mission accomplished got that dam thing plugged in.

felt it w/ braile method this upper plug can be sean thought the square hole if you know where to look.

now I'll lace the wires down rear section inside the panel.plastic sheet the door cover. may even refix the dreaded panel crack.

edit: the key FOB is weak but did lock won't unlock it mite be time to replace w/ a new FOB.

next on door is find a speaker mount the door didn't come w/ one.
I actually built a enclosure in my original door don't want to do that again. but now I know everything inside door gets wet I need some speaker protection from moisture. thanks again WSsix

 

A lot of times after doing this type of work, I find my main battery runs down with all the electrical fiddling. Either the cranking battery or the battery in the FOB may just need a charge/new battery.

 

Drill those big honkin' factory rivets. You will be thankful you did. Sheez. Been hanging and lurking here for years, and just had to comment on my experience with replacing a window motor on my '02 Camaro SS. I collected many tips, watched a number of youtube videos and read the few things the factory manual said about this. So many of these recommend drilling holes in an already minimally stable inner door panel to preclude drilling the 4 factory rivets out to release the regulator. Drilling the factory rivets to allow complete removal of the regulator will result in a much better long term solution. Once the regulator is on your bench lock its helper spring in place by bolting the regulator frame to the sector gear. My AC Delco Professional line replacement came with the correct locking nuts and bolts to put it all back together just fine. I added some blue loctite for sanity. It all went back together just fine, the AC Delco supplied bolts and lock nuts worked for the motor attachment to the regulator, and for attaching the regulator back to the inner door panel. A little bit of a challenge to get to the latter but it is straight forward.

Just my 0.02 worth at 70 working on every car I've ever owned.

Gerry-

 

Replacing the window motors with anything other than the upgraded motors that won't just fail again is a waste of taking the door panel off if you ask me.

LUP KNOWS:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/general-m...d-4th-gen.html

 

My driver's side motor is starting to go. I have to do this obviously. I was thinking last night, since most "replacements" seem to die again anyway, has anyone thought of adapting a universal fit window motor? Why keep buying worthless pieces of **** that will just break anyway down the line to do the same damn process over again, if a good universal window motor could be had and installed?


Thoughts?

 

My advice is the exact opposite of this. I am VERY thankful to have never removed the large rivets for the regulator when a simple motor replacement is all that's needed. If the regulator is fine there is no need to remove it. The inner door structure is still perfectly stable after the small access holes are drilled for motor-only replacement; those access holes are not located at stress points and I've never once seen ill side-effects from creating them.

On the other hand, if you DO remove the factory regulator rivets then the last thing you want to do is reinstall the regulator with nuts and bolts. Folks have done this, and the eventual aftermath is enlarged holes and a shifting regulator (thus a lose window fit). At that point, the inner door structure DOES become compromised at those key stress points where the regulator mounts, and the repair is not a simple fix. This issue won't present right away, but it is trouble ahead. Proper factory rivets should be used if the regulator ever does need removal/replacement.

 

Thanks for the feedback gents.

Clearly there are subtle differences in how we each approach any repair that comes along. I am mostly retired and humbled to have decent shop/garage out back that allows me to stop when I want, shut off the lights and return to tackle it again some other day. I am also not as nimble as I once was... sitting on a concrete floor twisting wrenches etc inside a door... ugh. I realize that is a bit unique and that I likely approach the process differently than most. In that environment replacing the motor unfolded differently for me. Forums like this give everyone an opportunity to see how fellow owners are accomplishing a given repair.

For all my car repairs I will typically explore here or other forums relative to my other vehicles... and also look at the specific part offerings on RockAuto to see what is typical or popular. For me they are valued source of a lot of good info. The AC Delco Pro (now Gold) is a 'favorite' on their site. That specific line has served me uniquely well on several of my cars for many years. The 11M24 I motor I selected is used on a good number of other non F-Body GM vehicles. There is also a full regulator with the motor 11A37. Could i have used other solutions, some listed here and other forums... sure. I chose and will reap the reward or penalty. Ha.

