O.N.

Granatelli, im not one of the haters in this thread if you look through the pages of dribble.

But would it be possible for you to do a new video for all the people out there just any LS engine bang a brand new set of GM wires on it and record the AFR and dyno figure, then do it for MSD then for your wires and then also your wires+your coils.

Put a rest to all this **** and give us something to read and view.
So please a video and the dyno charts with AFR's.

Thanks and once again you have a great product.

safemode

iTrader: (1)

the reason this has nothing to do with sales of a non-supporting vendor is because the discussion is more about the marketing of any such products and the evidence and facts that back them up and how we go about trusting it. That's what is being discussed here and just because Gran is looking more and more legit the more we are digging as far as their claims doesn't mean they are actively marketing the product necessarily.

Ironically, we wouldn't be allowed to have such a discussion with a supporting vendor and be so aggressive with forcing them to back up their marketing of a product that they sold ....so i dont really see how anyone could have a real problem with the thread in general.

i dont think any more videos are really necessary. there are people out there who would refuse any evidence unless they were personally there doing the test or whatever themselves. I think Gran's stuff is out of most of our price range and so it would be nice to put them in the same category as a monster cable but it doesn't look like that's the case. Hopefully they put more effort into putting out independent literature showing how their wires win over others technically and put to rest the 15 year old articles talking about how this or that isn't true or possible so people dont immediately think gran is outright lying.

BattleSausage

iTrader: (3)

Since this is addressed directly to me, I will respond politely. As far as your modular coils go, yes some worked...and when they did they didn't produce an ounce of extra power. In fact I asked questions pertaining to the problems we were having on the dyno and your response was we must have installed them wrong or had a loose connection. After 2 sets with poor results on that particular car, the owner was disgusted and sent them back and reverted to the original coils. No one, not MSD, Accel, etc. has a good track record with making aftermarket cop's. In fact I still remember Steve posting his less than mediocre results on a 800rwhp over on the FORDGT forums. He gained nothing however he didn't rub your nose in the dirt about it. He simply stated that he was disappointed with the results, and as usual you offered nothing more than a sales pitch about how your coils were patented and etc, etc. You keep speaking about how these have been out for X amount of years, but as of yet I haven't seen 1 single private individual such as Steve post results even remotely close to your advertisements. Mihovetz has gone faster than anyone with the modular platform and he rebuffed your statements in the same thread. It's the same story revisited over and over, claims never adding up.

As far as your coil/wire complaints about what I pasted. Your add states that just a set of CNP wires, wires mind you and not coils, will provide up to 400% more current to the plug. Do yourself a favor and actually look at what is posted on your own website so that I don't have point it out to you. How is just a set of 97-10 CNP Wires (connectors as they are called on your site) going to increase voltage up to 400% by themselves. Look back at your comments earlier in this thread on the loss of your wires vs oem. Where are all these magical numbers coming from?

O.N.

ok a mate of mine got a set of firecore50 wires today, we used a multimeter to check the ohms all the wires were 38-39 ohms the old wires only about 12 months old genuine wires were all about 430ohms

we checked the AFR's at idle it was the same and at WOT it was about 0.3 leaner
through most of the rev range it was about 0.5 leaner.

We think that with a retune to suit the wires it "might" be possible to gain more HP.

The was dyno tuned before for the current set up and will be re-tuned in a few weeks for the exact same set up only change being the new firecore50 wires.

I got a set aswell which are custom length as i have my coils relocated and the ohm's were not as impressive some leads coming in at 80 for short ones and longer ones coming in at 140ohms.

Im going to give granatelli a call tonight (im in Australia) and order a set and do some back to back firecore50 v's granatelli's v's MSD's.
My build should be ready in about 2 weeks so i'll have some results in 2 weeks.

Based on the AFR's we had in my mates car i certainly think with a retune to suite the new AFR's we can make a little more power, as we should be able to play with the timing and fuel a bit more.

