have to use a x or h pipe?
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From: Tax free DE
have to use a x or h pipe? I know on a lot of the older muscle cars they use to just run true duals with 2 separate exhaust pipes running from each cylinder head and never connecting at any point, now though it seems like everybody's exhaust (non y pipe at least) is using a x or y pipe? What is the point of it and is it really needed? Im looking to re-do my exhaust on my 98 Camaro because of some issues im currently having with my set-up and room with my 9" and torque arm. Was looking into running true dual without a x or y pipe but no one seems to do it that way and was curious as to why?
It helps balance the exhaust flow from bank to bank thereby reducing exhaust restrictions.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...se-x-pipe.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...se-x-pipe.html
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From: Tax free DE
has there ever been a dyno proven advantage to them or any back to back tests? I understand the theory but just not quite sure im buying that it is significant enough to justify the use and hassle/routing of welding one of them in?
I can't remember where I read this, but a guy in Europe did test this theory, and discovered that a smaller diameter system could be run with an X-pipe versus the other two systems because of the increased scavenging afforded by the X config. If you are street driving, and it is problematic I don't know if I would be so greedy or concerned in gaining the extra 5 or so lb/ft, but if you want to maximize every aspect of the system then an X-pipe (or even the H) is worth looking into.
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From: Tax free DE
okay yeah that's kind of what I was getting at. 3-5 hp makes it hard for me to justify the cost of the x pipe and then mandrel bends for the exhaust and then having to deal with routing the pipes around the transmission and driveshaft/safety loop and torque arm. All that work for a few ponies just is not worth it to me.
My plans then are to run straight pipes ( or slightly bent since headers do angle out somewhat) coming off each header collector and run like a bullet style muffler and dump it in front of the rear axle with turn downs. Anybody on here running something like that without a x/y/h pipe? id imagine it will sound good, just concerned with getting to much noise and vibration inside the car, open headers did that obviously but im thinking with it having mufflers and turn downs back near the rear axle that a lot of that will be reduced. any thoughts?
My plans then are to run straight pipes ( or slightly bent since headers do angle out somewhat) coming off each header collector and run like a bullet style muffler and dump it in front of the rear axle with turn downs. Anybody on here running something like that without a x/y/h pipe? id imagine it will sound good, just concerned with getting to much noise and vibration inside the car, open headers did that obviously but im thinking with it having mufflers and turn downs back near the rear axle that a lot of that will be reduced. any thoughts?
okay yeah that's kind of what I was getting at. 3-5 hp makes it hard for me to justify the cost of the x pipe and then mandrel bends for the exhaust and then having to deal with routing the pipes around the transmission and driveshaft/safety loop and torque arm. All that work for a few ponies just is not worth it to me.
My plans then are to run straight pipes ( or slightly bent since headers do angle out somewhat) coming off each header collector and run like a bullet style muffler and dump it in front of the rear axle with turn downs. Anybody on here running something like that without a x/y/h pipe? id imagine it will sound good, just concerned with getting to much noise and vibration inside the car, open headers did that obviously but im thinking with it having mufflers and turn downs back near the rear axle that a lot of that will be reduced. any thoughts?
My plans then are to run straight pipes ( or slightly bent since headers do angle out somewhat) coming off each header collector and run like a bullet style muffler and dump it in front of the rear axle with turn downs. Anybody on here running something like that without a x/y/h pipe? id imagine it will sound good, just concerned with getting to much noise and vibration inside the car, open headers did that obviously but im thinking with it having mufflers and turn downs back near the rear axle that a lot of that will be reduced. any thoughts?
Can't justify the cost.....geezus
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From: Tax free DE
Hi and nice to meet you as well 
Muscle cars for years before the 80's always used true dual set-ups with no x or H and never sounded like **** imo. doesn't the corvette even use no y,x,or h pipe in their factory and some aftermarket exhaust systems they sell for those as well? do they also sound like ****? Not trying to start an argument and thanks for your response but the 200-300 hundred extra dollars for the cost of making a x pipe set-up vs what im thinking of doing for a roughly 5 hp gain.... yeah I think that's a little hard to justify.
