DriveitlikeIstoleit

I've searched all over the forums here and Googled and I can't figure out wtf is wrong with my car. There's no rhyme or reason as to which side it will pull to. I can be on a freshly paved highway or a podunk back road, the car pulls all over. I can hear a rubbing sound while I'm driving and after jacking up the car, it's both front wheels rubbing on the brake pads... the wear on the pads is relatively even. The pulling is getting progressively worse and it's been going on for months. The pulling doesn't change if I'm braking or accelerating.

I had to change the inner/outer tie rods about two months ago on the passenger side and then got it aligned. I've done the typical hold the wheel/tire at the 3 and 9 position and checked for slack, and then the 6 and 12 position to check for slack... making sure my tie rods and wheel bearings are OK. No issues there.

Please give some pointers if you can... it's to the point where a cop will pull me over because he thinks I'm drunk... I've actually hit the curb once it pulled so badly... and I don't think the brakes rubbing would cause it to pull this much? Is brake drag OK even if it's a little?

I'm mechanically inclined enough to fix things, but sometimes don't know what causes an issue. Once I know what it is, I can most likely fix it myself. Thanks everyone.

2001 Camaro SS, V8, 6 speed, 105,000 miles.

ChristopherWelkin

The wheels are rubbing on the brake PADS? Care to explain this a bit?

Also, you said you changed inner/outer tie rods, but only on the passenger side? You gotta do both man. It's like changing brake pads for just the right side, it throws off the car's balance

DriveitlikeIstoleit

Better word choice would probably help. The rotors are rubbing on the pads... on both sides.

I'm on a poor man's budget right now. I started a business a few months ago and am living off savings... if I can save money, I try to, but if it's something that HAS to be fixed, I can drop the $$ on it.

I don't think that by not changing the driver's side tie rods, there would be this much sloppiness in the driving, or am I wrong in thinking that?

I suspect this thing was in an accident before I bought it, the right seems to sit a little lower than the left... but if there was a somewhat decent amount of frame damage, I should have felt this pulling long ago. This started probably a year ago... maybe that can shed some more light on this.

I'm baffled as to what this can be...

Ken D

iTrader: (11)

how are your tires and shocks? does abs light come on? try jacking front end up and checking for play in hub assemblies. could also be bad rack

Ken D

iTrader: (11)

also check for bad ball joint or play in a arms. just some thoughts to help you what to look for

DriveitlikeIstoleit

Tires are in good shape... wear pattern looks fine as well. Probably a dumb question, but how do I check the condition of the shocks? There's almost 0 up or down movement when I apply pressure down on the top of the quarter panel/hood... that's how it was about a month ago when I thought they may be the issue, but never ruled that out since I didn't think that was a reliable way to check.

Low traction light comes on then ABS light almost every time I drive at this point... most times it just goes straight to the ABS light.

How do I rule out/diagnose the rack short of changing it out?

Ken D

iTrader: (11)

It's most likely your hub assembly since the lights are coming on. Jack the front end up an check for play. The bad hub assembly cause the abs and traction light to come on due to the speed sensors in them

DriveitlikeIstoleit

There's no play in the assembly when it's jacked up... that's what makes this all more confusing. No sign of wear on the hubs by doing that inspection, no slack when doing the tie rod inspection either.

Ken D

iTrader: (11)

still leaning towards hub assemblies, fits everything you are saying but hard to know for sure without seeing it. I would pull front wheels and rotors and spin hubs to see that they are not grinding or sticking

DriveitlikeIstoleit

No sticking, but a slight "grind" in both. Not sure if there's a negligible amount of this sound there should be just in its natural operation, or if it should always be 100% silent. My wife had a bad wheel bearing on another car one time and I could hear that from inside the car while driving. I'm definitely not hearing that in my car now and for as much as I'm being pulled around, would I not hear a more prominent grinding?

For less than $100 a pair, maybe I should just change them anyway while I have this all tore apart... I guess I can go and change the driver side inner/outer tie rods while I'm at it...

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

This to me sounds sort of like classic bump steer. Especially if the car might have been in a wreck and is sitting lower on one or both sides. Even riding down a smooth fresh blacktop, the suspension will articulate 1000 times per mile.

Two examples all with fresh alignments done:

1. 97 camaro. Struts were badly worn causing very little control over the front end. Replaced with bilsteins. Front now sits an inch higher, but actually back to stock height. Driver reports all the side to side pulling is now gone.

2. 99 trans am. Front end was lightened significantly, causing front to sit abnormally high. Steering very floaty and car grabs almost anything in the road. Even the paint stripes. Installed set of coilovers. Lowered too far. Similar issues as sitting too high. Installed bump steer kit. Issue resolved.

If you've checked everything over, maybe you need new front struts followed by an alignment. If you've lowered the car or previous owner did, you may need a bump steer kit.

TA_Freak

As I read this thread I cringe thinking about my TA. Sounds similar to mine. I've never been happy with mine since I lowered it. I've got nothing but good quality parts on it except the front lower ball joints... which I have some Moogs going in soon. I doubt that your hubs are shot. Mine have 300k on them and are still perfect. How are the front lower a-arm bushings? Also double check the lateral movement of the rear axles. The c-clip does wear out causing too much movement which results in rear steering. Just some food for thought. I hope you get it resolved.