Paul Bell

iTrader: (9)

I see some here are still saying the Granatelli wires are high priced. I've already shown how they are less money than some other wires on the market.

A set of wires I had Taylor custom make for my LTCC setup about three years ago was considerably more than the $105 that the Granatelli wires were-and they were garbage.

joecar

Pre-made MSD and Taylors list for around $60.

Good deal mate

What scanner/tuner software are you using, can you post log files of each run, if that's ok.

TORCHD 02 TA

iTrader: (39)

Awesome cannot wait!!!

cookba

iTrader: (10)

so the firecore50's went from being in the high 30's for stock length wires to 140's for custom length? how long were the the custom length ones? I have a coil relocation on my car too.

Granatelli

AFR should not really change - I have no MSD wires. And MSD sponsors our race cars so I have no reason to make them look bad. I do you a brand new 2011 Camaro 6 speed and I happy to run your tests. I also agree a stone stock LS does not need to change over to our coils and the stock ones are plenty powerful

I will run you test as requested by next Friday (I hope)

Well said - Also the reason (I think) the thread has not dropped and I have not been kicked off is because I supported this site for many years. I did not start the thread I merely addressed the questions



http://www.gmsvideos.com/video/1523

http://www.gmsvideos.com/video/1358

That is a very broad statement and just not true – MSD is merely a factory coil in red and Accel I agree are less then stock output


I don’t know who “STEVE” is – sorry. However there have been many positive posts and great results. I don’t give excuses – I give solutions and on the occasion there is an issue we ALWAYS take care of the customer.

Mihovetz is now a customer – has been for a while. Everyone knows that when I ran a Mod Motor in 2001 I was hands down the king of ET and speed and I weight 500lbs more than Mihovetz. The feud was akin to any great rivalry – they paid us both 5k each to match in race Rockingham NC (even though we both live in California) - Winner took home another 10k. Needless to say I drove hone with 15k. That car ALWAYS ran the first design on now famous Granatelli Coils. – I agree you can not make everyone happy but you have a woody for me…not sure why

http://www.stangtv.com/features/inte...-psca-in-2011/ Racing again


http://www.gmsvideos.com/video/10753

squale iii

Good deal! I'll hold on to my $105 until I see your results. What mods are done to your car by the way? Forced induction or NA? WHP, etc. Thanks.

BattleSausage

iTrader: (3)

Yep, you're a legend in your own mind. The person who did unbiased testing on his own car with loads of data, all on his own dime might I add, was Steve Barker. He posted his results and you added nothing to the conversation other than sidestepping the results and peddling more of your garbage. Since then they've ban you for the copious amounts of negative results/reviews of your products. Some members I've met and others I haven't, but one thing was certain and unanimous among all...these people have the money to spend on performance parts looking to get every ounce of power out of their dime...amazingly (surprise) they didn't end up being so receptive to parts that never owned up to their unsubstantiated claims. You haven't and won't ever provide results substantiating these claims made by average joe's because they don't exist. You still didn't even answer my question in the last post because you're too busy spreading more manure in the field. Most of the people in this thread haven't even had first had experience with the products in question...I have and let me say they weren't even mediocre at best. If they worked, I'd be the first jump on the band wagon but they didn't produce...on multiple cars over several years. The bogus claims on gains are just icing on the cake.

You won't find a top racer in the country that will tell you that a set of plug wires is the best way to spend money to gain power. Why? Because they in themselves won't make extra power unless the set they are replacing is not functioning properly. Same goes with OEM coils, as they've proven time and again to make well in excess of 1000rwhp. Unfortunately this world has no shortage of idiots, and you prey on them. It doesn't matter how many people experience how your products don't meet the claims, as you'll just find someone else to buy your products. You can now peddle your crap all you want, I'm bowing out before the dung is too high to see over, but if posting in this thread keeps one person from wasting hard earned money on junk that doesn't meet the hype it was worth it. There is a reason you're the laughing stock on pretty much every performance enthusiast forum. Rejoice! That ego exuding from such a small minded complex has earned it.

