Ever see a head repaired like this??
11-10-2007, 10:16 AM
#21
Actually there is no crack in the head, the epoxy was used to reinstall a blown freeze plug. Resulted in near fire and of course resulted in another trip back to the shop via the hook!! The half-***-ed repair was done out of site on the back of the passenger side head. Summit racing has inspected both heads and structurally there is nothing wrong with them. They did, however, find some wrong parts that would have eventually destroyed the heads and maybe more. Just more poor quality and/or ignorance.
The lawsuit has been filed. The perp will pay in full.
The lawsuit has been filed. The perp will pay in full.
11-10-2007, 10:44 AM
#22
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Damn. I thought I got screwed a few years ago with a certain shop. Just goes to show you have to deal with places that have big names and history. You may spen a little more but boy is the peice of mind worth it.
11-13-2007, 08:59 AM
#26
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Complaint (lawsuit) filed in Gwinnett County Superior Court Nov. 8, 2007. 12 counts. I'll see if Tony will let me post a link to a PDF file. If not you'll probably have to use a Lexis/Nexis account to read it. It is now public information. In all fairness their response, should they file one, will be a matter of public record too.
Here's how not to lose a lawsuit. There are only 3 rules to follow before filing. You must have the law on your side, you must be right and you must have the truth on your side. Of course evidence and proof to back your claim comes in handy too. Have those things and the money to proceed and it's pretty hard to lose!!
Also, take plenty of pictures before, during and after. They are priceless in court!
Here's how not to lose a lawsuit. There are only 3 rules to follow before filing. You must have the law on your side, you must be right and you must have the truth on your side. Of course evidence and proof to back your claim comes in handy too. Have those things and the money to proceed and it's pretty hard to lose!!
Also, take plenty of pictures before, during and after. They are priceless in court!
11-13-2007, 12:29 PM
#27
since you have a lawsuit pending, I'll allow you to post about the issues in a technical/factual basis. But, please refrain from any derrogatory or slanderous remarks, especially if this shop in question isn't here to defend themselves.
Thanks
Thanks
11-13-2007, 05:59 PM
#28
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Thanks Tony. I'll keep it civil and factual. LS1tech fans won't believe some of the things that happened to me and just maybe we can keep it from happening to someone else.
Personally I think the shops that are guilty of ripping guys off are NOT ever sponsors on top quality sites like this. Or if they are they don't last long. So one of the best things you can do to protect yourself is to stick with LS1tech sponsors! But that's not always practical.
The biggest mistake I made that you guys can learn from is don't trust a shop TOO much. If something doesn't pass the sniff test don't give them a pass just because you think you can trust them. Keep your eyes and ears open!
For instance, your trusted shop has been struggling to get things done to your car, things are moving far too slowly and nothing is ever done to your car while you are there. So, when they finally tell you to come see it run and they spring this on you "by the way, you'll be running 106 octane race gas from now on". That my friends is a clue that you are in for a long, expensive ride! Don't bother asking, "Where the hell am I going to get race gas??", just call a wrecker and your attorney! In that order.
Personally I think the shops that are guilty of ripping guys off are NOT ever sponsors on top quality sites like this. Or if they are they don't last long. So one of the best things you can do to protect yourself is to stick with LS1tech sponsors! But that's not always practical.
The biggest mistake I made that you guys can learn from is don't trust a shop TOO much. If something doesn't pass the sniff test don't give them a pass just because you think you can trust them. Keep your eyes and ears open!
For instance, your trusted shop has been struggling to get things done to your car, things are moving far too slowly and nothing is ever done to your car while you are there. So, when they finally tell you to come see it run and they spring this on you "by the way, you'll be running 106 octane race gas from now on". That my friends is a clue that you are in for a long, expensive ride! Don't bother asking, "Where the hell am I going to get race gas??", just call a wrecker and your attorney! In that order.
11-14-2007, 10:49 AM
#29
As alway's there is 2 side's to every story!!! I am a customer of LWA and I have had nothing but Excellant experience's with those guy's!!They built my long block and love it. No problem's with it what so ever. 1050hp for a year isn't to bad I would say!I really doubt that they would epoxy those head's like that. They have the proper equipment there to fix it properly!I would like to here more about what you wanted in your setup vs. what you got!I know alot of people say they want one thing and when they get it they don't like it and blame the shop for building it that way and saying that is not what they wanted.
