commuter car would be shocked if they drove an average (stock) car from the late '70s/early '80s - even many of the "performance" cars.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

All of the comments above are very insight, spotlight excellent points and ring true to me as well.

Most especially
1) certain cars you've owned a long long time and like are preferred over cars that are just faster or have more hp. For me that's my 30+ year old 91 RS.

2) Having enough horsey power to be fun to drive is what matters not having extremely high hp. For me that used to be roughly ~450+ whp to 550+ whp depending on weight of the car. Over the last two years being closer to 60 than 50, I'm quite happy with ~325 whp to ~350whp in a bolt on LS1 Z28 for power.

3) Typically any 200 hp V8 in the late 70's and 80's felt fast even being a 16 second car as mentioned above because most cars were 17+ second cars

And I'll add the car or truck one likes, keeps for a very long time and keeps in good condition tends to become a time machine. When I get in my 91 RS I feel 20 something not 50 something. I think that tends to happen with any cool car or truck one owns for more than ten years and daily drives.

TransAmWS.6

I agree with you guys. I'm 26 (27 in a couple of weeks), so a little bit on the younger side and many of my peers have newer, usually faster cars like SRTs, 5.0s, 6th gens, turbo BMWs, Q50s, etc. I do really like many of these cars and would like to get maybe a A10 6th gen SS to race/mod when I am able. However, I've learned to accept that these cars pretty much have 20+ years worth of tech/engineering advancement on my Camaro and are in a different league. Regardless of that, I still like and appreciate my F-Body very much- even if it isn't the fastest car on the streets as it sits. With the help of the aftermarket, it would be fairly easy to take it to the next level as far as performance goes. I've had my F-Body for nearly 8 years and as time goes on, I don't have really much of a desire to do that to it anymore. I see the car differently now versus when I bought it as a 19 year old and am glad that I left it original other than the simple stuff I've done to it. I guess as I mature and as the car gets older, I've learned to appreciate and enjoy it for what it is.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I know we've talked about this in a previous thread, but I wound up taking a similar path with my '98 starting at about the same age as you are today. Close to two decades later, I have no regrets in doing so. I've bought/sold/modified other toys in-between, but I'm glad I kept this one and generally left it alone. Similar to what 99 Black Bird T/A mentioned above, when you keep a car that you really like for a very long period of time, you eventually grow attached in ways that go beyond that which was the initial attraction. This is a fundamental element of the hobby and great source of joy for some folks, and it generally transcends performance (actual or relative).

lees02WS6

iTrader: (5)

Bought my 02 T/A brand new in June of 2002, and still have it. I never wanted to "upgrade" to a corvette, far too common especially for the price - and they just do nothing for me. Trans Am's have an appeal I can't shake, or maybe I don't want to. Every time I see one, (formula, T/A, Firehawk), I think - damn, that's a great looking car. That said more hp can be fun, just as long as it doesn't become high maintenance.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

Completely agree. I find my A4 Formula is at that sweet spot where it is fast enough for every situation I may be in, even to the point where you have to be careful when and where you get on it - a little bit of that scary factor. By contrast, I find my buddy's C6 Z06 to be overkill - when flat out, it's too much for street or freeway. I also like the C6 a lot, but while people will complain about the seating in a 4th being too low, I find it perfect; whereas I do find the C6 too low. The situation has drastically changed in the past 3-4 years. MId-grade examples in the good condition 50-80k mileage range are often bringing money now, $15k and up. There just aren't many like that around anymore. So true. And they are often reasonably priced as well for what they are. A few grand more and you upgrade from a 4th gen to a C6.

RedXray

We're probably about the same era. In high school I saved up a grand working at the local car wash, full time in the summer and part time during the school year in the 10th grade. When it was time to buy that first car my mom wanting to help placing an ad in the local newspaper "wanted clean low mileage car $1000". I told her everyone with a beat up piece of junk would call... no thanks I'll find my own car. The next day the phone rang as mom was talking she stopped and asked me "do you know what an AMX is? As soon as she asked I remembered my 8th grade science teacher "Mr Foster" had a 1968 AMX and I thought it was a cool car. Mom arranged a meeting later that afternoon in a shopping center parking lot. Up rolls the 1969 390cid 4spd AMX with the "Big Bad Blue" color option. I could feel my heart racing like crazy, this AMX was perfect inside and out!

