New Hooker 4th-gen F-body Headers and Exhaust
#182
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Guys, I just want to reiterate these dyno numbers. The average across 6 pulls were peak numbers of 333.79 horsepower and 348.51 lb/ft of torque. This was on my friend's 114,000 mile 2001 Formula. The only other modification was an open K&N filter. For a car that made probably 300-310 rwhp stock, I was very impressed with the results. For lightly modded cars such as this one, I think you'd be extremely hard-pressed to achieve better results with longtubes and a 3" exhaust. And even if it did make 2 more horsepower (which I really doubt), would it be worth sacrificing the ground clearance and having to buy a panhard relocation bar?
My car stock, 60k miles, with lid and Hooker Aerochamber catback=300rwhp and 315rwtq.
A year later at about 70k miles, I added 1 3/4 Hooker LTs and 3" ORY (has a horrible merge)+heavier drivetrain setup (LS7 clutch and 9")=334rwhp and 360rwtq on the same Mustang dyno.
Considering my car made that power through a Mustang dyno vs Dynojet, and I'm assuming both cars are M6, I'd estimate the LT+ORY setup is probably good for 10rwhp/tq over the dual Hooker setup. Maybe with 1 7/8 headers it would be 15rwhp/tq? I think my entire exhaust setup was $700, but it is NOT stainless. Also I did not need a panhard relocation.
As for ground clearance, the only place I ever scrape is the pipe right under the driver seat, which is almost up against the body of the car. I don't see how this midlength setup+2.5 exhaust would make any difference, unless that same pipe was pressed to an oval shape similar to stock (and I think Kooks does this).
Last edited by _JB_; 07-15-2015 at 09:50 PM.
#183
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As for ground clearance, the only place I ever scrape is the pipe right under the driver seat, which is almost up against the body of the car. I don't see how this midlength setup+2.5 exhaust would make any difference, unless that same pipe was pressed to an oval shape similar to stock (and I think Kooks does this).
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#186
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That suggestion is one I like, but one that typically doesn't work out in practice since you have no control over when other manufacturers execute design revisions or obsolete a part number and also do not have access to their master samples to design products to. Using production parts for such development work is not desirable due to the production tolerances present.
Last edited by Toddoky; 07-20-2015 at 12:24 PM.
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That suggestion is one I like, but one that typically doesn't work out in practice since you have no control over when other manufacturers execute design revisions or obsolete a part number and also do not have access to their master samples to design products to. Using production parts for such development work is not desirable due to the production tolerances present.
#190
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I love the sound of my Hooker catback, which makes me very interested in the Hooker duals....that said..
My worry is that while right now I'm just bolt-ons, in the somewhat near future I'll be going H/C and like everybody else I'm worried what power will be left on the table.
Also, those tips are hideous. You couldn't just use the same tips from the catback? These tips look like they were put together by a third rate muffler shop.
My worry is that while right now I'm just bolt-ons, in the somewhat near future I'll be going H/C and like everybody else I'm worried what power will be left on the table.
Also, those tips are hideous. You couldn't just use the same tips from the catback? These tips look like they were put together by a third rate muffler shop.
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Thats a great exhaust you guys have there, if I didn't have my bassani true duals already I would definitely look into this exhaust. What I really like about this exhaust over the bassani is that the muffler setup is cleaner with less bends.
#192
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Yes, Hooker does make 4th-gen F-body long-tubes, but they do not provide the level of fitment/ground clearance that is satisfactory to us to be labeled a Blackheart product. This is the reason you won't see connection pipes offered by us for the current Hooker 4th-gen headers.
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Yes, Hooker does make 4th-gen F-body long-tubes, but they do not provide the level of fitment/ground clearance that is satisfactory to us to be labeled a Blackheart product. This is the reason you won't see connection pipes offered by us for the current Hooker 4th-gen headers.
#194
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I love the sound of my Hooker catback, which makes me very interested in the Hooker duals....that said..
My worry is that while right now I'm just bolt-ons, in the somewhat near future I'll be going H/C and like everybody else I'm worried what power will be left on the table.
Also, those tips are hideous. You couldn't just use the same tips from the catback? These tips look like they were put together by a third rate muffler shop.
My worry is that while right now I'm just bolt-ons, in the somewhat near future I'll be going H/C and like everybody else I'm worried what power will be left on the table.
Also, those tips are hideous. You couldn't just use the same tips from the catback? These tips look like they were put together by a third rate muffler shop.
The existing Hooker cat-back uses a single transverse muffler and is not subject to the same fitment constraints as when packaging two mufflers pointed straight out the back in these cars.
If you do some searching on this forum you will see all kinds of work-arounds guys have attempted in the past to try and address this issue, including notching out the spare tire well and mounting mufflers on their sides.