11-14-2007, 11:01 AM
#30
Actually there is no crack in the head, the epoxy was used to reinstall a blown freeze plug. Resulted in near fire and of course resulted in another trip back to the shop via the hook!! The half-***-ed repair was done out of site on the back of the passenger side head. Summit racing has inspected both heads and structurally there is nothing wrong with them. They did, however, find some wrong parts that would have eventually destroyed the heads and maybe more. Just more poor quality and/or ignorance.
The lawsuit has been filed. The perp will pay in full.
The lawsuit has been filed. The perp will pay in full.
11-14-2007, 12:28 PM
#31
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Ya, but that head was apparently dropped, and then some crappy repair happened. And Summit and Trick Flow are one in the same, so they could inspect the head actually.
11-14-2007, 12:51 PM
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You are absolutely correct Hunter my friend so until LWA responds here or in court why don't you take their side. Let's start with the epoxy. It was done at LWA's shop on the cars first return to LWA on a wrecker. That can be proven in a court of law.
Why Summit? This will be news to you but Summit probably has some of the best LSX knowledge and particularly when it comes to heads in the country. Also, they are an unbiased, highly competent shop who's written testimony will stand up in court.
As for getting what I asked or paid for that is a nebulous question for two reasons. Number one only LWA and I know what was discussed. I can prove I paid them more than $78,000 which should get just about anything I want. Plus, I will post the bogus dyno graph they gave me when they returned my car for the forth and final time! And number two....read closely and slowly......LWA has refused to give me or my attorney an invoice for the car. No receipts, no invoices, no warranty or cam card....nothing! I, on the other hand, have cancelled checks made out to LWA. Getting wise yet????
To wrap this one up, it can also be proven in court that my car left LWA, on it's final departure, with numerous defects and fraudulent work. Stay tuned , it get's a whole lot better!!
Why Summit? This will be news to you but Summit probably has some of the best LSX knowledge and particularly when it comes to heads in the country. Also, they are an unbiased, highly competent shop who's written testimony will stand up in court.
As for getting what I asked or paid for that is a nebulous question for two reasons. Number one only LWA and I know what was discussed. I can prove I paid them more than $78,000 which should get just about anything I want. Plus, I will post the bogus dyno graph they gave me when they returned my car for the forth and final time! And number two....read closely and slowly......LWA has refused to give me or my attorney an invoice for the car. No receipts, no invoices, no warranty or cam card....nothing! I, on the other hand, have cancelled checks made out to LWA. Getting wise yet????
To wrap this one up, it can also be proven in court that my car left LWA, on it's final departure, with numerous defects and fraudulent work. Stay tuned , it get's a whole lot better!!
11-14-2007, 01:55 PM
#33
11-14-2007, 03:24 PM
#35
You are absolutely correct Hunter my friend so until LWA responds here or in court why don't you take their side. Let's start with the epoxy. It was done at LWA's shop on the cars first return to LWA on a wrecker. That can be proven in a court of law.
Why Summit? This will be news to you but Summit probably has some of the best LSX knowledge and particularly when it comes to heads in the country. Also, they are an unbiased, highly competent shop who's written testimony will stand up in court.
As for getting what I asked or paid for that is a nebulous question for two reasons. Number one only LWA and I know what was discussed. I can prove I paid them more than $78,000 which should get just about anything I want. Plus, I will post the bogus dyno graph they gave me when they returned my car for the forth and final time! And number two....read closely and slowly......LWA has refused to give me or my attorney an invoice for the car. No receipts, no invoices, no warranty or cam card....nothing! I, on the other hand, have cancelled checks made out to LWA. Getting wise yet????
To wrap this one up, it can also be proven in court that my car left LWA, on it's final departure, with numerous defects and fraudulent work. Stay tuned , it get's a whole lot better!!
Why Summit? This will be news to you but Summit probably has some of the best LSX knowledge and particularly when it comes to heads in the country. Also, they are an unbiased, highly competent shop who's written testimony will stand up in court.
