Porting TBSS Intake (My Approach)
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,148
Likes: 53
From: Saskatchewan, Canada - where arguing "DA" is for the slow and weak...
Porting TBSS Intake (My Approach) Started porting the TBSS manifold which looked like it had been kicked down a flight of stairs.
The way they used to do it was to cut the lid off and epoxy it back on. That is just a ham-fisted short sighted method. Me? I decided to take a 3" hole saw and pop the plug out of the back to gain access to the rear runners.
Then I came in through the front with a deeper 3" hole saw and started chopping out the NVH tube in the rear (I aimed high to avoid damaging the floor and to cut into the pedestal). To aid in this I decided to run a 1.25" hole saw down through the top to removed the pedestal/plug - it helped I think?
I have to decide if I am going to lose the MAP port on the top of the manifold.
The long term plan is to epoxy in a 3" and 1.25" ABS/copper/aluminum/steel plug in the top and back.
The way they used to do it was to cut the lid off and epoxy it back on. That is just a ham-fisted short sighted method. Me? I decided to take a 3" hole saw and pop the plug out of the back to gain access to the rear runners.
Then I came in through the front with a deeper 3" hole saw and started chopping out the NVH tube in the rear (I aimed high to avoid damaging the floor and to cut into the pedestal). To aid in this I decided to run a 1.25" hole saw down through the top to removed the pedestal/plug - it helped I think?
I have to decide if I am going to lose the MAP port on the top of the manifold.
The long term plan is to epoxy in a 3" and 1.25" ABS/copper/aluminum/steel plug in the top and back.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,148
Likes: 53
From: Saskatchewan, Canada - where arguing "DA" is for the slow and weak...
Almost done... just need to plug the holes.
The throttle body flange/inlet was opened to 92mm to match the Warr TB.
One of my biggest concerns is with over porting the manifold (ie. shortening the runners may cause a reduction in low-end torque) so I approached it with caution. Effectively I only removed the NVH tube and smoothed the rail at the runner openings to be as close to even as possible.
One thing I did leave in was a piece of the ramp at the halfway point, this might help kick the air up off the floor toward the rear runners (or it might not do a damn thing).
The runner outlets were squared up to 1.05" wide and the gaskets opened to 1.07" (removed the silly ramps) to closer match the TSP heads (1.075") and allow for an easy transition and misalignment issues once bolted down (things are never perfect).
Another reason I am not too vexed about going full out on this port job is pretty obvious: zippy juice.
The throttle body flange/inlet was opened to 92mm to match the Warr TB.
One of my biggest concerns is with over porting the manifold (ie. shortening the runners may cause a reduction in low-end torque) so I approached it with caution. Effectively I only removed the NVH tube and smoothed the rail at the runner openings to be as close to even as possible.
One thing I did leave in was a piece of the ramp at the halfway point, this might help kick the air up off the floor toward the rear runners (or it might not do a damn thing).
The runner outlets were squared up to 1.05" wide and the gaskets opened to 1.07" (removed the silly ramps) to closer match the TSP heads (1.075") and allow for an easy transition and misalignment issues once bolted down (things are never perfect).
Another reason I am not too vexed about going full out on this port job is pretty obvious: zippy juice.
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 38
Likes: 1
From: Paris, KY
What did you use (or intend to use) to glue this back together? I've read that the Nylon-6 material that the intake is made of doesn't take most glues or epoxies well. With a bit of Googling, it seems like glues with methyl methacrylate will work. Loctite Epoxy Plastic Bonder is one that looked easy to get, so I bought some and may try it this weekend on a repair job.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,148
Likes: 53
From: Saskatchewan, Canada - where arguing "DA" is for the slow and weak...
What did you use (or intend to use) to glue this back together? I've read that the Nylon-6 material that the intake is made of doesn't take most glues or epoxies well. With a bit of Googling, it seems like glues with methyl methacrylate will work. Loctite Epoxy Plastic Bonder is one that looked easy to get, so I bought some and may try it this weekend on a repair job.