After looking the car over the guy asked "want to take her for a ride?" Up till then I haven't driven a stick yet except for my sisters 64 VW Beetle so he offered to drive. Mom in the back me riding shotgun off we went. The AMX was 100% stock but still sounded pretty good. He mentioned "everything works even the 4 barrels". He romped down on the 390 and it planted me in the seat as he shifted through the gears! Back at the parking lot momma said "I don't know about this that car is to fast" you know how moms are hahaha. I could feel that car slipping away "mom I want this car!" "ok ok it's your money"

We were your average middle class family but my high school was in the rich side of town. Those preppy kids had brand new 1975 Corvettes, Mercedes Benz and one guy had a new Bricklin. When that little used Rambler blew their doors off, driven by that "poor kid" with long hair... they all hated my guts . Then the hotrod parts came like a Holley double pumper, aluminum intake and a TRW hydraulic cam ect. This is where I got my feet wet building engines.

The little AMX sat down most of my friends rides a 6pk GTO, big block Chevelle etc. all except my buddies 1970 1/2 Z/28. Those races were who ever got the jump. Been into cars ever since and now a retired body/paint guy. In 1985 trying to re capture my youth I bought a really nice 1968 AMX 390. I enjoyed it a few years but the magic was not the same and sold it to buy a 1955 chevy. Now that car scared me! It was the spitting image of the "Two Lane Blacktop" car down to it's glass tilt front end, fenderwell headers and cut rear wheel openings. The SBC was built by "Jungle" of Belmont and would rev to 8 grand. It was fast but those drum front brakes with the single master was a handful to stop. A traffic court judge ordered me to sell it or go to jail... but that's a different story!

MonmouthCtyLS7

iTrader: (6)

Wouldnt mind a LS3 but for what there going for your might as well go for a motor from a vendor that has exactly what you want in it.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Just wanted to say that I really enjoyed this post, it was a great read. So many life-long automotive obsessions have begun with stories just like the above, thanks for sharing yours!

70T/A400

iTrader: (2)

There are very few people that you run into that drive and own the same vehicle for 20+ years. I run into all kinds of folks that own a performance machine and within a year or so they are out of it.

Reasons are high cost of ownership, the car becomes a piece of art rather than a driving instrument, they have an attention span of a gerbil and move onto the next best thing which is what auto manufacturers strive for, or a lifestyle change demands it.

These cars are unique in many ways. They aren't technically sophisticated nor are they set in the cave man era. If you can understand that it isn't about numbers but feel, it is about looks and personality, something you will never get from an electric car or cross overs.

They aren't the safest, they aren't the fastest, but what it is-it is the right size. Have you seen the new Porsche 911 or Corvette? How about the Dodger Challenger? They look like if you could make them float that they could substitute for an oil tanker.

tberg725

Some cars just have more of a "drivers" feel and actually FEEL fast or you could potentially be on the edge for example I bought my t-top fox body at the beginning of my senior year in high school 2007 I was 17 and loved the car (I still own it) and it felt like the fastest thing on the road a few years later I got a 2007 mustang gt for a really good deal had the 4.6 3v had pretty much all the bolt ons and cams ended up making 363 rwhp, my fox on the rollers hit 303 rwhp BUT the 07 mustang just never felt like it had "it" just felt too refined and smooth and not real fun to drive needless to say I ended up comming across my now 99 trans am and worked out a deal to trade the 07gt for the trans am and I am glad I did because now that my trans am it built up with the 4k stall the thing is an absolute blast to drive so I get chosing the older car to drive

Kjduvall

That's why I say a rowdy cammed/ stalled/ geared car can really just give that (RAW) sense ove power. Evan if it's 40hp down compared to a smooth low mi (mostly stock) LS3. Don't get me wrong it has alot to do with the platform of the car itself. A nice 6th gen or 5.0 coyote or perhaps c6 grandsport. Is just a different car altogether.