There are varying tastes when it comes to tips and we've been discussing design options for alternative tips for this system that we can develop and release in the future.
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
#195
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I can say this with a high level of certainty due to the fact that test fitting and evaluating the current long-tubes for suitability in the regard was the first thing I did when the project began last year. They fit reasonably well for when and how they were designed, but they don't represent what Hooker is trying to provide to the market through the Blackheart line.
Last edited by Toddoky; 07-21-2015 at 12:44 PM.
#196
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Just seeing these for the first time after a friend showed them to me. Got really excited at the price then saw they werent for long tubes. No go.
Im also disapointed I couldn't run different tips due to the offset design. After having 4" quad tips on my bird I couldn't downsize that much. They just fill out the cutouts so well. That's not as big of a deal as no long tube option though.
Im also disapointed I couldn't run different tips due to the offset design. After having 4" quad tips on my bird I couldn't downsize that much. They just fill out the cutouts so well. That's not as big of a deal as no long tube option though.
#198
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Just seeing these for the first time after a friend showed them to me. Got really excited at the price then saw they werent for long tubes. No go.
Im also disapointed I couldn't run different tips due to the offset design. After having 4" quad tips on my bird I couldn't downsize that much. They just fill out the cutouts so well. That's not as big of a deal as no long tube option though.
Im also disapointed I couldn't run different tips due to the offset design. After having 4" quad tips on my bird I couldn't downsize that much. They just fill out the cutouts so well. That's not as big of a deal as no long tube option though.
As far as long-tubes are concerned, others like myself are used to having to create exactly what it is you want with many aftermarket parts and have no issue with breaking out the fabricating tools and making it happen.
Last edited by Toddoky; 07-21-2015 at 12:40 PM.
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So I just found this thread yesterday, and while I haven't read through much more than about half, the endless circles about long tubes is kinda moot.
This is literally the perfect system for anybody with limited income (i.e. the younger guys that are buying these cars now) as well as the people who realistically understand that most of these cars are street driven. If you're worried about how the system sounds compared to your y-pipe setup AND worried about losing 10-20 hp, you're not being realistic. Do you want maximum power, do you want the best sound or do you want it to be more affordable than the other options?
Everybody complains about the fitment and price of the kooks setup and when presented with a legitimate alternative that completely offsets those negatives, they complain it's not as good. You can't have everything. You're gonna make a sacrifice somewhere. That being said, there's no reason a good quality exhaust shop can't modify the system to match any other brand of long tube for relatively cheap, which means the total price is still around the same as just the kooks headers.
Now, after saying all that, I highly doubt you guys have done anything but BROADEN your market on this. My car is driven on the street. I want an exhaust that sounds better than the majority of the other options available, and I would like to be able to afford it this decade. I think those desires are really what drives the majority of people who are looking for an exhaust.
This looks like an extremely well built product with tons of thought put into the design, which is what we need when it comes to spending money on our cars, right? I won't be ready to purchase for awhile, but I can guarantee that this has officially taken the place over a kooks system for me.
** A couple things I forgot to mention: One thing I do very strongly agree with is presenting some kind of set up that would provide adapters to long tubes. I understand that there are complicated logistics to doing that and in reality, isn't necessarily on you, but I believe it should be considered; at least to provide for the major LT brands, kooks, ARH etc...
Another thing that does bother me is the tips, and I'm aware it seems to bother other users as well. I agree with the statement that considering this is the part that you actually SEE, something should be done about the appearance. I'm not saying that the tips look bad, but as you know the general preference is at the very least the twin wall designs. I'm aware that it would dramatically increase the price, but there should at least be something of an option at time of purchase. Or maybe even a tipless design with an adapter that allows us to mount any other tip we would want.
This is literally the perfect system for anybody with limited income (i.e. the younger guys that are buying these cars now) as well as the people who realistically understand that most of these cars are street driven. If you're worried about how the system sounds compared to your y-pipe setup AND worried about losing 10-20 hp, you're not being realistic. Do you want maximum power, do you want the best sound or do you want it to be more affordable than the other options?
Everybody complains about the fitment and price of the kooks setup and when presented with a legitimate alternative that completely offsets those negatives, they complain it's not as good. You can't have everything. You're gonna make a sacrifice somewhere. That being said, there's no reason a good quality exhaust shop can't modify the system to match any other brand of long tube for relatively cheap, which means the total price is still around the same as just the kooks headers.
Now, after saying all that, I highly doubt you guys have done anything but BROADEN your market on this. My car is driven on the street. I want an exhaust that sounds better than the majority of the other options available, and I would like to be able to afford it this decade. I think those desires are really what drives the majority of people who are looking for an exhaust.