Truthfully I was just looking at creating a mechanical adhesion (ie. drilling holes/channels) to have the epoxy (JB Weld) flow in to. I did this when I ported through the neck of my LS6 intake at a known thin spot to build it back up (that intake is now going on a boosted engine - we'll see if it holds). Being that this is an "N/A" application I am not too worried about it exploding.
I picked up a couple of 1.875" ID ABS caps tonight that will sit over the holes drilled in the top of the intake. So it isn't like they are going to get sucked in.
Ironically I was able to press the plug from the rear of the intake back in (it was a tolerance fit), so it is unlikely that it is going to budge under normal vacuum - anything used to hold it in place will likely work fine. I am certain the 80 grit finish will provide enough tooth to bond against. That said, just melting it all closed with a soldering iron would probably suffice as well - I mean it was friction welded from the factory, right?
Here's my take, and correct me if I'm wrong...but if you are going to cut 2 massive holes and epoxy a plug, how is that functionally different than cutting the top off and epoxying it back together?
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,148
Likes: 53
From: Saskatchewan, Canada - where arguing "DA" is for the slow and weak...
Just offering up my postulations on how to get in there with the least amount of disruption working in my garage with the tools I have on hand.
The holes in the top are smaller than 1.5" each and put there by the factory, and capped after assembly. And the 3" hole in the back? Same deal. All I did was open them back up. There is very little compromise of the structural integrity of the part doing it this way vs. say... cutting it completely in half.
If I could get replacement caps for the top and back from GM I would just slap those on and call it a day - but they don't seem to have part numbers on them... so here we are.
But if you think that this: https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...ss-intake.html is a better solution than what I am proposing? Fill your boots.
Trending Topics
I actually had the same question on what's the difference between holesaw vs cutting it open. Not talking smacl, just curious. The thread you listed doesn't show a resealed one, though the cut one does look a little scary. Certainly gives you room to do more though.
Peak speed gets a pretty penny for porting, especially for "radical porting". About 500 bucks plus the cost of a manifold, why not just buy the truck version of the FAST if you've got the room? Just thinking out loud cuz I have a motor waiting to go in my truck.
Peak speed gets a pretty penny for porting, especially for "radical porting". About 500 bucks plus the cost of a manifold, why not just buy the truck version of the FAST if you've got the room? Just thinking out loud cuz I have a motor waiting to go in my truck.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,148
Likes: 53
From: Saskatchewan, Canada - where arguing "DA" is for the slow and weak...
I actually had the same question on what's the difference between holesaw vs cutting it open. Not talking smacl, just curious. The thread you listed doesn't show a resealed one, though the cut one does look a little scary. Certainly gives you room to do more though.
Peak speed gets a pretty penny for porting, especially for "radical porting". About 500 bucks plus the cost of a manifold, why not just buy the truck version of the FAST if you've got the room? Just thinking out loud cuz I have a motor waiting to go in my truck.
Peak speed gets a pretty penny for porting, especially for "radical porting". About 500 bucks plus the cost of a manifold, why not just buy the truck version of the FAST if you've got the room? Just thinking out loud cuz I have a motor waiting to go in my truck.
As for "doing more" - why is "more" always "better"? It is an internetism. Excercising conservative restraint is a prudent course of action IMO.
**** FAST and its over-priced over-hyped under-performing leaky intakes. No thanks. I'd rather fart around with a $50 intake and learn a few things in the process - I am tired of throwing money at things just because. For whatever power is left on the table with this intake, a power adder will solve it - I maintain that the H/C/I LS1 I built for my wagon is the WORST return on investment (power-wise) ever... so much so that I am porting this intake in hopes of uncorking some power vs. the ported LS6 that came off. I took a real hit to my ego with this build.
H/C/I never again... only optimizing stock parts with boost from here on out. It is just plain more rewarding to do things for yourself.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,148
Likes: 53
From: Saskatchewan, Canada - where arguing "DA" is for the slow and weak...
I forgot to mention that I ran out this morning and got the Loctite epoxy (in black). I have about $20 Canadian and 10 hours (also Canadian) invested in this project - that includes reworking the brackets, hoses, injector mounting, etc.
