VERY TRICKY problem... maybe headgasket
03-14-2012, 11:18 PM
#1
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VERY TRICKY problem... maybe headgasket Ok quick overview of the FACTS: 
That way no time wasted on the typical issues.
Compression:
All 8 cylinder are dead on 210 psi MAX
Idle:
Steady, no lumpiness
Coil packs:
Tested and verified working with spark plug tester tool + switched a new set and retested new set.
Coolant:
No coolant loss and non coming out the rear pipe
Plugs all checked and firing + swapped out a new set
Injectors:
All tested good by idle test - pulling each injector at a time to hear idle change.
Oil looks good, does not look like milk shake. Car never over heats and has never over heated.
HOWEVER
there are milky stuff on my valve cover. I have a custom crank case evacuation system installed.
Also i do EXTENSIVE idling at warm up. No flaming plz about extensive idling and bad for the car... i know the talk and im on board with you 100%
The reason for extensive idle is because i don't drive this car on the street. I idle it for about 15 minutes before i hit the track so everything is hot and read when i get there. I idle it on the trailer on the way to the track sometimes.
the milk shake on the oil lid doesnt really concern me as it COULD be idling and also i had this issue before and after running the car hard, the milk shake is GONE..... but i never had the vibration issue.
My other problem is when i rev the motor, there is a slight.... very slight vibration.
I pulled the clutch and flywheel and they are typically sent out for rotationally assembly balanced . Sent out for re balance again and came back with no issues.
When i run the car with just the flywheel attached, the vibration is still there but i can barely feel it... but enough to nag at me.
Here are some pics of the valve cover off.
Driverside valve PVC hole
Driverside underside of valve cover - you can see the caps i welded to prevent oil from getting sucked up by the Crank case evc system.
Also you can see the milky stuff
Driverside head... looks clean. no milk
Passenger side head. looks clean. no milk
Oil cap
so.. what im trying to find out is .... WHY THE ROUGH running... not very rough just a little bit but i know its not normal.
My clutch is getting looked at and coming back tomorrow. In the mean time i redid all the wiring for the car.
Right now i have some choices you can choose from
1) Put in clutch and wiring harness and fire up the car and see if that fixes vibration
2) Pull motor and redo both head gaskets just for the hell of it
3) Your choice / recommendation <--- i rather not pull the headgasket off if anyone has a better idea. Just dont want to waste 2 perfect gaskets + stud set
Thanks for your time and efforts.
the BOTTOM LINE is i NEED to fix the slight vibration. I tach out this motor everytime drift so i cant have any vibration in it.
Any ideas will be greatly appreciated.
That way no time wasted on the typical issues.
Compression:
All 8 cylinder are dead on 210 psi MAX
Idle:
Steady, no lumpiness
Coil packs:
Tested and verified working with spark plug tester tool + switched a new set and retested new set.
Coolant:
No coolant loss and non coming out the rear pipe
Plugs all checked and firing + swapped out a new set
Injectors:
All tested good by idle test - pulling each injector at a time to hear idle change.
Oil looks good, does not look like milk shake. Car never over heats and has never over heated.
HOWEVER
there are milky stuff on my valve cover. I have a custom crank case evacuation system installed.
Also i do EXTENSIVE idling at warm up. No flaming plz about extensive idling and bad for the car... i know the talk and im on board with you 100%
The reason for extensive idle is because i don't drive this car on the street. I idle it for about 15 minutes before i hit the track so everything is hot and read when i get there. I idle it on the trailer on the way to the track sometimes.
the milk shake on the oil lid doesnt really concern me as it COULD be idling and also i had this issue before and after running the car hard, the milk shake is GONE..... but i never had the vibration issue.
My other problem is when i rev the motor, there is a slight.... very slight vibration.
I pulled the clutch and flywheel and they are typically sent out for rotationally assembly balanced . Sent out for re balance again and came back with no issues.
When i run the car with just the flywheel attached, the vibration is still there but i can barely feel it... but enough to nag at me.
Here are some pics of the valve cover off.
Driverside valve PVC hole
Driverside underside of valve cover - you can see the caps i welded to prevent oil from getting sucked up by the Crank case evc system.