Muscle cars for years before the 80's always used true dual set-ups with no x or H and never sounded like **** imo. doesn't the corvette even use no y,x,or h pipe in their factory and some aftermarket exhaust systems they sell for those as well? do they also sound like ****? Not trying to start an argument and thanks for your response but the 200-300 hundred extra dollars for the cost of making a x pipe set-up vs what im thinking of doing for a roughly 5 hp gain.... yeah I think that's a little hard to justify. Trending Topics
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Hi and nice to meet you as well Muscle cars for years before the 80's always used true dual set-ups with no x or H and never sounded like **** imo. doesn't the corvette even use no y,x,or h pipe in their factory and some aftermarket exhaust systems they sell for those as well? do they also sound like ****? Not trying to start an argument and thanks for your response but the 200-300 hundred extra dollars for the cost of making a x pipe set-up vs what im thinking of doing for a roughly 5 hp gain.... yeah I think that's a little hard to justify.
Muscle cars for years before the 80's always used true dual set-ups with no x or H and never sounded like **** imo. doesn't the corvette even use no y,x,or h pipe in their factory and some aftermarket exhaust systems they sell for those as well? do they also sound like ****? Not trying to start an argument and thanks for your response but the 200-300 hundred extra dollars for the cost of making a x pipe set-up vs what im thinking of doing for a roughly 5 hp gain.... yeah I think that's a little hard to justify.And yes, it will sound bad as the LS1 has a different firing sequence than others mentioned. Do yourself a favor and run an X pipe. It's not just topend that benefits. The midrange picks up substantially.
If you're "that" worried about spending the "extra" 2-300 for an x-setup, then "just" spend 300 on either a used TSP true dual setup, or an eBay set.
whigham covered/reinforced what has been known forever and not worth reiterating, so to my original post....no sense in reinventing the wheel, pony up and do it right. In the long run, you'll be glad you did.
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From: Tax free DE
The texas speed td's wont clear around body mounted tq arms or I wouldnt even be posting this thread in the first place. Plus im not sure how well the tsp td set up will mate up to my slp headers. Their y pipe was 6 inches short and slightly off centered so I had to go buy stainless piping and keep bending it to make it fit right and line up with everything else.
If i end up doing a custom td set up and used a h pipe, is there a "best place" as far as length it should be placed behind the header collectors?
If i end up doing a custom td set up and used a h pipe, is there a "best place" as far as length it should be placed behind the header collectors?
The texas speed td's wont clear around body mounted tq arms or I wouldnt even be posting this thread in the first place. Plus im not sure how well the tsp td set up will mate up to my slp headers. Their y pipe was 6 inches short and slightly off centered so I had to go buy stainless piping and keep bending it to make it fit right and line up with everything else.
If i end up doing a custom td set up and used a h pipe, is there a "best place" as far as length it should be placed behind the header collectors?
If i end up doing a custom td set up and used a h pipe, is there a "best place" as far as length it should be placed behind the header collectors?
As far as the "X-pipe" (hint, hint) location...you're always going to end up just behind the trans mount/crossmember area on a 4th gen though in theory, it should be located as close to the header collector as possible.
Here's a pic of my Kooks TD set up for reference....
the X and the H both make identical power when tuned properly....
it all comes down to sound...
the H in general sounds a little deeper and tends to have less drone note problems
the X sounds a little more aggressive, but can get raspy if you dont have a decent muffler on it
I personally Prefer an H pipe, but there isnt always room for an H pipe...so sometimes you go with what you have room for
it seems to be easier on an Fbody car to use an x pipe....