As for getting what I asked or paid for that is a nebulous question for two reasons. Number one only LWA and I know what was discussed. I can prove I paid them more than $78,000 which should get just about anything I want. Plus, I will post the bogus dyno graph they gave me when they returned my car for the forth and final time! And number two....read closely and slowly......LWA has refused to give me or my attorney an invoice for the car. No receipts, no invoices, no warranty or cam card....nothing! I, on the other hand, have cancelled checks made out to LWA. Getting wise yet????
To wrap this one up, it can also be proven in court that my car left LWA, on it's final departure, with numerous defects and fraudulent work. Stay tuned , it get's a whole lot better!!
All in all,I am sure this could of been resolved in a different manner,maybe not??But as a business owner myself,I know you can only please all the customer's some of the time and the rest none of the time!And you sound like the rest of them!!
11-14-2007, 03:59 PM
#36
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Z - Tony has been kind enough to let this debate out in the open but I doubt he would appreciate me posting a 58 paragraph complaint on his site. I will get a link and the file posted ASAP.
Hunter - You sound reasonable so let's talk. First, I owned my own business for more than 30 years so, yes, I've been involved in quite a few of these. One in fact where as the plantiff I spent almost $2mil. in attorney's fees. Most suits were, of course, much smaller. I lost a few as a defendent although I wouldn't have fought the complaint unless I thought I was right. As a defendent you don't get to pick your lawsuits.
However, as a plantiff, you do. And as a plantiff I have never lost and doubt I ever will.
Here's why. As a plantiff you should know the facts. You should also be familiar with the law and especially as it applies to your complaint. But most importantly you KNOW the truth. Would you go to court without key facts, witnesses, knowledge of your case and how the law applies to it and most importantly knowing you were right? Have you ever seen a judge catch someone lying in HIS court? Judges watch you take an oath and expect you to tell the truth. When the facts prove that you are willfully lying (perjury) judges get very annoyed. I don't want a judge to charge me with perjury so I don't a complaint unless I know the truth and know it will stand up in court.
If this complaint is surprising to you imagine how I feel. I've known Lamar Walden for more than 30 years! I trusted him right up until the very last minute. I was, and maybe still am, in shock that he has done this to me. Lamar got in way over his head and a couple critical mistakes were made that he could not fix because he didn't know what had been done to the engine. He ultimately refused to fix the car.
He also has refused, and this is from day one, to give me an invoice of any kind. Does that make sense to you? I started asking him for an invoice waaaaaaaaaaaaay before we got to the legal phase of our relationship. He always stalled. Just plain refused to give me any record what so ever that showed what he had done or had been paid for to work on my car! That one still puzzles me .....unless he has done something that is going to cause him even more problems (I can't be more specific).
Hunter - You sound reasonable so let's talk. First, I owned my own business for more than 30 years so, yes, I've been involved in quite a few of these. One in fact where as the plantiff I spent almost $2mil. in attorney's fees. Most suits were, of course, much smaller. I lost a few as a defendent although I wouldn't have fought the complaint unless I thought I was right. As a defendent you don't get to pick your lawsuits.
However, as a plantiff, you do. And as a plantiff I have never lost and doubt I ever will.
Here's why. As a plantiff you should know the facts. You should also be familiar with the law and especially as it applies to your complaint. But most importantly you KNOW the truth. Would you go to court without key facts, witnesses, knowledge of your case and how the law applies to it and most importantly knowing you were right? Have you ever seen a judge catch someone lying in HIS court? Judges watch you take an oath and expect you to tell the truth. When the facts prove that you are willfully lying (perjury) judges get very annoyed. I don't want a judge to charge me with perjury so I don't a complaint unless I know the truth and know it will stand up in court.
If this complaint is surprising to you imagine how I feel. I've known Lamar Walden for more than 30 years! I trusted him right up until the very last minute. I was, and maybe still am, in shock that he has done this to me. Lamar got in way over his head and a couple critical mistakes were made that he could not fix because he didn't know what had been done to the engine. He ultimately refused to fix the car.
