Necessary to change all fluids?
07-28-2011, 08:24 AM
#1
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Necessary to change all fluids? Obviously a well maintained car is a happy and well-performing car, but I was quoted $587 including tax - not sure about labor - to change the essential fluids in my car from my mechanic. He said it should be fine to wait a little while but considering I am going to start modifying the car to make it faster I was wondering if I should go ahead and change all the fluids first or not (maybe some but not all?)
He suggested flushes and fresh fluid for: Coolant, Power Steering, Brakes, Transmission, and Rear Differential.
The car only has 22,250 miles on it but it is a '99 so those might all be the original fluids from 12 years ago...
Within the year, +/- a couple months depending on TSP's stainless production run schedule, I am planning on adding a lid, lower control arms, headers, y-pipe, and a higher stall torque converter. Maybe an intake manifold/tb if I find a deal. Might also switch get better performing street tires all around or maybe NT555Rs for just the rear 2.
He suggested flushes and fresh fluid for: Coolant, Power Steering, Brakes, Transmission, and Rear Differential.
The car only has 22,250 miles on it but it is a '99 so those might all be the original fluids from 12 years ago...
Within the year, +/- a couple months depending on TSP's stainless production run schedule, I am planning on adding a lid, lower control arms, headers, y-pipe, and a higher stall torque converter. Maybe an intake manifold/tb if I find a deal. Might also switch get better performing street tires all around or maybe NT555Rs for just the rear 2.
07-28-2011, 08:43 AM
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I got my SS a couple of months ago and that was the first thing I did. They are all done except PS, Brake, and coolant. Soon for them. Car had 113K miles on it when I got it and no clue what was done and when.
If you have no prior knowledge of service record, I would do it yourself. Nothing hard there that you need a mechanic for. Those are old fluids regardless of miles.
Jon
If you have no prior knowledge of service record, I would do it yourself. Nothing hard there that you need a mechanic for. Those are old fluids regardless of miles.
Jon
07-28-2011, 09:10 AM
#3
Ouch...that is $87 for parts and $500 for the labor. I would be on top of the engine oil and the rear end gear oil. The other items are not a pressing issue at this time. When you install your Stall, I would flush the trans system at that time.
07-28-2011, 09:41 AM
#4
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I plan on doing an engine oil change at 23,000 miles. The last service record on Carfax was at 20,029 miles in November so I assume that was its last oil change. What oil is recommended - synthetic vs non-synthetic?
I don't have the tools to do fluid changes at the house really, no catch pans, ramps, etc. Couple buddies do though, if I can get the fluids myself and do them that would be great.
I don't have the tools to do fluid changes at the house really, no catch pans, ramps, etc. Couple buddies do though, if I can get the fluids myself and do them that would be great.
07-28-2011, 10:17 AM
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I would run synthetic engine oil and synthetic gear oil since your still on the stock rear differential. As said above, flush the tranny when you do the stall. You will have to anyways so you might as well wait. Radiator is easy, drain, flush with a hose, and refill. Turn the heater on for the heater core and recheck the level. P/S and brake fluid are still good imo with those miles but i would do them in the near future just for peace of mind since they are probably twelve yrs old. Im a freak about preventive maintenance so maybe thats just me.
07-28-2011, 10:41 AM
#6
Obviously a well maintained car is a happy and well-performing car, but I was quoted $587 including tax - not sure about labor - to change the essential fluids in my car from my mechanic. He said it should be fine to wait a little while but considering I am going to start modifying the car to make it faster I was wondering if I should go ahead and change all the fluids first or not (maybe some but not all?)
He suggested flushes and fresh fluid for: Coolant, Power Steering, Brakes, Transmission, and Rear Differential.
The car only has 22,250 miles on it but it is a '99 so those might all be the original fluids from 12 years ago...
