Power window issue
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Power window issue I have a 2000 SS Camaro that has 28k on it. When I started it this spring, the drivers side window powered itself down. It was up, but went down, controlled, as soon as I turned the ignition on. It would not go back up. I thought it was likely the switch being stuck, so I replaced that as it was only $11 for a replacement. That didn't help. Passenger window works fine from either side switch. So I did a bunch of digging on here and figure it's either the motor itself of the express down module. I'm a little suspect of it being the motor itself as it has such low miles, has never acted up to seem like it was going out, and powered itself down normally just like it would if I would have been putting it down with the switch.
Anyway, is there any way that I can test either of these first? I'd rather not tear into the door panel if it isn't needed. I can hear the clicking under the dash when I press the switch, but it doesn't seem to be consistent. Meaning I don't get a click every time I press down on the switch. That said, the window doesn't move an at all regardless of whether I hear a click.
TIA for any advice.
Anyway, is there any way that I can test either of these first? I'd rather not tear into the door panel if it isn't needed. I can hear the clicking under the dash when I press the switch, but it doesn't seem to be consistent. Meaning I don't get a click every time I press down on the switch. That said, the window doesn't move an at all regardless of whether I hear a click.
TIA for any advice.
TECH Addict
Joined: Oct 2016
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From: PDX-OR-USA
Have you tried pushing down on the window while someone pushes the button?
I had a Impala that if left parked the seals would stick to the windows, and they would overload the
motor and pop the fuse..
I had a Impala that if left parked the seals would stick to the windows, and they would overload the
motor and pop the fuse..
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,328
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From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
The express down module is at rest when the window is being raised. I suppose it's possible that the relay inside the module could get stuck in the active position but then you would have the window motor trying to lower the window at all times when powered (i.e. whenever the ignition is on) because it would have power and ground all the time. You could test this with a multimeter by checking continuity on the express down module pins (the module is easy to reach - it's in a pocket at the base of the firewall behind the center console). In the rest position (when unplugged from the harness) there should be continuity between pin D and pin E. There should be no continuity between pin D and pin C.
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
Since you already tried replacing the switch, I would next try looking at that express down module as mentioned above. The fact that it powered itself down when you first gave it ignition power, without touching anything else, is an important consideration here. This is not a typical failure mode for the motor itself, in fact I don't think I've ever heard of a window motor failing quite in this way on a 4th gen.
I don't know what you guys are talking about! I've had several motors die on me like this. (Goes down but won't come up.) It's the thermal resistor failure. The resistor sees a little more load as the window goes up.
Your window motor knows nothing of miles. It sits inside the door, which is not well protected from the weather. (Its very wet in there!) Your motor has something on it that can be worse than miles - it has years... in a hot rusting environment.
There is a thermal resistor in the motor, made of metal, which cuts the motor off when it senses that the window has reached the extent of its travel. (All the way up or down.) This part commonly wears out and when it does, the motor will refuse to operate or will shut down prematurely. If this is your failure mode, things will get progressively worse until the motor ceases to work entirely.
If you let the motor cool down, the motor may bring the glass up when you turn on the car. Once you get it up, you should probably not run the motor again unless you are ready to swap it out. (Testing at the connector can't hurt, either. You'll need to get in there anyway.)
There is a thermal resistor in the motor, made of metal, which cuts the motor off when it senses that the window has reached the extent of its travel. (All the way up or down.) This part commonly wears out and when it does, the motor will refuse to operate or will shut down prematurely. If this is your failure mode, things will get progressively worse until the motor ceases to work entirely.
If you let the motor cool down, the motor may bring the glass up when you turn on the car. Once you get it up, you should probably not run the motor again unless you are ready to swap it out. (Testing at the connector can't hurt, either. You'll need to get in there anyway.)
If you get to changing the motor, we highly recommend you use the shbox method. This involves drilling some holes in the door, but will save your door from other long term damage/wear.
The thing you want to avoid is drilling out the regulator rivets. The regulator MUST be riveted to the door (with special rivets) due to the material and each time these are drilled out, it tears up the door a little bit.
The thing you want to avoid is drilling out the regulator rivets. The regulator MUST be riveted to the door (with special rivets) due to the material and each time these are drilled out, it tears up the door a little bit.
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Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
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Verdad Gallardo Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
It also sounds like the OP's car is stored indoors. If so, weathering of the motor wouldn't be much of an issue - especially if the OP rarely or never takes a hose to the car (my '98 hasn't seen water since 2005, and age alone so far hasn't killed them as both original motors are still working strong at 20 years old).
To be sure, sometimes the motors do fail even with low miles and garage storage but, again, that part about it lowering itself is not a common failure mode in my experience.
The key here, as RPM WS6 mentioned, is that the window went down on its own with no apparent input from the switch. Yes, it's likely to be a motor problem but that detail makes it worth investigating the express down module first - especially since it is so much easier to access and test.
It just takes one trip outside in a rain storm to start the rusting process. Maybe we should keep our cars all dry?
I was finally able to get to a schematic:
As far as I can tell, a stuck Express Down Relay or wiring short would be the only thing that could cause this to happen. (Auto-down on power with no ability to go back up.) Measuring the polarity at the motor connector terminals and/or express down connector should tell the story.)