Whats the exchange rate on Canadian hours? Is that like 7 US hours or are they more favorable and end up being 13 US hours?
I hear you about the FAST stuff, I was just pointing out that apparently it's expensive for crazy porting, not that you need it. Just found it interesting.
Don't say FASTS are leaky, lol - I just bought a used one off of the classifieds here for my basically stock transam just cuz the price was good. I've wanted to go H/C/I since I bought my car. But I think that FI is the way to go. I'm seriously concerned about being bored with a 425rwhp car really quickly.
I hear you about the FAST stuff, I was just pointing out that apparently it's expensive for crazy porting, not that you need it. Just found it interesting.
Don't say FASTS are leaky, lol - I just bought a used one off of the classifieds here for my basically stock transam just cuz the price was good. I've wanted to go H/C/I since I bought my car. But I think that FI is the way to go. I'm seriously concerned about being bored with a 425rwhp car really quickly.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,148
Likes: 53
From: Saskatchewan, Canada - where arguing "DA" is for the slow and weak...
Whats the exchange rate on Canadian hours? Is that like 7 US hours or are they more favorable and end up being 13 US hours?
I hear you about the FAST stuff, I was just pointing out that apparently it's expensive for crazy porting, not that you need it. Just found it interesting.
Don't say FASTS are leaky, lol - I just bought a used one off of the classifieds here for my basically stock transam just cuz the price was good. I've wanted to go H/C/I since I bought my car. But I think that FI is the way to go. I'm seriously concerned about being bored with a 425rwhp car really quickly.
I hear you about the FAST stuff, I was just pointing out that apparently it's expensive for crazy porting, not that you need it. Just found it interesting.
Don't say FASTS are leaky, lol - I just bought a used one off of the classifieds here for my basically stock transam just cuz the price was good. I've wanted to go H/C/I since I bought my car. But I think that FI is the way to go. I'm seriously concerned about being bored with a 425rwhp car really quickly.
There is usually a reason a FAST intake goes cheap - check for abuse, cracks, and/or bad seals. They are effective parts - just not a good value in my eyes.
And yes, the exchange rate on billable hours is awful.
I'm aware there is a reason they go for cheap - this one had one of the four TB nut-serts cracked out of it, basically chipped the plastic around the nut and it fell out. Has been epoxied back in. I consider this an easy work around, even if I cant make it look factory. I'll save an couple of hundred bucks over a perfect used one and figure it out myself or I won't buy one at all. They are certainly not a good value.
I am interested in TBSS intakes for my truck though, so looking forward to see how you make out here.
I am interested in TBSS intakes for my truck though, so looking forward to see how you make out here.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,148
Likes: 53
From: Saskatchewan, Canada - where arguing "DA" is for the slow and weak...
Right on. I'll report back later once the epoxy sets... you sound like you are going to need some.
I actually pulled a few nut-serts out of a junk 5.3L intake to replace/add some to this heap - nothing a propane torch couldn't loosen up. Then I heated up the brass nugget and forced it into the new hole - seems to be holding quite well.
I actually pulled a few nut-serts out of a junk 5.3L intake to replace/add some to this heap - nothing a propane torch couldn't loosen up. Then I heated up the brass nugget and forced it into the new hole - seems to be holding quite well.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 609
Likes: 6
From: jacksonville,fl
Hey Mike, Plastic welding is the best way here. While there are made for plastic contact welding tools & hot air welders, looks like you figured out the lowly solder gun melts it back together pretty damn good . An adjustable wood burning tool can also work pretty good. Just step up that process a little bit & cut donor strips off another intake, which will be the same glass filled nylon 66 or try some black zip ties made from nylon 66 as your welding rods. Plastic doesn't have the same cross linked structure after welding, so you just thicken up the area a little bit to make up for it. A similar enough material will expand & contract at the same rate, a metal plug would not. I believe you're one that doesn't care for the 2010 or 2016 Camaro front nose conversions I've done, but hey, it taught me plastic welding.
Glues may work ok with some plastics, but just not near as positive as with welding. For nylon, I'd only care to use it cosmetically.