Within the year, +/- a couple months depending on TSP's stainless production run schedule, I am planning on adding a lid, lower control arms, headers, y-pipe, and a higher stall torque converter. Maybe an intake manifold/tb if I find a deal. Might also switch get better performing street tires all around or maybe NT555Rs for just the rear 2.
He suggested flushes and fresh fluid for: Coolant, Power Steering, Brakes, Transmission, and Rear Differential.
The car only has 22,250 miles on it but it is a '99 so those might all be the original fluids from 12 years ago...
Within the year, +/- a couple months depending on TSP's stainless production run schedule, I am planning on adding a lid, lower control arms, headers, y-pipe, and a higher stall torque converter. Maybe an intake manifold/tb if I find a deal. Might also switch get better performing street tires all around or maybe NT555Rs for just the rear 2.
As mentioned....all new fluid is under $100.00 If you lived near me I would do it all for you for $50.00 labor on my friends car lift. Its a breeze to change all the fluids.
.
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07-28-2011, 10:48 AM
#8
I know some people don't work on their own cars, and thats fine....but a coolant flush is seriously easy.
Best/easiest way to flush and get every drop of old coolant out.
-Cold engine.
-Remove radiator fill cap.
-Remove the t-stat from the housing. Leave the housing attached to the rubber radiator hose, just remove the 2 housing bolts and pull it away from the water to pump to get to the t-stat. (2-3 minute job).
-Put t-stat housing back on. (1 minute) Just put one bolt in, no need to put them both in, there’s no pressure in the system during the flush.
-Take the entire radiator drain valve (petcock) "off" and let it drain, don't just open the valve itself. It'll drain faster with it off and that’s what you want. ((Buy a new petcock valve before starting this flush process, sometimes they break when you remove them all the way just because they're cheap plastic and they get briddle over time, they're like $2.00))
-Take a hose and stick it in the radiator fill cap, running medium to high.
-Start the engine.
-Turn heat on full blast
-Let it run for about 15-20 minutes or until the water is running out the drain CLEAR.
-((If you want to, you can wait till it runs clear, "close" the drain valve, add some degreaser (I use ½ gallon of Formula 88 to clean mine) and let it run for 15 minutes, then let it sit for 15 minutes, then run it for 5 minutes, then drain it all again. Then open the drain and put the hose in for about 5 minutes run it all out till its CLEAR. The degreaser will help break up the crap thats stuck DEEP in the BLOCK that sits and swirls and doesn't like to come out.)) ***NO…degreaser will not hurt anything.***
-When it runs clear your entire system is clean.
-Remove the overflow reservoir from the car and clean it out real good. (I had to use gasoline to clean mine out because the sludge and grime was so thick inside. The gas broke it all down and then it flushed right out. I filled it about 1/3 up with gasoline and shook the hell out of it real vigorously, the black stuff kept coming out. I did that like 4 separate times with gasoline till no more chunks of black crap came out. Make sure the lines that go to the reservoir are also cleaned out. Or just buy a new piece of 3/8” heater hose and replace that line, 3 feet will do, then cut to fit. My sludge came from my power steering fluid leaking into my coolant system.)
-Put the t-stat back in.
-Put the overflow reservoir back in.
-Put the drain valve back in. Use the new one, what the hell.
-Put half a jug of Dexcool in the radiator. (Or if you live in very cold places, 1 to 1 ½ jugs of Dexcool)
-Fill the rest with water.
you do not need to use distilled water, clean hose water is just fine, just make sure your city water is clean and not total crap quality.