This looks like an extremely well built product with tons of thought put into the design, which is what we need when it comes to spending money on our cars, right? I won't be ready to purchase for awhile, but I can guarantee that this has officially taken the place over a kooks system for me.
** A couple things I forgot to mention: One thing I do very strongly agree with is presenting some kind of set up that would provide adapters to long tubes. I understand that there are complicated logistics to doing that and in reality, isn't necessarily on you, but I believe it should be considered; at least to provide for the major LT brands, kooks, ARH etc...
Another thing that does bother me is the tips, and I'm aware it seems to bother other users as well. I agree with the statement that considering this is the part that you actually SEE, something should be done about the appearance. I'm not saying that the tips look bad, but as you know the general preference is at the very least the twin wall designs. I'm aware that it would dramatically increase the price, but there should at least be something of an option at time of purchase. Or maybe even a tipless design with an adapter that allows us to mount any other tip we would want.
Last edited by thetmeister05; 07-21-2015 at 07:03 PM.
#200
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So I just found this thread yesterday, and while I haven't read through much more than about half, the endless circles about long tubes is kinda moot.
This is literally the perfect system for anybody with limited income (i.e. the younger guys that are buying these cars now) as well as the people who realistically understand that most of these cars are street driven. If you're worried about how the system sounds compared to your y-pipe setup AND worried about losing 10-20 hp, you're not being realistic. Do you want maximum power, do you want the best sound or do you want it to be more affordable than the other options?
Everybody complains about the fitment and price of the kooks setup and when presented with a legitimate alternative that completely offsets those negatives, they complain it's not as good. You can't have everything. You're gonna make a sacrifice somewhere. That being said, there's no reason a good quality exhaust shop can't modify the system to match any other brand of long tube for relatively cheap, which means the total price is still around the same as just the kooks headers.
Now, after saying all that, I highly doubt you guys have done anything but BROADEN your market on this. My car is driven on the street. I want an exhaust that sounds better than the majority of the other options available, and I would like to be able to afford it this decade. I think those desires are really what drives the majority of people who are looking for an exhaust.
This looks like an extremely well built product with tons of thought put into the design, which is what we need when it comes to spending money on our cars, right? I won't be ready to purchase for awhile, but I can guarantee that this has officially taken the place over a kooks system for me.
** A couple things I forgot to mention: One thing I do very strongly agree with is presenting some kind of set up that would provide adapters to long tubes. I understand that there are complicated logistics to doing that and in reality, isn't necessarily on you, but I believe it should be considered; at least to provide for the major LT brands, kooks, ARH etc...
Another thing that does bother me is the tips, and I'm aware it seems to bother other users as well. I agree with the statement that considering this is the part that you actually SEE, something should be done about the appearance. I'm not saying that the tips look bad, but as you know the general preference is at the very least the twin wall designs. I'm aware that it would dramatically increase the price, but there should at least be something of an option at time of purchase. Or maybe even a tipless design with an adapter that allows us to mount any other tip we would want.
This is literally the perfect system for anybody with limited income (i.e. the younger guys that are buying these cars now) as well as the people who realistically understand that most of these cars are street driven. If you're worried about how the system sounds compared to your y-pipe setup AND worried about losing 10-20 hp, you're not being realistic. Do you want maximum power, do you want the best sound or do you want it to be more affordable than the other options?
Everybody complains about the fitment and price of the kooks setup and when presented with a legitimate alternative that completely offsets those negatives, they complain it's not as good. You can't have everything. You're gonna make a sacrifice somewhere. That being said, there's no reason a good quality exhaust shop can't modify the system to match any other brand of long tube for relatively cheap, which means the total price is still around the same as just the kooks headers.
Now, after saying all that, I highly doubt you guys have done anything but BROADEN your market on this. My car is driven on the street. I want an exhaust that sounds better than the majority of the other options available, and I would like to be able to afford it this decade. I think those desires are really what drives the majority of people who are looking for an exhaust.
This looks like an extremely well built product with tons of thought put into the design, which is what we need when it comes to spending money on our cars, right? I won't be ready to purchase for awhile, but I can guarantee that this has officially taken the place over a kooks system for me.
** A couple things I forgot to mention: One thing I do very strongly agree with is presenting some kind of set up that would provide adapters to long tubes. I understand that there are complicated logistics to doing that and in reality, isn't necessarily on you, but I believe it should be considered; at least to provide for the major LT brands, kooks, ARH etc...
Another thing that does bother me is the tips, and I'm aware it seems to bother other users as well. I agree with the statement that considering this is the part that you actually SEE, something should be done about the appearance. I'm not saying that the tips look bad, but as you know the general preference is at the very least the twin wall designs. I'm aware that it would dramatically increase the price, but there should at least be something of an option at time of purchase. Or maybe even a tipless design with an adapter that allows us to mount any other tip we would want.