Also you can see the milky stuff
Driverside head... looks clean. no milk
Passenger side head. looks clean. no milk
Oil cap
so.. what im trying to find out is .... WHY THE ROUGH running... not very rough just a little bit but i know its not normal.
My clutch is getting looked at and coming back tomorrow. In the mean time i redid all the wiring for the car.
Right now i have some choices you can choose from
1) Put in clutch and wiring harness and fire up the car and see if that fixes vibration
2) Pull motor and redo both head gaskets just for the hell of it
3) Your choice / recommendation <--- i rather not pull the headgasket off if anyone has a better idea. Just dont want to waste 2 perfect gaskets + stud set
Thanks for your time and efforts.
the BOTTOM LINE is i NEED to fix the slight vibration. I tach out this motor everytime drift so i cant have any vibration in it.
Any ideas will be greatly appreciated.
03-15-2012, 04:18 PM
#3
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...your engine has rabbies and is foaming at the mouth...
..so you think water got into the engine and was carried (pumped) throught?
Does the oily foam smell like antifreeze?
..so you think water got into the engine and was carried (pumped) throught?
Does the oily foam smell like antifreeze?
03-15-2012, 04:40 PM
#4
i really doubt you have a headgasket issue if your coolant level never changes...i just think yours car dosent get driven enough, and 15 minutes of idle time is nothing compared to driving the car and getting it nice and hot to burn off that condensation that collects in the motor.
03-17-2012, 07:48 PM
#5
You are not evacuating the crank case enough and or your thermostat is not high enough.
I would try to hook PCV back up with a catch can.
You are not generating enough heat in the engine to burn off the water in the oil, pcv helps with this.
When you shut an engine down as it cools it condensates inside, thats where the moisture is coming from.
I put a Moroso vented catch can with a #10 to it off a valve cover, mine is fine but I street drive mine and it burns off the moisture.
Have you run the car enough to burn off the moisture? Say 40 minutes of driving?
Alcohol cars have this issue because they run so cool.
I would try to hook PCV back up with a catch can.
You are not generating enough heat in the engine to burn off the water in the oil, pcv helps with this.
When you shut an engine down as it cools it condensates inside, thats where the moisture is coming from.
I put a Moroso vented catch can with a #10 to it off a valve cover, mine is fine but I street drive mine and it burns off the moisture.
Have you run the car enough to burn off the moisture? Say 40 minutes of driving?
Alcohol cars have this issue because they run so cool.
03-17-2012, 09:19 PM
#6
If its a track car...you should lose all that modified evac system.....put two breathers on it, one on each valve cover.
Then suck crankcase gases from the intake port and suck from the passenger side valve cover......and use a needle valve to adjust the suction.
Like mine.....it works like a charm. Its a 100% daily driver, so it'll work fine on yours too. Plus that milky white **** is because you have moisture in the oil that has not had time to burn off. 15 minutes is nowhere near enough time to burn off moisture in the crank case.
pic 1) needle valve, pcv, vacuum line.
pic 2) fuel filter on the drivers side valve cover
pic 3) same fuel filter on my valley cover port. ((that black hose was a test hose)
So I have the needle valve, filter on vally cover port, filter on driver valve cover. WORKS FLAWLESSLY.
.
Then suck crankcase gases from the intake port and suck from the passenger side valve cover......and use a needle valve to adjust the suction.
Like mine.....it works like a charm. Its a 100% daily driver, so it'll work fine on yours too. Plus that milky white **** is because you have moisture in the oil that has not had time to burn off. 15 minutes is nowhere near enough time to burn off moisture in the crank case.
pic 1) needle valve, pcv, vacuum line.
pic 2) fuel filter on the drivers side valve cover
pic 3) same fuel filter on my valley cover port. ((that black hose was a test hose)
So I have the needle valve, filter on vally cover port, filter on driver valve cover. WORKS FLAWLESSLY.
.
03-18-2012, 03:15 PM
#7
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ah awesome! thanks everyone for the reply
so what happened was my clutch pressure plate... the tip of a finger fell off. Not sure how but it did. Maybe 1 gram of material.... I brought it back to ACT and had them warranty fix it and once back on the car, purs like a kitten.
didnt think 1 gram would thrown off the rotational assembly so much but guess its a big difference when spinning at 2500 rpm.