**Bleeding the system of air:
Take the radiator cap off when its COLD, start it up and let it idle, and let it warm up till the t-stat opens. I rapidly squeeze the upper and lower radiator hose like 20 times while its warming up to help move any air bubbles through the system and by the t-stat on the engine side. When the t-stat opens you’ll see the level drop as you squeeze it, its sucking the coolant through the system. You will also see the coolant start to flow in the radiator fill neck, once it starts to flow the level should drop down a lot, immediately top it off with coolant/water. Then the flow will stop when the t-stat closes. Wait one more time for the t-stat to open again and start to flow, if it drops down again top it off again. Do it a 3rd time if you want to make sure. When the level does NOT drop down when the t-stat opens and coolant is flowing....you're system is free of air bubbles. I always massage the upper hose during the whole process to keep any air bubbles moving through. Always works like a charm. Just keep checking your temp gauge until the t-stat opens for the first time to make sure it’s not sitting there overheating from a trapped bubble. May take 10-15 minutes for the t-stat to open the first time.
If you do start to get hot while sitting there and the t-stat will not open…..you have an air bubble on the engine side of the t-stat. Shut the engine off and rapidly squeeze the upper and lower radiator hoses again. Then start the engine again and see if the t-stat will open. Sometimes you just have to work those hoses to move the air through. Even after it seems topped off after a couple cycles…check it the next time you have a cold engine…top off if needed.
Flushing the Power steering fluid and replacing it with fresh....takes two people and about 15 minutes.
Changing the rear-end fluid takes a ratchet, a new gasket and about 30-45 minutes. By yourself. Just need the axle two be jacked up on and put on jack stands.
Brake fluid change is two person job, but can be tricky. But a mechanic can do it in a matter of 30 minutes on a lift.
Transmission fluid....takes a machine to do it right. Mechanics have that machine that exchanges all the fluid with new fluid. You must also change the filter.
Just don;t get ripped off...........its getting ridiculous hearing about all the people getting screwed lately.
.
Best/easiest way to flush and get every drop of old coolant out.
-Cold engine.
-Remove radiator fill cap.
-Remove the t-stat from the housing. Leave the housing attached to the rubber radiator hose, just remove the 2 housing bolts and pull it away from the water to pump to get to the t-stat. (2-3 minute job).
-Put t-stat housing back on. (1 minute) Just put one bolt in, no need to put them both in, there’s no pressure in the system during the flush.
-Take the entire radiator drain valve (petcock) "off" and let it drain, don't just open the valve itself. It'll drain faster with it off and that’s what you want. ((Buy a new petcock valve before starting this flush process, sometimes they break when you remove them all the way just because they're cheap plastic and they get briddle over time, they're like $2.00))
-Take a hose and stick it in the radiator fill cap, running medium to high.
-Start the engine.
-Turn heat on full blast
-Let it run for about 15-20 minutes or until the water is running out the drain CLEAR.
-((If you want to, you can wait till it runs clear, "close" the drain valve, add some degreaser (I use ½ gallon of Formula 88 to clean mine) and let it run for 15 minutes, then let it sit for 15 minutes, then run it for 5 minutes, then drain it all again. Then open the drain and put the hose in for about 5 minutes run it all out till its CLEAR. The degreaser will help break up the crap thats stuck DEEP in the BLOCK that sits and swirls and doesn't like to come out.)) ***NO…degreaser will not hurt anything.***
-When it runs clear your entire system is clean.
-Remove the overflow reservoir from the car and clean it out real good. (I had to use gasoline to clean mine out because the sludge and grime was so thick inside. The gas broke it all down and then it flushed right out. I filled it about 1/3 up with gasoline and shook the hell out of it real vigorously, the black stuff kept coming out. I did that like 4 separate times with gasoline till no more chunks of black crap came out. Make sure the lines that go to the reservoir are also cleaned out. Or just buy a new piece of 3/8” heater hose and replace that line, 3 feet will do, then cut to fit. My sludge came from my power steering fluid leaking into my coolant system.)
-Put the t-stat back in.
-Put the overflow reservoir back in.
-Put the drain valve back in. Use the new one, what the hell.
-Put half a jug of Dexcool in the radiator. (Or if you live in very cold places, 1 to 1 ½ jugs of Dexcool)
-Fill the rest with water.
you do not need to use distilled water, clean hose water is just fine, just make sure your city water is clean and not total crap quality.
