t_swayduh

Odd question, but I’ve got my eye on a few things and there are so many ups and downs to each vehicle I’m considering. Trying to decide which route to take.

If you could choose between a-e, what would you do?:

a) 98-02 WS6
b) 04-06 GTO
c) 04-05 Cadillac CTS-V
d) LS swapping a 74 nova
e) LS swapping a 3rd gen camaro

I know I could take the more rewarding but longer/more difficult route and buy a project car and LS swap something myself or just not deal with the headache and buy a car that has one already. If I buy a project car I will have 5 to 6 months to swap it on top of working a full time job. And I don’t want to just slap it together, I want to do a good, clean and thorough swap with just a cam, heads and intake upgrade. All of these options will be summertime street/strip cars and Show cars. And I do have my specific reasons why I chose these cars but didn’t include my reasoning because didn’t want to make this post too long.

Want to hear everyone’s thoughts and opinions.

440_Stroker

Daily driver with family of more than 2? CDaily Driver either single or just a girlfriend? BNot a daily driver and just for fun? A

t_swayduh

Why would you not consider the WS6 a DD? Just curious

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I wouldn't want to deal with GTO-specific parts availability and other issues, so that one would be out for me. Not a fan of the early CTS-V as anything more than a daily driver (I definitely wouldn't pick it as a show or street/strip car, but that's just me). You didn't mention that any of these cars would be a daily driver, so I don't think seating or door count should really be a factor - in fact, less doors would be preferable for the stated purposes, if it were mine. I would either do the WS6 or one of the old car options. GTO and a moordoor CTS-V wouldn't even make my list.

The late 3rd gen Novas ('73-74) aren't generally easy to come by in good shape these days, so if you want a really nice clean swap project without having to do a ton of general restoration work to the roller, you'd probably be better off with a 3rd gen Camaro. Unless perhaps you already have access to specific car that you'd be planning to buy for this. 5-6 months of doing work in your spare time isn't going to be enough to do a really nice job if the base vehicle needs a bunch of restoration in addition to the swap project.

440_Stroker

I will preface the response with this. The WS6 is the most iconic of the list you mentioned and is my pick of them all for a fun car.

Drive the GTO and the F-Body back to back. No comparison at all in the ride, interior quality, and comfort. After having both, and still have a 4th gen, if for more than a fun car on weekends or a day or so a week I would go with the GTO. That isn't to say the F-Body is bad, because it isn't, the GTO is just better.

GTO parts can be difficult to source but with CL there seem to always be part out cars. I wouldn't let it stop me from getting one.

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t_swayduh

Thank you for the input, and correct it won’t be a daily driver. I only considered the CTS V because it does have nice features and I’m not super against 4 doors, the main thing that gets me with the V1 is the glass rear ends on them and the shifter slop. And I haven’t heard good things about GTOs except from people who are big fans of them.

I am looking at a 74 nova, body looks good, needs some interior work but haven’t seen underneath it yet, so as far as I know it’d be the perfect start for me and bonus to it is that it’s in the color I want already! BUT it is gonna take up a lot of my budget which is around 10 to 12k. And the roller will cost me about $4000. Would $6k to $8k be enough for atleast a decent reliable build and could it be accomplished if the bodywork is minimal and requires no major restoration?

440_Stroker

They didn't make that many in comparison to F-Bodies so people who actually owned them are in a minority and usually those who had them enjoyed them. Not all, but most. Usually those who bash them never had them and their position on them is based off someone else's experience.

$6-8k is going to be difficult but not out of the realm if you do it yourself. You can find complete engine/transmission with computer for $3-$5k depending on which engine and mileage. So it can be done.

Have you set a limit on what you would spend on a 'ready to go car'? There is another LS1 car that can be found in the similar cost range, and in some cases cheaper, than a Trans Am and that's a C5.

t_swayduh

Everything you said are very valid points. And yes, I have considered some C5 corvettes but I would be so paranoid if I owned one, if I’d seen just one leaf on the ground she ain’t leaving the garage lol

But no in all seriousness, I love the C5 corvette and should give it more thought for sure. An LS swapped Nova is the most ideal for me because I love car shows (I.E- LS Fest and Street Rod Nationals) and would love to take it there, just wonder if the old street rodders would be offended by a electronically fuel injected nova. 😆