He also has refused, and this is from day one, to give me an invoice of any kind. Does that make sense to you? I started asking him for an invoice waaaaaaaaaaaaay before we got to the legal phase of our relationship. He always stalled. Just plain refused to give me any record what so ever that showed what he had done or had been paid for to work on my car! That one still puzzles me .....unless he has done something that is going to cause him even more problems (I can't be more specific).
11-14-2007, 05:26 PM
#38
All this thread needs to be is what happened, who did it, and the outcome. All posted after everything is settled. And you're also going to make yourself out as a legal genius who can out argue everyone who disagrees with you. Thats what this thread going to be about, a legal arguement. Total bullshit and the moderator(s) made the wrong decision in letting this stay open.
It would be far more useful to have this warning than not.
11-14-2007, 05:37 PM
#39
Z - Tony has been kind enough to let this debate out in the open but I doubt he would appreciate me posting a 58 paragraph complaint on his site. I will get a link and the file posted ASAP.
Hunter - You sound reasonable so let's talk. First, I owned my own business for more than 30 years so, yes, I've been involved in quite a few of these. One in fact where as the plantiff I spent almost $2mil. in attorney's fees. Most suits were, of course, much smaller. I lost a few as a defendent although I wouldn't have fought the complaint unless I thought I was right. As a defendent you don't get to pick your lawsuits.
However, as a plantiff, you do. And as a plantiff I have never lost and doubt I ever will.
Here's why. As a plantiff you should know the facts. You should also be familiar with the law and especially as it applies to your complaint. But most importantly you KNOW the truth. Would you go to court without key facts, witnesses, knowledge of your case and how the law applies to it and most importantly knowing you were right? Have you ever seen a judge catch someone lying in HIS court? Judges watch you take an oath and expect you to tell the truth. When the facts prove that you are willfully lying (perjury) judges get very annoyed. I don't want a judge to charge me with perjury so I don't a complaint unless I know the truth and know it will stand up in court.
If this complaint is surprising to you imagine how I feel. I've known Lamar Walden for more than 30 years! I trusted him right up until the very last minute. I was, and maybe still am, in shock that he has done this to me. Lamar got in way over his head and a couple critical mistakes were made that he could not fix because he didn't know what had been done to the engine. He ultimately refused to fix the car.
He also has refused, and this is from day one, to give me an invoice of any kind. Does that make sense to you? I started asking him for an invoice waaaaaaaaaaaaay before we got to the legal phase of our relationship. He always stalled. Just plain refused to give me any record what so ever that showed what he had done or had been paid for to work on my car! That one still puzzles me .....unless he has done something that is going to cause him even more problems (I can't be more specific).
Hunter - You sound reasonable so let's talk. First, I owned my own business for more than 30 years so, yes, I've been involved in quite a few of these. One in fact where as the plantiff I spent almost $2mil. in attorney's fees. Most suits were, of course, much smaller. I lost a few as a defendent although I wouldn't have fought the complaint unless I thought I was right. As a defendent you don't get to pick your lawsuits.
However, as a plantiff, you do. And as a plantiff I have never lost and doubt I ever will.
Here's why. As a plantiff you should know the facts. You should also be familiar with the law and especially as it applies to your complaint. But most importantly you KNOW the truth. Would you go to court without key facts, witnesses, knowledge of your case and how the law applies to it and most importantly knowing you were right? Have you ever seen a judge catch someone lying in HIS court? Judges watch you take an oath and expect you to tell the truth. When the facts prove that you are willfully lying (perjury) judges get very annoyed. I don't want a judge to charge me with perjury so I don't a complaint unless I know the truth and know it will stand up in court.
If this complaint is surprising to you imagine how I feel. I've known Lamar Walden for more than 30 years! I trusted him right up until the very last minute. I was, and maybe still am, in shock that he has done this to me. Lamar got in way over his head and a couple critical mistakes were made that he could not fix because he didn't know what had been done to the engine. He ultimately refused to fix the car.
He also has refused, and this is from day one, to give me an invoice of any kind. Does that make sense to you? I started asking him for an invoice waaaaaaaaaaaaay before we got to the legal phase of our relationship. He always stalled. Just plain refused to give me any record what so ever that showed what he had done or had been paid for to work on my car! That one still puzzles me .....unless he has done something that is going to cause him even more problems (I can't be more specific).