**Bleeding the system of air:
Take the radiator cap off when its COLD, start it up and let it idle, and let it warm up till the t-stat opens. I rapidly squeeze the upper and lower radiator hose like 20 times while its warming up to help move any air bubbles through the system and by the t-stat on the engine side. When the t-stat opens you’ll see the level drop as you squeeze it, its sucking the coolant through the system. You will also see the coolant start to flow in the radiator fill neck, once it starts to flow the level should drop down a lot, immediately top it off with coolant/water. Then the flow will stop when the t-stat closes. Wait one more time for the t-stat to open again and start to flow, if it drops down again top it off again. Do it a 3rd time if you want to make sure. When the level does NOT drop down when the t-stat opens and coolant is flowing....you're system is free of air bubbles. I always massage the upper hose during the whole process to keep any air bubbles moving through. Always works like a charm. Just keep checking your temp gauge until the t-stat opens for the first time to make sure it’s not sitting there overheating from a trapped bubble. May take 10-15 minutes for the t-stat to open the first time.
If you do start to get hot while sitting there and the t-stat will not open…..you have an air bubble on the engine side of the t-stat. Shut the engine off and rapidly squeeze the upper and lower radiator hoses again. Then start the engine again and see if the t-stat will open. Sometimes you just have to work those hoses to move the air through. Even after it seems topped off after a couple cycles…check it the next time you have a cold engine…top off if needed.
Flushing the Power steering fluid and replacing it with fresh....takes two people and about 15 minutes.
Changing the rear-end fluid takes a ratchet, a new gasket and about 30-45 minutes. By yourself. Just need the axle two be jacked up on and put on jack stands.
Brake fluid change is two person job, but can be tricky. But a mechanic can do it in a matter of 30 minutes on a lift.
Transmission fluid....takes a machine to do it right. Mechanics have that machine that exchanges all the fluid with new fluid. You must also change the filter.
Just don;t get ripped off...........its getting ridiculous hearing about all the people getting screwed lately.
.
07-28-2011, 11:02 AM
#9
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Thread Starter
Thanks for the write up. Keep the discussion coming, this is very informative and helpful. My dad always took the car places so we don't have many car-specific tools in the garage. We don't even have jackstands or a floor jack.
As far as my mechanic. He is pretty good to me, I know him through our church. He usually cuts me a deal on labor costs. His turnaround time is good too. I've had a couple instances where he says something is wrong fixes it and it ends up not working so he fixes it again and doesn't charge at all for the first time. He'll also let me bring parts to him so I just pay labor. Right now its $72/hr, most of the stuff I've went in for lately was PCV system issues with my Taurus and he tried fixing it 3 different times before it finally worked, all in all that was $58 total, $36 labor and $22 parts but yeah if I can get it done myself with a friend that would be great.
As far as my mechanic. He is pretty good to me, I know him through our church. He usually cuts me a deal on labor costs. His turnaround time is good too. I've had a couple instances where he says something is wrong fixes it and it ends up not working so he fixes it again and doesn't charge at all for the first time. He'll also let me bring parts to him so I just pay labor. Right now its $72/hr, most of the stuff I've went in for lately was PCV system issues with my Taurus and he tried fixing it 3 different times before it finally worked, all in all that was $58 total, $36 labor and $22 parts but yeah if I can get it done myself with a friend that would be great.
07-28-2011, 11:13 AM
#10
Thanks for the write up. Keep the discussion coming, this is very informative and helpful. My dad always took the car places so we don't have many car-specific tools in the garage. We don't even have jackstands or a floor jack.
As far as my mechanic. He is pretty good to me, I know him through our church. He usually cuts me a deal on labor costs. His turnaround time is good too. I've had a couple instances where he says something is wrong fixes it and it ends up not working so he fixes it again and doesn't charge at all for the first time. He'll also let me bring parts to him so I just pay labor. Right now its $72/hr, most of the stuff I've went in for lately was PCV system issues with my Taurus and he tried fixing it 3 different times before it finally worked, all in all that was $58 total, $36 labor and $22 parts but yeah if I can get it done myself with a friend that would be great.