Maybe i fixed some other issue too during trouble shooting process... never know
LS6427,
The crank case evacuation system has a second component that is not shown in the picture, there is a 1 way check valve in the exhaust pipe.
The reason im using the system is that no oil gets into my intake and thus degrading octane. The breather venting to atmosphere does not make vacuum in the crank case. This is a tried and proven system and makes ridiculous negative crank case pressure. I can rev the motor at idle, and when i try to take off the oil fill cap, there is maybe 2-3 lbs of pressure sucking the cap on.... so at high rpm i think the effects would be multiplied.
FASTFATBOY is correct that my engine never gets hot enough. I drilled some holes into the stock thermostat to improve cooling. When the car is "warmed up" with dual flex a lite (BEST FANS EVER!) its typically at 140.... with 1 fan on im at about 160.
When im at the track i typically never go above 180 even hot lapping.
My old ls1 drift car had a hell of a time cooling down..... 2 laps.... 200+
I popped a ring land on #7 while back. People say its due to engine running hot in the back... who knows. Keeping it cool FTW but hopefully not too cool.
Right now, car is running great. Comp is this weekend, do my best to spank the turbo 4 cylinders and rotary guys... V8 FTW
so what happened was my clutch pressure plate... the tip of a finger fell off. Not sure how but it did. Maybe 1 gram of material.... I brought it back to ACT and had them warranty fix it and once back on the car, purs like a kitten.
didnt think 1 gram would thrown off the rotational assembly so much but guess its a big difference when spinning at 2500 rpm.
Maybe i fixed some other issue too during trouble shooting process... never know
LS6427,
The crank case evacuation system has a second component that is not shown in the picture, there is a 1 way check valve in the exhaust pipe.
The reason im using the system is that no oil gets into my intake and thus degrading octane. The breather venting to atmosphere does not make vacuum in the crank case. This is a tried and proven system and makes ridiculous negative crank case pressure. I can rev the motor at idle, and when i try to take off the oil fill cap, there is maybe 2-3 lbs of pressure sucking the cap on.... so at high rpm i think the effects would be multiplied.
FASTFATBOY is correct that my engine never gets hot enough. I drilled some holes into the stock thermostat to improve cooling. When the car is "warmed up" with dual flex a lite (BEST FANS EVER!) its typically at 140.... with 1 fan on im at about 160.
When im at the track i typically never go above 180 even hot lapping.
My old ls1 drift car had a hell of a time cooling down..... 2 laps.... 200+
I popped a ring land on #7 while back. People say its due to engine running hot in the back... who knows. Keeping it cool FTW but hopefully not too cool.
Right now, car is running great. Comp is this weekend, do my best to spank the turbo 4 cylinders and rotary guys... V8 FTW
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03-20-2012, 08:28 PM
#8
There is a lot of moisture coming out of the crank case once it starts churning oil. I'm not sure why you think having that much pressure in a system that is meant to vent that suction is a good thing. Granted a valve regulates that pressure but you are putting contaminants back in the oil system by not venting pressure or dirty churned air and moisture
If you think cooling to the rear of the engine is a problem you should switch to a 98-2000 coolant cross over pipe that runs under the intake manifold to help cool the back of the motor
If you think cooling to the rear of the engine is a problem you should switch to a 98-2000 coolant cross over pipe that runs under the intake manifold to help cool the back of the motor
03-30-2012, 08:42 PM
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There is a lot of moisture coming out of the crank case once it starts churning oil. I'm not sure why you think having that much pressure in a system that is meant to vent that suction is a good thing. Granted a valve regulates that pressure but you are putting contaminants back in the oil system by not venting pressure or dirty churned air and moisture
If you think cooling to the rear of the engine is a problem you should switch to a 98-2000 coolant cross over pipe that runs under the intake manifold to help cool the back of the motor
If you think cooling to the rear of the engine is a problem you should switch to a 98-2000 coolant cross over pipe that runs under the intake manifold to help cool the back of the motor
pressure as in vacuum pressure? there is no positive crank case pressure in my system.. or technically there should not be any.
i can put a breather valve on the driver side and let the air work its way through to the passenger side pickup... is that what you had in mind?