But on the other hand I have done some thorough budgeting, and just to get it up and running with a built 6.0/4L80e is gonna run me in $12k+ range so it would use up the entire budget and that doesn’t even include disc brake conversion and suspension mods and that’s also without the time factor shipping can be funky sometimes especially these days. The most important car show this year for me is LS fest because that’s where we are having my son’s birthday. So as far as budget for a ready-to-go car would still be the same as my project budget of 10k to 12k

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I wouldn't exactly consider the GTO a better car than a 4th gen F-body; the issues are just a bit different. I think GTO presented as much better in terms of initial quality, but everything from disintegrating seat stitching to all the suspension issues really makes them no better quality of a car over the longer term IMO. Objectively, GTO is an inferior design (weight, IRS) for drag racing purposes (OP did mention strip duty), so that's something else to keep in mind. They can be made very nice with some suspension upgrades, but then so can a 4th gen F-body.

On the '74 Nova, just make sure you check over the undercarriage properly; subframe, bushings, leaf springs (especially if it's mono-leaf), floor pans, trunk, etc. I would not expect to get this done for $6-8k if you want something nice and show quality. Double that budget is probably closer to a minimum; maybe more (maybe A LOT more), maybe less depending on your personal definition of nice and "show car", and how much of the work you can do yourself vs. outsourcing. Old cars (like the Nova) often have lots of hidden hassles and expenses, especially when purchased as a roller since you can't take them for a test drive. Everything from brakes/steering/axle to gas tank and electrical could end up being an issue (meaning more cost, more hassle, more time) depending on its condition and your goals and standards.

Most folks will tell you that nothing ever goes according to budget when building a car. They are right. This is even more true when you're starting with a ~50 year old car and taking on conversion duties as well as fixing "old car" problems and/or doing any amount of restoration. You mentioned the interior needed work - nice stuff won't be cheap, and then it just snowballs from there.

C5 is probably one of the best bang-for-the-buck performance car bargains on the market right now. I agree that pricing on these is often more reasonable than WS6 Trans Ams. Lots of great deals on C5 over the last 12-24 months, though more recently I have seen their prices begin to climb. If a C5 is at all interesting to you, I would put that above every other car on your list in terms of performance value for the dollar plus initial potential.

The LS swapped Nova will probably end up being the most expensive and time consuming based on what it sounds like you want to build/accomplish, but also sounds like it would be the most rewarding and enjoyable based on your posts thus far. I wouldn't worry about "offending" anyone with this; some folks will always be offended no matter what you do. For example, a lot of folks get after me about my refusal to LS swap my Nova. I have no interest in doing that and I actually like the old tech in my old car, I couldn't really care less if the other folks like it or not. Ultimately, it's your car and your money.

NC01TA

Having owned two Corvettes, a C4 and a C6 (both low mileage nice cars) I can NOT recommend them because of space concerns for my wife and I. It seemed every time we took a nice trek somewhere we would find something we wanted to buy. Would it fit in the trunk? In most cases, no, and it became frustrating. If space will never be an issue for you, then definitely go for one because the performance can't be beat. The LS3 was simply amazing!
Since I have been behind the wheel of F-bodies since 1996 I am extremely biased and would buy one again if anything happened to mine. Performance, looks, lots of space in the back when the seats are folded down, and the comfort level is fine even to this day (I'm 66 years old). We have been on trips to New England and Florida with no comfort complaints. Everyone feels different though so others may disagree with my assessment.
Project cars are wonderful adventures but time and unexpected costs can hurt the ownership experience. Again, that's up to you. Good luck!

440_Stroker

OP. Your budget of $12k is tight but not out of the realm. The only one I would think you couldn't do is the same as said above and that's a fully sorted 74-ish Nova with an engine/tranny swap with suspension...etc You haven't mentioned the LS1 Camaro so I assume you just don't like them. I picked up a one owner 99 SS for your price range and it had 54k miles.

None of the cars on your list are without issues and some greater than others and most issues are inevitable and will need addressed. Having a car to tinker on with your kid is great but driving and enjoying the car together is a lot of fun, too. Here are the list of issues, that can all pretty much be addressed, for each you mentioned.

CONS:

GTO: Seat stitches can come apart. A competent upholstery shop can fix. This is not every car but seems those that are left outside suffer the most. Radius rod bushings. These usually went bad quickly. If they are already done they should be fine but if not aftermarket is available. Rear suspension sag. This was from multiple things but it's not a hard fix. Many run drag bags and this helps with the sag as well as the IRS isn't the best setup for drag racing and these do help.