As far as my mechanic. He is pretty good to me, I know him through our church. He usually cuts me a deal on labor costs. His turnaround time is good too. I've had a couple instances where he says something is wrong fixes it and it ends up not working so he fixes it again and doesn't charge at all for the first time. He'll also let me bring parts to him so I just pay labor. Right now its $72/hr, most of the stuff I've went in for lately was PCV system issues with my Taurus and he tried fixing it 3 different times before it finally worked, all in all that was $58 total, $36 labor and $22 parts but yeah if I can get it done myself with a friend that would be great.
He will be done changing all your fluids in 2 hours. And hopefully not half *** it and he'll do it right and actually get ALL the old dirty fluid out..........
With tranny fluid, power steering fluid and brake fluid. Allot of mechanics just pull the old drain valve (or drain whatever comes out) then they just top it off. Thats half-assed.
The tranny must be done by the machine. The rear-end needs to be cleaned out after the fluid is drained. The brake fluid needs two people and all the fluid needs to be bled and replaced at the same time with new fluid. Same with coolant, most guys will just drain the radiator, then top it back off.
Not saying he will....but if he is that type of guy......and you're not there to watch everything or you don't do certain things yourself.......why bother changing the fluids at all.
Just sayin.....
.
07-28-2011, 01:11 PM
#11
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Uh that price is pretty reasonable for what would be getting done. I don't know why anyone is trying to say his mechanic is "ripping him off." I work at a dealership and we charge about 100$/hr
07-28-2011, 01:16 PM
#12
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Sorry accidentally hit post on my phone. Anyways it doesn't matter how long it actually takes, they follow guidelines for how many hours a tech get paid for a certain job. It's called flat rate. I know it might be hard tp comprehend but it's a bussiness. If you don't want to take it to a shop because of the price then do it yourself. Some people prefer to take it or are uncapable of doing it themselves...
07-28-2011, 01:49 PM
#13
Obviously a well maintained car is a happy and well-performing car, but I was quoted $587 including tax - not sure about labor - to change the essential fluids in my car from my mechanic. He said it should be fine to wait a little while but considering I am going to start modifying the car to make it faster I was wondering if I should go ahead and change all the fluids first or not (maybe some but not all?)
He suggested flushes and fresh fluid for: Coolant, Power Steering, Brakes, Transmission, and Rear Differential.
The car only has 22,250 miles on it but it is a '99 so those might all be the original fluids from 12 years ago...
Within the year, +/- a couple months depending on TSP's stainless production run schedule, I am planning on adding a lid, lower control arms, headers, y-pipe, and a higher stall torque converter. Maybe an intake manifold/tb if I find a deal. Might also switch get better performing street tires all around or maybe NT555Rs for just the rear 2.
He suggested flushes and fresh fluid for: Coolant, Power Steering, Brakes, Transmission, and Rear Differential.
The car only has 22,250 miles on it but it is a '99 so those might all be the original fluids from 12 years ago...
Within the year, +/- a couple months depending on TSP's stainless production run schedule, I am planning on adding a lid, lower control arms, headers, y-pipe, and a higher stall torque converter. Maybe an intake manifold/tb if I find a deal. Might also switch get better performing street tires all around or maybe NT555Rs for just the rear 2.
Age, or milage in most cases. Brakes are subjective to how much you really use them and for those weekend cruising, no auto-x or, heavy use I would not bother. MOST times the bleeder screw is frozen anyways. Might be a good way of getting someone else to do the job.
I would top off the P/S fluid, if its brown/burnt, you could un hookthe return line and slip a hose to a open clear container and run new fluid through until it clear up if you had an issue.
07-28-2011, 01:57 PM
#14
Book rate is horseshit, anyway.