The threads here and other forums show there are different techniques and different parts that accomplish the repair. I went with what I was comfortable with and parts that allowed me to complete the repair before this weekend... when a trip to the Virginia mountains is planned. Some top down time!

As a parting comment, I had already drilled the rivets and had the regulator on my bench, and had plenty of new M7 rivets... still unable to find the correct setting tool. Conveniently anyway.

Gerry-

 

To be sure, regulator removal is certainly not "wrong", it's a perfectly valid option and is actually what the factory intended. It's just that the motor-only swap is a type of short cut that's been discovered by the enthusiast community over the years, and it really is much simpler and quicker once the access holes are in place. But, again, neither method is necessarily right or wrong - it's just a matter of personal preference and also depends on the specific problems that are present (obviously if there is an issue with the regulator, then a motor-only swap is not going to cut it).

With that said, the bigger issue here is relating to the rivets - and this is where it becomes a matter of right/wrong vs. personal preference. You can certainly R&R the regulator without causing problems, but doing so really requires the proper rivets. There are several threads on this site outlining what eventually happens to the inner door structure when bolts/nuts are used for reattaching the regulator. These holes become enlarged and the regulator (thus window) becomes unstable in the door. This is not a simple problem to fix once it happens, lots of custom reinforcement/bracing will need to be done, it's an involved process. So I would just caution anyone who ends up using the regulator removal method to make sure that you use the proper rivets to reattach, because neglecting this is what will lead to problems down the road.

 

As RPM WS6 points out, the issues with straying from the proper regulator replacement procedure are well documented on this site. For this particular item on the regulator, there isn't any wiggle room in the car's engineering to stray from the GM repair procedure in the Factory Service Manual.

I am also a believer in the shbox method of drilling the extra holes to remove the motor without the regulator. Aside from all the documented positives of that, I changed my regulator so many times, I was starting to do damage to the doors around the rivets - so I switched to the shbox method for motor replacement and have avoided any further complications.

Since you have already drilled out your rivets, (as you point out) you are already committed.


It's critically important to use rivets for the repair and use the rivets that GM supplies. They are special steel mandrel/aluminum jacket rivets, which I have been unable to find for sale anywhere else. These rivets properly deform to the composite door material, without doing damage to it. (Bolts will do serious damage. Steel rivets will be too hard and can crack the material, and aluminum rivets will be too soft.)

Once you have the rivets from GM, you can get a riveter for $20 from your local Harbor Freight Store. The rivets are 1/4": https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-t...tle-66422.html

If you want to invest more, you can get nicer versions of this type of riveter from Amazon.com or Grainger.

 

Full disclosure... after writing this the other day, I actually came across similar rivets for sale. However, they were through a B2B wholesaler - so buying the special rivets through GM is still the best deal for us.

 

Thank you for the added commentary wssix99, they are VERY timely. As I had mentioned above my reassembly with screws and locking nuts was done simply because I was unable to find the correct parts at that moment, and we'd planned a mountain trip where... top down is mandatory. Ha.

Meanwhile I ordered a Dorman 743-100 tool off Amazon and it came in as a Chinese knock off that did not include the correct mandrel. (Buyer beware and Dorman is on that case with Amazon at the moment). I have since obtained the Harbor Freight rivet tool you site above (its a Pittsburgh tool). I had already obtained a rivet assortment from Dorman ( p/n 702-013 ) and rivets from the clipsandfastener.com site that are p/n FBAP4007-25 . I had planned to get back to this project this coming weekend but now after your TIMELY comment.... I will now attempt to find the GM rivets you mention.

Do you have more info about them? My local Chevy dealer can be hit and miss on parts.... their REAL parts gent retired.

