harmonic balancers/dampers
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From: Bucks County, Pa.
harmonic balancers/dampers I know everyone says to just replace it with the stocker again when it is worn out, but, if one DID want to upgrade with an AMERICAN-built unit, which one??
I also know that everyone seems to instantly go for the ATI Super Damper on high-zoot, fully built, screamer race motors which make their power up top, and live at >6600 revs.
But would the Fluidampr be a better choice for a stock internal, street LS1 which will never be spun over 6000, since they claim to work at ALL rev ranges, and better than the ATIs (which even claim to be more effective >6500 right in their copy) at lower/street/highway ranges?
Input, and opinions welcome, but NOT flames.
I also know that everyone seems to instantly go for the ATI Super Damper on high-zoot, fully built, screamer race motors which make their power up top, and live at >6600 revs.
But would the Fluidampr be a better choice for a stock internal, street LS1 which will never be spun over 6000, since they claim to work at ALL rev ranges, and better than the ATIs (which even claim to be more effective >6500 right in their copy) at lower/street/highway ranges?
Input, and opinions welcome, but NOT flames.
they arent better than ATI... but it will be just fine...
theres a reason why NHRA guys use the ATI... because it is the Best.
the Fluidamper is not bad... its just not as good as the ATI
if you arent spinning past 6800, or if you arent making more than 700HP at the crank, then you can use either one...
once you start going past those 2 points... its time to move up to the ATI
theres a reason why NHRA guys use the ATI... because it is the Best.
the Fluidamper is not bad... its just not as good as the ATI
if you arent spinning past 6800, or if you arent making more than 700HP at the crank, then you can use either one...
once you start going past those 2 points... its time to move up to the ATI
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From: Bucks County, Pa.
Thanks for the replies, I know I asked.
But, let me clarify that this car/engine will NEVER, EVER see a drag strip again for as long as I ever own it, and even though it will see autocross use and maybe even open track/HPDE use, it STILL will never be pushed past 6100 TOPS, even at the end of a long straight.
I expected to get the ATI responses and I AGREE with them IF this thing were to live at >6800-7200 revs, or at the 1/4 mile every weekend (and a couple of weekdays).
But it will not, and I had reservations about the fact that the ATIs are tuned/set to be most effective at those revs.
Make NO mistake, if I ever have the coin for Katech to build me that 'dream' road race engine from scratch, out of a C5/6R block, breathing through those beautiful carbon fiber ITBs/intake, with the capability to safely spin up to 9500, it WILL have an ATI on the front.
But, let me clarify that this car/engine will NEVER, EVER see a drag strip again for as long as I ever own it, and even though it will see autocross use and maybe even open track/HPDE use, it STILL will never be pushed past 6100 TOPS, even at the end of a long straight.
I expected to get the ATI responses and I AGREE with them IF this thing were to live at >6800-7200 revs, or at the 1/4 mile every weekend (and a couple of weekdays).
But it will not, and I had reservations about the fact that the ATIs are tuned/set to be most effective at those revs.
Make NO mistake, if I ever have the coin for Katech to build me that 'dream' road race engine from scratch, out of a C5/6R block, breathing through those beautiful carbon fiber ITBs/intake, with the capability to safely spin up to 9500, it WILL have an ATI on the front.
Thanks for the replies, I know I asked.
But, let me clarify that this car/engine will NEVER, EVER see a drag strip again for as long as I ever own it, and even though it will see autocross use and maybe even open track/HPDE use, it STILL will never be pushed past 6100 TOPS, even at the end of a long straight.
I expected to get the ATI responses and I AGREE with them IF this thing were to live at >6800-7200 revs, or at the 1/4 mile every weekend (and a couple of weekdays).
But it will not, and I had reservations about the fact that the ATIs are tuned/set to be most effective at those revs.
Make NO mistake, if I ever have the coin for Katech to build me that 'dream' road race engine from scratch, out of a C5/6R block, breathing through those beautiful carbon fiber ITBs/intake, with the capability to safely spin up to 9500, it WILL have an ATI on the front.
But, let me clarify that this car/engine will NEVER, EVER see a drag strip again for as long as I ever own it, and even though it will see autocross use and maybe even open track/HPDE use, it STILL will never be pushed past 6100 TOPS, even at the end of a long straight.
I expected to get the ATI responses and I AGREE with them IF this thing were to live at >6800-7200 revs, or at the 1/4 mile every weekend (and a couple of weekdays).
