How does this setup sound to you?
The difference between 323s vs 373s are so minimal performance wise it isn't worth the trade offs.
The difference between 323s and 273s is you don't have the 3rd gear 90mph lag. If I had a car with 273s I would get a used M6 342 rear and swap it in.
I have had 273s, 323s, 373s, 410s. From stock to H/C major weight reduction.
The difference between 323s and 273s is you don't have the 3rd gear 90mph lag. If I had a car with 273s I would get a used M6 342 rear and swap it in.
I have had 273s, 323s, 373s, 410s. From stock to H/C major weight reduction.
Launching!
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 277
Likes: 1
From: Shawnee, OK
but we are talking about a car that is gonna get drag raced alot. 3.23s to 3.42s would be completely pointless what is that .21 of a driveshaft rotation i mean come on. i roll raced a ss car with basiclly the same power and set up as me and he had the stock 3.23s and i had my 3.73s and i would pull around him everytime. you can not sit hear and argue on a 26inch radial a 3.23 is gonna perform better than a 3.73 it just will not.
but we are talking about a car that is gonna get drag raced alot. 3.23s to 3.42s would be completely pointless what is that .21 of a driveshaft rotation i mean come on. i roll raced a ss car with basiclly the same power and set up as me and he had the stock 3.23s and i had my 3.73s and i would pull around him everytime. you can not sit hear and argue on a 26inch radial a 3.23 is gonna perform better than a 3.73 it just will not.
I never said anything about 323s-342s.
You can't race a car with basically the same mods and contribute the win to gears, period.
I never once said they would perform better.... I did however say that 373s perform so marginally, if any, better than 323s that the swap is not worth the trade offs.
I have done my research and seen time slip after time slip backing me, have you?
Gear swap believers are gear swap believers... You don't want to hear it because it **FEELS** like it helped the performance of your car a lot. I'm done.
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburgh PA
1. Why is your car at someone else's shop? It should be in your drive way and you should be busy picking up bishes....not posting on ls1tech.
2. Have you ever been to the track? Judging from your previous posts, you will be the type to stage with your rear wheels. Then when the starter backs you up, you will leave the car in reverse.
3. If your dad has to make the decisions about what happens to your car, then you are clearly not responsible enough to drive it, Or he is the one paying for everything....(equaly as bad)
.....just sayin'
2. Have you ever been to the track? Judging from your previous posts, you will be the type to stage with your rear wheels. Then when the starter backs you up, you will leave the car in reverse.
3. If your dad has to make the decisions about what happens to your car, then you are clearly not responsible enough to drive it, Or he is the one paying for everything....(equaly as bad)
.....just sayin'
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
From: Kansas City
Well, Dane... It's at my dads shop so we can take it to our friends shop to have headers put on it and a few other things like a new tranny mount. They are a transmission shop after all and I'm not much for driving 45 min everyday to have one little part put on piece by piece. Get it all done at once instead of taking **** out, putting it back in, repeat. I'm still in high school and I live under my parents roof so yeah, until I'm on my own I have to live by his rules. I don't like it either. And no, I won't leave it in reverse. Don't believe me? Come down to the track and watch me run 12's.
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburgh PA
Just breakin your ***** man. But I still think the car should be at your house, and you should be working on it. Everything you have planned could be done by you. Replacing the trans mount should take around a hour and is a good first project. I would be more than happy to race your 12 second beast. But you failed to inform me on what track. Do you have any of your dads money to put up? Listen to the guys on here, they have legit real world info on what the best converter is for you. Perhaps you could show your dad this thread.
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heh.. welcome to the world of "go fast." Where the more you do the more you "need" to do.
I'm not as skilled as most of the guys here, but look at it this way, your car is nothing more than the sum of parts. A rebuilt 4L60E is what.. $1200 tops? If you go drag racing and you do it enough you WILL break something eventually.