The vendor I purchased rivets from has a GM P/N of 10157547 on their page: Clips and Fastener link

 

This is the proper rivet! Great to see Clips and Fasteners selling them now. They are a great company and have kept my car looking new (vs. like its held together with duct tape) recently. They do a great job filling in the odds-and-ends that YearOne and Classic Industries don't fill.

It sounds like you are all set!

BTW - As you do this, you might try tightening the rivets just slightly until you have all 4 started and the bolts replaced. Then go back, tighten them all the way, and then "pop" the rivets. Once you get one done, the whole thing starts to get solid and could loose some minor play needed to line up the other three rivets.

 

Thanks for the confirmation. ClipsandFasteners has a great selection, yep!! Getting that regulator lined up solid is absolutely better. I have the screws that came with the motor from AC Delco in there now. I'll likely pull them out one at a time and replace each with a mostly snugged rivet, then go back and pop them off.

I am also considering pulling the regulator back out first, so I can replace the screws and lock nuts that are holding the motor to the regulator... with pop rivets. Seems that should be more proper in how it goes back together.

Thanks again! I'll likely not get to this till later this week or early next.

 

Although it isn't directly related to motor replacement, which I've done successfully via the shbox.com method, I would be very interested in hearing what people are doing, or have done, in terms of repairing a broken roller on the sash channel, the one that travels up & down in the "vertical" rear channel. There doesn't seem to be any OEM parts available for this repair.

 

Dorman sells power left and right regulators for 3rd and 4th gen F-bodies, with and without the lift motor. They carry a selection of Chevy rollers, but I did not see ones specifically listed for the 3rd and 4th gen F-body world. I'd suspect it could be plausible they have one that would work. How are they attached, i.e. bolted or riveted? That might dictate/determine your options? -Gerry

 

To be perfectly honest, I'm not absolutely certain how the factory piece is attached to the sash, but I suspect it is/was riveted.. The piece that broke on my sash was the plastic roller wheel. The arm to which the roller attached, and part of the wheel itself, is still in place, and has some play, or swivels. I'm not sure if the play is by design, or if it's due to wear. I don't have the part number handy, but Dorman used to make a replacement roller wheel, but maybe not the complete assembly. I believe they discontinued the part they were making. I suspect the roller itself is identical to those on the regulator, but the complete assembly could differ.

I stumbled across this video yesterday for the first time. Although the part used doesn't seem to be an optimal solution, the video does illustrate the issue to which I'm referring.

 

It's riveted and pressed in and we haven't seen the exact replacement part on the market yet. The best "proper" repair appears to be buying a used window sash track with the roller still attached and swapping that out on the glass.

There are a number of threads on the site about this. Some have rigged in a temporary replacement with a bolt and washers. Others have had some success welding the original stud back in to the sash channel.

 

So, I stumbled across this thread because I'm about to do my window motors. I got the correct rivets from gmpartsgiant.com, however, after going to Harbor Freight in search of the rivet gun needed, I could not find one that has a large enough opening for the GM rivet. Could you be a bit more specific regarding the tool itself? I'd get it today if I knew exactly which one works.

 

This one will work. (The rivet is a 1/4" rivet.) https://www.harborfreight.com/heavy-...tle-66422.html

If you have Menards' in your area, they also have a tool: https://www.menards.com/main/tools/h...564884&ipos=16

Grainger also sells them locally for 10X the cost, so Amazon is probably your next best option.

 

BTW - Even if you've already purchased the rivets, we recommend NOT drilling out the regulator. Go with the shbox motor replacement instead, drilling new access holes in the door that allow you to access the motor-to-regulator rivets. (Then put your regulator rivets away for a rainy day when you have a regulator problem.)

Drilling out the regulator rivets does progressive and permanent damage to the door panel that upsets the function of the window glass. The shbox method is also much safer because it keeps the regulator spring balanced with the weight of the window glass. (Still watch out for the window dropping after motor removal!) The shbox method is also 4X faster than the factory replacement procedure.