I'd agree with cutting a 3" hole into the back rather than cutting the whole lid off, it's a much more controllable repair also.
Here's a link to a couple of older threads here if you haven't seen before.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...video-how.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...k-intakes.html
Glues may work ok with some plastics, but just not near as positive as with welding. For nylon, I'd only care to use it cosmetically.
I'd agree with cutting a 3" hole into the back rather than cutting the whole lid off, it's a much more controllable repair also.
Here's a link to a couple of older threads here if you haven't seen before.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...video-how.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...k-intakes.html
Last edited by jlcustomz; Jan 5, 2018 at 10:37 PM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,148
Likes: 53
From: Saskatchewan, Canada - where arguing "DA" is for the slow and weak...
Hey Mike, Plastic welding is the best way here. While there are made for plastic contact welding tools & hot air welders, looks like you figured out the lowly solder gun melts it back together pretty damn good . An adjustable wood burning tool can also work pretty good. Just step up that process a little bit & cut donor strips off another intake, which will be the same glass filled nylon 66 or try some black zip ties made from nylon 66 as your welding rods. Plastic doesn't have the same cross linked structure after welding, so you just thicken up the area a little bit to make up for it. A similar enough material will expand & contract at the same rate, a metal plug would not. I believe you're one that doesn't care for the 2010 or 2016 Camaro front nose conversions I've done, but hey, it taught me plastic welding.
Glues may work ok with some plastics, but just not near as positive as with welding. For nylon, I'd only care to use it cosmetically.
I'd agree with cutting a 3" hole into the back rather than cutting the whole lid off, it's a much more controllable repair also.
Here's a link to a couple of older threads here if you haven't seen before.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...video-how.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...k-intakes.html
Glues may work ok with some plastics, but just not near as positive as with welding. For nylon, I'd only care to use it cosmetically.
I'd agree with cutting a 3" hole into the back rather than cutting the whole lid off, it's a much more controllable repair also.
Here's a link to a couple of older threads here if you haven't seen before.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...video-how.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...k-intakes.html
--- Back to your regularly scheduled update ---
Epoxied the caps on the top and rear. Bucked out an aluminum decorative cap over an old bearing race... guess it really serves to keep the plug from getting sucked in if the epoxy fails.
And then set it in place - there doesn't appear any major issues at this time. Other than the fact the F-body throttle/cruise cables are in no way compatible with the truck cable bracket.
Somebody hand me my welder...
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 609
Likes: 6
From: jacksonville,fl
I'm perfectly cool with anyone not liking something, point was I know more on plastic fabrication than the average idiot from doing those projects.
Was thinking about this last night, were you able to do the porting you wanted to do through the access holes as opposed to shucking the top off?
Hopefully the plug won't get any leak issues, but sometimes you just have to be the first to try something, hell knows I have. But of course there's always a different way to skin a Canadian goose, learned that growing up in sw Louisiana.
Not sure if you ever saw pics of this , but I started on my own cross ram dual plenum intake years ago. Never seemed to get the time to complete it & cleaning up a truck intake may end up being a 2nd choice.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/W5...g=w800-h533-no
Was thinking about this last night, were you able to do the porting you wanted to do through the access holes as opposed to shucking the top off?
Hopefully the plug won't get any leak issues, but sometimes you just have to be the first to try something, hell knows I have. But of course there's always a different way to skin a Canadian goose, learned that growing up in sw Louisiana.
Not sure if you ever saw pics of this , but I started on my own cross ram dual plenum intake years ago. Never seemed to get the time to complete it & cleaning up a truck intake may end up being a 2nd choice.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/W5...g=w800-h533-no
Last edited by jlcustomz; Jan 6, 2018 at 07:04 PM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,148
Likes: 53
From: Saskatchewan, Canada - where arguing "DA" is for the slow and weak...
Oh I definitely accomplished what I wanted despite the limitations I set for myself. And if I screwed this blemished unit up there is another unit on the shelf.
Any updates? I recently street tested an unported tbss intake manifold and it seemed to give better results than a ported tbss intake I tried which had the tube removed. Still haven't dyno'd it but curious on your results.