But it will not, and I had reservations about the fact that the ATIs are tuned/set to be most effective at those revs.
Make NO mistake, if I ever have the coin for Katech to build me that 'dream' road race engine from scratch, out of a C5/6R block, breathing through those beautiful carbon fiber ITBs/intake, with the capability to safely spin up to 9500, it WILL have an ATI on the front.
it is not just about upper rpm life.....
its about complete engine life and durability
the job of the Damper is to Dampen vibrations and harmonics
even the best balanced internals will still suffer from some vibration caused by the rotating mass...there is no way to 100% balance it perfect
because of this, you can see the effects of it at all rpm's...even at idle.
I've seen engines with the swap of a balancer actually have less problems with getting the engine's Idle Stable and be easier to tune...
so when you consider a balancer, consider that it may be just that....not made to dampen the vibrations but meerly made as a way to counterbalance the engine internals with more mass externally.
wen you buy a product made to be a Damper... its actually a dual function device... both to control the vibrations from mass, and to dampen them by the absorption of kinetic energy
A damper is beneficial at all rpm's and will extend the life of any engine
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From: Bucks County, Pa.
it is not just about upper rpm life.....
its about complete engine life and durability
the job of the Damper is to Dampen vibrations and harmonics
even the best balanced internals will still suffer from some vibration caused by the rotating mass...there is no way to 100% balance it perfect
because of this, you can see the effects of it at all rpm's...even at idle.
I've seen engines with the swap of a balancer actually have less problems with getting the engine's Idle Stable and be easier to tune...
so when you consider a balancer, consider that it may be just that....not made to dampen the vibrations but meerly made as a way to counterbalance the engine internals with more mass externally.
wen you buy a product made to be a Damper... its actually a dual function device... both to control the vibrations from mass, and to dampen them by the absorption of kinetic energy
A damper is beneficial at all rpm's and will extend the life of any engine
its about complete engine life and durability
the job of the Damper is to Dampen vibrations and harmonics
even the best balanced internals will still suffer from some vibration caused by the rotating mass...there is no way to 100% balance it perfect
because of this, you can see the effects of it at all rpm's...even at idle.
I've seen engines with the swap of a balancer actually have less problems with getting the engine's Idle Stable and be easier to tune...
so when you consider a balancer, consider that it may be just that....not made to dampen the vibrations but meerly made as a way to counterbalance the engine internals with more mass externally.
wen you buy a product made to be a Damper... its actually a dual function device... both to control the vibrations from mass, and to dampen them by the absorption of kinetic energy
A damper is beneficial at all rpm's and will extend the life of any engine
BUT, the above is also the reason why I want to go with an aftermarket, damper type of balancer over a stocker, or Power Bond, Professional Products, etc.
I just wanted to know which one would suit my needs/uses, that's all.
I do realize that the ATI dampens/absorbs those crank firing pulses/'harmonics' at all engine speeds, but it IS tuned/set/made to do this most effectively at revs my engine will NEVER see.
Whereas the Fluidampr IS made specifically to control these harmonics at ALL ranges, but maybe not as well as the ATI at those stratospheric revs which your 1/4 mile LSxes, and NASCAR SB.2 small blocks, C5/6 R LSx based engines (and other pure road race engines) see regularly.
Besides, the Fluidampr NEVER has to be rebuilt/'re-elastomered', as the ATI MUST BE at least every 10 years or so.
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I do realize that the ATI dampens/absorbs those crank firing pulses/'harmonics' at all engine speeds, but it IS tuned/set/made to do this most effectively at revs my engine will NEVER see.
Whereas the Fluidampr IS made specifically to control these harmonics at ALL ranges, but maybe not as well as the ATI at those stratospheric revs which your 1/4 mile LSxes, and NASCAR SB.2 small blocks, C5/6 R LSx based engines (and other pure road race engines) see regularly.
the ATI is not tuned specifically for high rpm's.... its made for ALL RPM's
they both control at all rpm's.....
the ATI does a better job at all rpm's than the fluidampr does because of how its made and what it is made of....
the ATI works better because it reacts to both torsional and angular forces.
it may have to be rebuilt after many many years.. but again, you probably arent going to put those stresses on the ATI to wear it out either... its going to be several hundred thousand miles before you wear out an ATI in daily driver conditions.