My mustang project..I went with an H-pipe because I had plenty of room for it
it all comes down to sound...
the H in general sounds a little deeper and tends to have less drone note problems
the X sounds a little more aggressive, but can get raspy if you dont have a decent muffler on it
I personally Prefer an H pipe, but there isnt always room for an H pipe...so sometimes you go with what you have room for
it seems to be easier on an Fbody car to use an x pipe....
My mustang project..I went with an H-pipe because I had plenty of room for it
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From: Odessa, TX
IMO, if you're hung up on a dual that dumps before the axle, have one made. Materials are minimal and you can have it fitted to your existing headers as opposed to "making it fit".
As far as the "X-pipe" (hint, hint) location...you're always going to end up just behind the trans mount/crossmember area on a 4th gen though in theory, it should be located as close to the header collector as possible.
Here's a pic of my Kooks TD set up for reference....
One thing I hate about kooks duals is they don't fit in the tunnel. My duals granted they were 2.5 tuck up within 1.5-2" of my driveshaft. I am lowered on stranos.
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From: Auckland, Nth Is, New Zealand.
Hi and nice to meet you as well Muscle cars for years before the 80's always used true dual set-ups with no x or H and never sounded like **** imo. doesn't the corvette even use no y,x,or h pipe in their factory and some aftermarket exhaust systems they sell for those as well? do they also sound like ****? Not trying to start an argument and thanks for your response but the 200-300 hundred extra dollars for the cost of making a x pipe set-up vs what im thinking of doing for a roughly 5 hp gain.... yeah I think that's a little hard to justify.
Muscle cars for years before the 80's always used true dual set-ups with no x or H and never sounded like **** imo. doesn't the corvette even use no y,x,or h pipe in their factory and some aftermarket exhaust systems they sell for those as well? do they also sound like ****? Not trying to start an argument and thanks for your response but the 200-300 hundred extra dollars for the cost of making a x pipe set-up vs what im thinking of doing for a roughly 5 hp gain.... yeah I think that's a little hard to justify.
I run 3" duals with no crossover. I don't think it sounds like *** at all. In fact a friend just had 3" x pipe duals on his car with Flowmaster 10s and the only noticeable difference in sound quality or volume was likely 99% due to muffler choice. Mine uses Flowtech Terminator mufflers with the dumps turned 45* out towards the sides of the car.
My camera doesn't pick up exhaust audio that great. The car really sounds more hollow in person but not as tinny as a flowmaster, the camera seems to mostly pick up the super deep parts and the high parts of the exhaust without catching all the tones in between.
My camera doesn't pick up exhaust audio that great. The car really sounds more hollow in person but not as tinny as a flowmaster, the camera seems to mostly pick up the super deep parts and the high parts of the exhaust without catching all the tones in between.
Perhaps, and I had at one point contemplated adding an X but quite frankly between the cost of re-doing the exhaust and the added pain in the *** of clearance issues with various things under the car, it did not seem worthwhile to me.
It might add some low-midrange "umph" but I have yet to see any conclusive evidence it makes a car faster at the track than the same setup minus the crossover.
My point of responding to this thread was that lack of a crossover does not automatically mean it will sound like ****. I guarantee it would take a pretty keen ear to hear that I don't have one. I would be straight shocked if anyone could listen without knowing and tell me that the car didn't.
It might add some low-midrange "umph" but I have yet to see any conclusive evidence it makes a car faster at the track than the same setup minus the crossover.
My point of responding to this thread was that lack of a crossover does not automatically mean it will sound like ****. I guarantee it would take a pretty keen ear to hear that I don't have one. I would be straight shocked if anyone could listen without knowing and tell me that the car didn't.
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From: Auckland, Nth Is, New Zealand.
OP was more referring to old muscle cars & them not having crossovers in their day so why is it necessary with todays.
Back then our iron engines ran 'big' 2" duals, as time went on guys started using 'huge' 2 1/2" lol.
At higher rpms it got raspy without crossover pipe.
Back then our iron engines ran 'big' 2" duals, as time went on guys started using 'huge' 2 1/2" lol.
At higher rpms it got raspy without crossover pipe.