A stall converter is a good budget start to getting good performance out of a car. The converter will NOT burden your tranny, but yes.. can build up heat.
Your dad is probably concerned that he'll have to fit the bill WHEN that 60 fails. At 107k miles, it's not exactly brand new, and with drag racing abuse, if you do any sort of power braking with it.. that's just gonna make it worse.
It is NEVER a question of IF a transmission will fail but WHEN.
So get the stall, get a tranny cooler, and so long as your tranny doesn't spit metal shavings into the fluid and contaminate both of them, you can re-use them on your new 60 when it goes out.
Low 12s isn't so easy without a H/C/I combo. You're doing good on yourself getting an ls6 intake, you're doing well on the headers, the stall is the next logical step if you're not ready for engine internals.
Also.. just personal opinion here.. a quick fix for that 2.73 you probably have would be to surf the classifieds.. find a guy with an m6 ditching his 10 bolt. It wont be any more reliable, but you can pick up a 3.42 for like $100. Upgraded rearend+stall+your current setup, may not get you LOW 12s, but you might be sitting at the "12 second club" table. Remember 12.99 is still "in the 12s"
I'm not as skilled as most of the guys here, but look at it this way, your car is nothing more than the sum of parts. A rebuilt 4L60E is what.. $1200 tops? If you go drag racing and you do it enough you WILL break something eventually.
A stall converter is a good budget start to getting good performance out of a car. The converter will NOT burden your tranny, but yes.. can build up heat.
Your dad is probably concerned that he'll have to fit the bill WHEN that 60 fails. At 107k miles, it's not exactly brand new, and with drag racing abuse, if you do any sort of power braking with it.. that's just gonna make it worse.
It is NEVER a question of IF a transmission will fail but WHEN.
So get the stall, get a tranny cooler, and so long as your tranny doesn't spit metal shavings into the fluid and contaminate both of them, you can re-use them on your new 60 when it goes out.
Low 12s isn't so easy without a H/C/I combo. You're doing good on yourself getting an ls6 intake, you're doing well on the headers, the stall is the next logical step if you're not ready for engine internals.
Also.. just personal opinion here.. a quick fix for that 2.73 you probably have would be to surf the classifieds.. find a guy with an m6 ditching his 10 bolt. It wont be any more reliable, but you can pick up a 3.42 for like $100. Upgraded rearend+stall+your current setup, may not get you LOW 12s, but you might be sitting at the "12 second club" table. Remember 12.99 is still "in the 12s"
I do not recommended blowing money for 373s then.
Chances of you launching in R on your first track visit, very high. It is an extremely common first track visit accident. It isn't a big deal, just laugh it off if you do it. First 2-3 track visits you will have some butter flies and be nervous and not 100% about stuff you are doing.
I would love for you father to explain to me why a converter is going to kill 58367836 transmissions if you put one in.
In normal DA simple bolt ons and a good converter with a set of tires should easily get someone low 12s.
LTs Xpipe dumps (or LTs ORY with a good merge cutout)
4000 converter
ls6 intake
tires
tune
3000+DA or better and you should hit bottom 12s. Regardless if car has 273s or 323s.
OP- Is this a drag car or a DD? Two totally different builds. If it is a drag car, ditch the 4l60e all together and get a built 350 or 400.
Well, Dane... It's at my dads shop so we can take it to our friends shop to have headers put on it and a few other things like a new tranny mount. They are a transmission shop after all and I'm not much for driving 45 min everyday to have one little part put on piece by piece. Get it all done at once instead of taking **** out, putting it back in, repeat. I'm still in high school and I live under my parents roof so yeah, until I'm on my own I have to live by his rules. I don't like it either. And no, I won't leave it in reverse. Don't believe me? Come down to the track and watch me run 12's.
Perhaps you could show your dad this thread.
Low 12s isn't so easy without a H/C/I combo.