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12 Second Club
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From: Bucks County, Pa.
you obviously have no idea what you just said there....
the ATI is not tuned specifically for high rpm's.... its made for ALL RPM's
they both control at all rpm's.....
the ATI does a better job at all rpm's than the fluidampr does because of how its made and what it is made of....
the ATI works better because it reacts to both torsional and angular forces.
it may have to be rebuilt after many many years.. but again, you probably arent going to put those stresses on the ATI to wear it out either... its going to be several hundred thousand miles before you wear out an ATI in daily driver conditions.
the ATI is not tuned specifically for high rpm's.... its made for ALL RPM's
they both control at all rpm's.....
the ATI does a better job at all rpm's than the fluidampr does because of how its made and what it is made of....
the ATI works better because it reacts to both torsional and angular forces.
it may have to be rebuilt after many many years.. but again, you probably arent going to put those stresses on the ATI to wear it out either... its going to be several hundred thousand miles before you wear out an ATI in daily driver conditions.
(And I do not have 3-4 other 'beaters' to jump in, like everyone else on here, while I'm waiting for said rebuild turnaround. ) sounds like you had your mind made up before the first question you asked...
just telling you.. the ATI is worth it
i agree. the powerbond and asc pulley are good for what they are but you will never get as good as an ati i love mine and its holding up better than any other under drive pulley i've seen. go with ati for the best quality said and done
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From: Bucks County, Pa.
OK, thanks.
So it's really worth it to return the USA made Fluidampr (I know that the ATI is also COMPLETELY made here as well), pay the return shipping, and pay at least $100.00 more for the Super Damper, for MY uses??!!
Wow, are they that bad??
So it's really worth it to return the USA made Fluidampr (I know that the ATI is also COMPLETELY made here as well), pay the return shipping, and pay at least $100.00 more for the Super Damper, for MY uses??!!
Wow, are they that bad??
Also idk for sure but is the fluidampr under drive? The ati is so there will be some more free power there also
Thread Starter
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From: Bucks County, Pa.
Remember, this car is used EVERY SINGLE DAY, rain, shine, snow, ice, sleet, mud, cold, heat, etc., unlike most on here whose rides are perfect weekend ONLY, garage queens/race cars/etc.
Thread Starter
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From: Bucks County, Pa.
Of course they do NOT state that their dampers function ONLY at these engine speeds, but they DO claim that they are most effective there.
It talks about "tuning" the elastomers/inertia ring weights in their dampers to specific, given, frequencies and engine speeds RIGHT ON THEIR WEBSITE!!. (Go look for yourself.)
So YES, I DO "have an idea what I just said there", IF I am to believe/have ANY confidence in their site at all.
Do ANY of you on here have ANY clue what a Fluidampr actually is, or does, since you seem to think that they are soooo vastly inferior?? (Or do you just take on faith, as absolute GOSPEL, whatever your engine builders/tuners claim?)
IMO, Stick with the Fluidampr it's a better damper then the ATI below 5k. The ATI is better above 5500rpm, but there both still great dampers.
BTW, I've been running a Fluidampr 10%UD #720102 for years and never had any issues with it, and the engine has ran smoother(less vibration) after I installed it.
BTW, I've been running a Fluidampr 10%UD #720102 for years and never had any issues with it, and the engine has ran smoother(less vibration) after I installed it.
I have talked to two separate engine builders,not the guys that talk on the phone/shop owners/etc the guys that actually have the know how with the engines (sponsors) that both HIGHLY pushed for ATI... They said if I couldn't swing ATI go with a powerbond/SLP until I have the money for the ATI.
One even commented on the fluidamper saying it was mostly advertising and they would never recommend it.
Take it FWIW..
One even commented on the fluidamper saying it was mostly advertising and they would never recommend it.
Take it FWIW..
to the op, I have had he 10% ati for a couple years and even when my car had the auto I still never had issues with charging or anything, so I would go for it. again no offense to the op but he sounded like he already had his mind made up before he got in here. Also it has been dyno tested many times that an ati 10% underdrive will outperform most 25% pulleys because of the way it dampens.
the fluidampr will be fine for doing whatever day to day driving and street spirited driving he wants. however it seemed like he was asking if ati was better and it is. theres a reason why nascar guys and racers say its the best.
the fluidampr will be fine for doing whatever day to day driving and street spirited driving he wants. however it seemed like he was asking if ati was better and it is. theres a reason why nascar guys and racers say its the best.