07-28-2011, 02:12 PM
#15
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I didn't say it wasn't easy. I said the price is pretty average. No need to get your panties in a bundle. I was stating the facts to why his mechanic isn't ripping him off. I never said I agreed by the labor rates for jobs, because your right they are horse ****. I bet the big Mac at McDonald cost them less than 50 cents also yet cost me 5$....
07-28-2011, 02:17 PM
#16
I didn't say it wasn't easy. I said the price is pretty average. No need to get your panties in a bundle. I was stating the facts to why his mechanic isn't ripping him off. I never said I agreed by the labor rates for jobs, because your right they are horse ****. I bet the big Mac at McDonald cost them less than 50 cents also yet cost me 5$....
Fluid changing is definitly gravy work and most who work @ an import dealership would agree. The ball busting no profit work is not common but the regular matience jobs are more frequent and in the end, they need to make it work for their business.
The jobs as a whole is not a big issue for a DIY'er but each person needs to decide what they can deal with.
Edit: Going back to my prev post, example is the brake bleeders, most freeze and break off and if they break them, they got to fix them and the more time they are working, the less time a tech has to work on something else so depending on the situation all this stuff needs to be built into a quote. Hell my detailing quotes can range due to how bad a car looks. Not all jobs are created equal.
07-28-2011, 02:36 PM
#17
I didn't say it wasn't easy. I said the price is pretty average. No need to get your panties in a bundle. I was stating the facts to why his mechanic isn't ripping him off. I never said I agreed by the labor rates for jobs, because your right they are horse ****. I bet the big Mac at McDonald cost them less than 50 cents also yet cost me 5$....
07-28-2011, 02:48 PM
#18
Sorry accidentally hit post on my phone. Anyways it doesn't matter how long it actually takes, they follow guidelines for how many hours a tech get paid for a certain job. It's called flat rate. I know it might be hard tp comprehend but it's a bussiness. If you don't want to take it to a shop because of the price then do it yourself. Some people prefer to take it or are uncapable of doing it themselves...
Flat rate is horseshit........mechanics always, or at least 99% of the time finish a job WAY sooner than the bullshit labor book says. Hell, I can beat almost anything in a labor book and I'm not a mechanic.
There are mechanics all over every city that will charge you for REAL time....which saves a customer allot of money and nobody gets screwed. Mechanic is paid for his time and the customer saves money...............
NEVER go to a dealership...........thats for suckers.
.
Last edited by LS6427; 07-28-2011 at 02:54 PM.
07-28-2011, 02:52 PM
#19
My friend works at a Dodge/Chrysler dealership.....he also has a dual bay shop with his own car lift. He charges $50.00 an hour for labor. On allot of jobs he charges half the time what the book says.....on jobs that he can. Like when he rebuilds my tranny, which he installed last weekend. Book says 12 hours. He charges me $50.00/hr for 6 hours. Why....he knocks it out quick and he gets side work thats cash. Shop rate at his stealership...$120.00/hr.....hahahaha Suckers.....
He simply doesn't **** people over..............he makes good side money and helps people save money.
I'm going there later to just use the lift to install my new 02 sensors and mess with my tranny cooler. I don't get charged when I just use his lift though. He is a friend of mine after all.
.
He simply doesn't **** people over..............he makes good side money and helps people save money.
I'm going there later to just use the lift to install my new 02 sensors and mess with my tranny cooler. I don't get charged when I just use his lift though. He is a friend of mine after all.
.
07-28-2011, 03:45 PM
#20
One of the posters hit on something here that *I* feel is important. Just b/c someone charges $500 vs another who charges $250 doesn't mean the more expensive shop is doing a better/more thorough job! Are the mechanics really "flushing" out all of the crap in the rad, diff etc? I bet if you did it yourself you would do a better job and take some pride in your work by not rushing the job. Look at it this way; they are lots of resources on this site to help you, you get acquainted with your car and save some $!