Trans Am: Cracked dash. Can be covered cheaply or replaced for about $800 + your labor. Doors crack. No fix unless new panels. Cracked seats from thin/cheap leather. All these things can be kept in good condition and not need replaced and most of the cars that suffer these issues have been used as a car and most often left outside. Dial panel bubbling on some years. Weak rear ends. Passenger floor hump is a deal breaker for some but it doesn't hurt the car in my opinion, just how the passengers feet sit. Your son should be fine. Dimples over the rear wheels is noticed on some. Frame flex is the cause so SFC's are a need, in my opinion, to keep the car more ridgid.

Gen I CTS-V: Early models had rear end issues. Many have been addressed at this time. Seats can look very worn if the lighter interior color is present. Radio button ***** fall apart. Motor mounts suck but most likely have already been changed.

C5: Thing leather seating cracks and rips. Some EBCM failures and replacement. Column lock. Window seals. Seat rock. All of which there are remedies.


All of them have PROS. When faced with a question that there are multiple choices I make myself a list. I place the questions down the left side and the choices across the top. I answer the question for each, usually all or some choices get a point for a question, and then add up the points. That's my objective way of doing it but cars are emotional so the subjective view point carries as much weight as the objective. There are two things that make me think I got the right car. If I find myself going out to the garage just to look at it and if I turn around in a parking lot to look at it as I walk away, it's the right car. If it doesn't make you smile it's the wrong car.

t_swayduh

Appreciate the realism, after hearing what everyone is saying, the Nova thing is gonna have to wait for another time. Lol which is fine, I’m here because I wanted more realistic opinions. And it’s not that I don’t like the Z/28 or SS Camaros, I just want something different. Where I live they’re all over the place and usually get no recognition unless they’re boosted and straight piped.

I ought to try out the pros and cons list and see what I come up with! Lol

t_swayduh

I’m not entirely too worried about space because I have 2 other cars I can daily. What I’m looking for is a summertime street/strip special occasions kind of car. Was never a fan of the C4, in my experience they ride very rough. The C6 on the other hand is one of the best in my opinion. But I’ve always loved the C5s.

Appreciate the insight, according to the LS1tech all signs point to the WS6 or C5 corvette route. 😆

blackbyrd

iTrader: (14)

go with the ws6 based off that statement. for a summertime ride nothing beats Ttops. I actually Daily my GTO and none of the things mentioned in this thread are off. I love it, but I have also fixed the issues mentioned in here minus the seat cause that just started showing up. Its a very subtle car and doesnt get much attention from your average joe. its a great crusier and handles wonderfully, but I wouldnt call it a special occasion car.

ws6 on the other hand exterior wise still feels relevant when you see one in good shape, interior not so much, but none of Gm's interiors from that era are stand outs. Mods are cheap and plentiful and you can go as mild or wild as you want with in a pretty manageable budget. They are also easy to work on.

MuhThugga

Buy the car in the best condition in your budget. Each car is going to have its pluses and minuses. I will say that parts for the GTO are much more expensive than other models. So, keep that in mind.

Honestly, I would go with the 4th Gen for your purposes. Parts are cheap and plentiful, and they are best suited for the drag strip. A 3rd Gen could be done, but you'll be spending a lot of time and money getting the chassis up to where a 4th Gen already will be. The 3rd Gen will have better engine access, though.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Based on your budget and time constraints, this is probably best. I know 5-6 months of evenings and weekends sounds like a long time, but if you want this done nice, clean, no corners cut (vs. just slapped together, as mentioned in your first post), I don't think you can really commit to a fixed completion date before even starting the project on a car like this. When I bought my Nova ~13 years ago, it was an older partial restoration that needed a refresh, some maintenance, and several items not addressed during the previous restoration to be sorted out. This was a running and driving car that looked to be in very nice condition upon moderate inspection, but it still needed several months of work and thousands of dollars (doing almost all the labor myself) to get it up to my initial standards. If I had started with a completely unrestored roller, it probably would have taken me several years to get to the same point. It's technically still not "done", as there are some things I would like to eventually do better.

Point being, if you're going to get into a project like this, you'll have to accept that "you don't know what you don't know" - meaning, there will be setbacks, surprises, difficulties and decisions that you'll have to make along the way that you couldn't really have anticipated prior to starting the project (especially if this is your first time doing a project of this scope). Those are the things that can derail a budget and/or timetable, thus leading to a ton of frustration and disappointment if you're counting on a certain end result for a specific dollar amount in a set period of time. Flexibility is going to be key if you want this to be more fun than aggravation. Better to go with something that needs a lot less work if you have strict parameters for money and timing.