LTs Xpipe dumps (or LTs ORY with a good merge cutout)
4000 converter
ls6 intake
tires
tune
3000+DA or better and you should hit bottom 12s. Regardless if car has 273s or 323s.
OP- Is this a drag car or a DD? Two totally different builds. If it is a drag car, ditch the 4l60e all together and get a built 350 or 400.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
From: Kansas City
I will be driving it to and from the track, on the weekends, and maybe during the week. But not everyday. Not yet anyways. We are getting drag radials, I have 3.23's, LS6 intake, lid, cold air filter, larger MAF, bigger TB. With a new tranny mount, and a good tune, I don't see why I can't achieve mid 12's. I think a stall will have to come later because my dads answer is NO.
Well hey, go and have a run with it, have a good time, and dont stress what you run. Stick around here on LS1tech, you'll be all over this car in a few months of reading. Ask questions, use the search.. have fun with it! That's what this is all about right?
Just be careful out there.. insurance is high enough on Fbody cars already.
Just be careful out there.. insurance is high enough on Fbody cars already.
Launching!
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 277
Likes: 1
From: Shawnee, OK
I guess if his car is gonna be so fast he oughta come drag me cause I blew my money on 3.73s. I havent lost to a auto car with 3.23s yet so I guess I blew my money and the half a rotation from 3.23s to 3.73s is apparently worthless in a car setup to drag. im gonna go alert the press now.
I guess if his car is gonna be so fast he oughta come drag me cause I blew my money on 3.73s. I havent lost to a auto car with 3.23s yet so I guess I blew my money and the half a rotation from 3.23s to 3.73s is apparently worthless in a car setup to drag. im gonna go alert the press now.
Car b- stock with a converter
Car a gets drug extremely hard. Gears are such a minimal gain for autos its not worth it. Converter is the mod for autos, period.
There are plenty of 323 cars put there that would drag your 373 car, trust me.
You done any research on this or just babbling?
Realistically, your goal of mid 12's ain't gonna happen with what's boiling down to just headers.
Who is this guy in KC that's doing the PCM rework? Is he a tuner experienced with these cars and engines? If he's not, he's gonna make it worse for you.
Your other mods add virtually nothing. You're not doing the stall converter now and the 3.23 rear will only make you slightly quicker than 2.73's. Do you even have a shift kit in this transmission? Without it, it'll slip as designed and hurt your times.
Did we mention the sloppy stock suspension and engine mounts will also hurt your times as everything is gonna wind up and shift around?
When are you going to the track? I estimate 13.4 to 14 second quarter mile times. You have too many things working against you.
You opened this thread not knowing what the panhard rod is. But you are so confidant you'll do mid 12's?
Your car CAME WITH a LS6 intake manifold so adding one accomplished nothing.The lid and cold air filter adds uummmm NOTHING WORTH MENTIONING. A bigger MAF and TB adds ZERO POWER on an otherwise stock engine. If you install a poly transmission mount while keeping those high mileage stock engine mounts, you run the risk of damaging the transmission tail housing.
You say you don't see why you can't achieve mid 12's? Why does everybody else here see why you won't achieve mid 12's?
Who is this guy in KC that's doing the PCM rework? Is he a tuner experienced with these cars and engines? If he's not, he's gonna make it worse for you.
Your other mods add virtually nothing. You're not doing the stall converter now and the 3.23 rear will only make you slightly quicker than 2.73's. Do you even have a shift kit in this transmission? Without it, it'll slip as designed and hurt your times.
Did we mention the sloppy stock suspension and engine mounts will also hurt your times as everything is gonna wind up and shift around?
When are you going to the track? I estimate 13.4 to 14 second quarter mile times. You have too many things working against you.
You opened this thread not knowing what the panhard rod is. But you are so confidant you'll do mid 12's?
You say you don't see why you can't achieve mid 12's? Why does everybody else here see why you won't achieve mid 12's?
Dont' be too hard on the guy.