DriveitlikeIstoleit

Sorry I took a while to get back... if I'm quiet, I'm working it. Also sorry if I seem ignorant about cars, but I am when compared with many on this site. After working on F-18's and commercial planes for some years, I can fix just about anything if I have the tools and time. I just don't delve too far into the theory behind things until something breaks, then I'm consumed with it until it's fixed.

So far I changed the rack and inner/outer tie rods. No change at all. I also changed the rubber o ring and piston boot on the front brakes because of the drag... the drag seems better, but the backs seem to be dragging a bit too... not sure if that would have a significant hand in this, but I'm doubtful it would.

Ok so time for a dumb question, how do I know my struts are bad? All I've ever known was if you push down on the car and release to look for significant bounce. When I push down on the front end, there's no movement at all. On the back, some slight bounce to it which seems normal.

I do suspect it was in a wreck... when you look at the car from the front, the passenger seat is cocked down to the right. There also seems to be a bigger gap in between the rear lid and taillight on the right side than there is on the left side... Something that didn't seem noticeable when I bought it.

No lowering was done, the only things not stock are what I did and that's headers to exhaust and anything I've had to replace that broke so far. As I sit here and type, I do remember the right header having a hard time going in... not sure if that's typical, but it's just another check in the "passenger side seems out of whack" box.

Still thinking bump steer kit? That's honestly something I haven't heard of yet.

I cringe every time I get in my car knowing I'm dealing with this. If I wanted to work on something this much I would have gotten a '69.

With the pulling to both sides, I don't suspect a hub yet either, especially with no grinding and no play in the wheel when it's jacked up.

Whats the easiest way to go about inspecting the lower A-arm bushings and where is that C-clip in the rear you mentioned?

Thanks all for your help so far. I'm more than ready for this to be fixed... it's a death trap right now and I'm tired of laying on my garage floor.

DriveitlikeIstoleit

I'm also looking over my alignment numbers from yesterday... I found a pretty good resource to help me analyze what's going on:

http://www.bowlingss.com/DownLoads/S...ual/WHEELA.PDF

AAA is limited in what they can adjust... next to nothing. After their work, this is what's off:

Front right camber recommended is .4, I'm at -.5 What part would fail to cause this?

Back right toe is .31, back left is .07, recommended is 0 What part would fail to cause this?

Rear thrust angle is .19

Haven't found recommended caster yet.

I bought the car about three years ago and it didn't do this, which makes me think something got progressively severely worn or way out of whack...

deebee

RE: Worn struts
I have replaced the struts in two of our vehicles, albeit neither are an f-body.

The first one is an SUV and around town if you hit a bump or dip in the road the front end would bounce up and down, but not badly. It was barely noticeable. But on the highway it was downright dangerous. It bounced up and down so badly that the dipsticks in the engine/tranny vibrated right out and the airbox came apart.

The second car was similar but not as bad as the struts were just starting to go. It would have a slight vibration at highway speed, like the tires were out of balance. Around town it was ok but when you hit bumps the front end would bounce a bit. I drove beside it one day down the road and you could actually see the front end bouncing when my g/f hit bumps with it.

My best explanation is your front end is like a basketball being dribbled sometimes, lol.

I wish I could help you more but your issues could be almost anything. If you think it has been collision damaged a decent bodyshop will look it over for you. I can usually tell within seconds of seeing a car if something has been poorly repaired.

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

If your whole front end is still stock you shouldn't need a bump steer kit. But worn shocks can allow the suspension to sit "wrong" and lead to bump steer.

Also, due to the design of the front end, changing height changes everything. If your shocks are worn, the car can sit lower and throw the whole thing out.

Another way to tell is braking. Worn shocks cause poor braking performance. If you've noticed a degradation in brake performance that could indicate shocks.

Just some random thoughts. But to answer your question you should not need a bump steer kit on a stick front end

Spartan7

iTrader: (7)

What's the rest of that alignment look like? Take it somewhere with a competent alignment tech that knows what he's doing. A good one will be able to tell you if you've got worn components (ball joints, tie rod ends, etc).

And we don't have struts, they're shocks.

DriveitlikeIstoleit

There's no abnormal bounce to it when I go over things. If anything it lacks bounce. There's pretty much zero movement when I push down on the hood, the back has a little. I would think the little bit of up and down in the back is what you should typically get, the lack of movement in the front is what I question...

Nobody wants to just take a quick look at this thing around here... it's all about the money.

Thank you Braking seems fine...

I initially posted what I thought were the problem areas, but attached is the whole alignment to give you a better idea of what I'm dealing with.

I'm supposed to take this to the dealer tomorrow for a 4 wheel alignment. What can be adjusted on these cars? That rear toe is scary, is that something that can even be adjusted on the rear?

What parts would cause these numbers to be out of whack? There has to be a cause, worn parts I'm thinking since this happened over time.

Frustrated...

kerondrick

Ran into the same problem. All suspension components (struts, upper and lower control arms w ball joints, inner and outer tie rods, wheel hubs, tires) replaced on my 96 camaro except for rack n pinion and the rag joint. Still have random pulling on the road. Stock height and had an allignment done no issues found. Rag joint looks fine. I am inclined to think its that rack n pinion. No idea how to diagnose it, no leaks at all.

SteveC

I agree with this 100%