I don't know how old you are myfirst01, but if your dad holds the wallet in the decision making I'd guess 16/17. At your age I knew far less about all of this than you do now.
I think it's great you have enthusiasm and a goal in mind. If you don't have a long driving history, a car in the low 12s may not be the best way to start off anyway.. better on you to start with a semi-stock car like you have now, run it at the dragstrip, get your launch/staging and all down and get the "noob" worn off (I've never ran at a strip so I'd be a total joke..) and as you get older, get your own/a better paying job, start taking care of the car yourself, you can do more to it..and you'll grow into it.
I think you're in a good situation right now personally. You may be disappointed that you haven't met that goal.. but doing the work and learning on the way is FAR more valuable than bragging rights.
When I was 13 my dad got a 65 chevelle that was burning oil real bad and running on 4 or 5 cylinders. We spent months working on it in the driveway and eventually wound up pulling it and having the long block rebuilt. The things I learned from that experience are more valuable than anything I would have had from cruising around in a fully restored chevelle that my dad bought or something..
This is what hot rodding is about! It can be frustrating yea.. (believe me) but you're in a market right now with an ls1 car that the question is not "how much power can it make" or "how fast can I go" but "how much power do you WANT to make?" This is a GREAT platform.. it's overwhelmingly so imo.
I don't know how old you are myfirst01, but if your dad holds the wallet in the decision making I'd guess 16/17. At your age I knew far less about all of this than you do now.
I think it's great you have enthusiasm and a goal in mind. If you don't have a long driving history, a car in the low 12s may not be the best way to start off anyway.. better on you to start with a semi-stock car like you have now, run it at the dragstrip, get your launch/staging and all down and get the "noob" worn off (I've never ran at a strip so I'd be a total joke..
) and as you get older, get your own/a better paying job, start taking care of the car yourself, you can do more to it..and you'll grow into it. I think you're in a good situation right now personally. You may be disappointed that you haven't met that goal.. but doing the work and learning on the way is FAR more valuable than bragging rights.
When I was 13 my dad got a 65 chevelle that was burning oil real bad and running on 4 or 5 cylinders. We spent months working on it in the driveway and eventually wound up pulling it and having the long block rebuilt. The things I learned from that experience are more valuable than anything I would have had from cruising around in a fully restored chevelle that my dad bought or something..
This is what hot rodding is about! It can be frustrating yea.. (believe me
) but you're in a market right now with an ls1 car that the question is not "how much power can it make" or "how fast can I go" but "how much power do you WANT to make?" This is a GREAT platform.. it's overwhelmingly so imo. Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
From: Kansas City
OK. I GET IT. All I'm getting is headers and trans mount thanks to my dad. Its his say because the trans shop says we don't need those things. That's how they did it and they have learned from experience. I trust them because they have LT1s and LS1s. I asked for your opinion because I now have info on what to do if/when my dad let's me start upgrading. I also can expect to either run 12's thanks to the tranny shop, or I can say "****, the LS1 tech guys were right. Time to start begging for a stall." and yes the tune guy is known all around KC for being the best around town.
Don't set yourself up for disappointment. Hope to do 13.5, not 12.5 and you won't be crushed. If you do better, then celebrate.
Good, the tuner knows what he's doing.
It's too bad you're stifled by what your dad says but as a parent, he's looking out for your safety and to keep your car from blowing up. DarkFox is right, a 12.5 car is not for an inexperienced new driver. In due time, you'll be able to do your own thing. You'll get there. In the meantime, search and learn, search and learn.
When are you going to the track?
Good, the tuner knows what he's doing.
It's too bad you're stifled by what your dad says but as a parent, he's looking out for your safety and to keep your car from blowing up. DarkFox is right, a 12.5 car is not for an inexperienced new driver. In due time, you'll be able to do your own thing. You'll get there. In the meantime, search and learn, search and learn.
When are you going to the track?