O.N.

my car is N/A LSX454 making 600rwhp i'll be putting it on the dyno in about 3 weeks.
My mates car is also N/A 6L making about 500rwhp.

Granatelli

I will dyno a TT Camaro and a stone stock '11

Hey I have always said I put my pants on 1 leg at a time just like everyone here. I am not one to honk my own horn unless asked to justify what I did or how I got there. They say you can judge a person by the friend they keep. Well I am proud to say GM racing supports us in all our GM efforts and Ford Racing has continued to support us every level. Indy Car, Land Speed, Drag racing, etc. I repeat, you will be hard pressed to find anyone that will tell you I come off as “better” – it is just not me.


You are doing what you do best. Conjecture and reframing your direction. I am sorry Steve Barker does not ring a bell but I am sure I tried to help. I always do. Look at how many people are here bashing MSD. For all the good they have done and for all the people and cars they have supported to be bashed by a tiny few for what amount to petty BS is ridiculous. We should all spend our time more wisely.


No sh-t Sherlock I NEVER said it was THE BEST way to spend your money either. I am just offering a great product and I have adjusted the prices here so everyone can find it more appealing. I never cower away from idiots and pot stirrers and do my best to address it when I can. Lucky there are very few of you

As for top racers running our products: Livernois – Ford and Chevy applications, NASCAR – more than half the field private brand from us. It has further been documented that MSD MAG 44’s will kill a set of the best wires in less then 20 passes - not even MSD has a wires that can withstand their own MAG. Granatelli does The same wire we sell to everyone here has over 200 passes on 3400+ hp Pro Mods – Even those guys were skeptical for the long time and would only run the wire during testing. Then for the race they would go back to a set of MSD, run them for 10 or 14 passes and throw them away before they could “potentially” fail. All I could do was sit there and keep pushing the product. Now we are golden and the only stuff they run. Mike Murrillo - one of the most coveted SSO racers in the last 20 years, Chip Haveman, Ken Duttweiler – King of ultra high hp Turbo Motors. But best of all, 1000’s of Average Joe’s that keep coming back for more. Those are the guys that mean the most in the long run and we have never lost sight of that

I would also agree there are a few guys out there that have made upwards or more than 1000 rwhp with stock coils on Ford and Chevys. But not for long. Just like everything else that kind of load will break the parts down much sooner and that just won’t happen with the Granatelli parts. So add Longevity to our list of features and benefits.

See we agree on that too…I just wish you and the rest of them would leave me us honest hard working Average Joe’s alone

We can only wish

Golf&GM

iTrader: (22)

Woah hardcharger, didn't say anything about free wires. I asked where are your dyno results that show the wires gain power on OUR cars. Ya know, the LSx based cars because you are on LS1tech.com. You make the claim on your site, that LS1s specifically can gain up to 15hp. Do you have dyno sheets or video to back up those claims?

That's a good point, but GM is also within about 10% of their power claim. I'm not quite sure if you're "up to 15hp" claim would produce as well.

My point you missed completely - where is your testing with gen III and IV SBC engines that show an increase in power?

Granatelli

Up to - is the key frase. We have had customers report better numbers than we produced here - Naturally all advertising is slanted in favor of the seller. But LSx specific - the videos about are what we have to offer

We have seen 7hp here and we have had others from around the country report up to 15

Direct OEM replacement, exceeds OEM specifications, OBD-II computer safe
Increase power to the spark plug up to 400% over stock - admittedly this applied to the Ford Coils more so than the GM stuff - the verbiage is generic to cover a wide array of applications
Customers have reported up to 15HP (normally aspirated) & 35HP (s/c, turbo, & nitrous). Average gains on an otherwise stock motor are 5hp N/A and 12 to 15 with factory forced induction
0 Ohm resistance, no RFI / EMI interference thanks to patented protector ring
Patented* design works with all fuel injection systems, street cars and race cars
Solid stainless connector cable with stainless snap lock spark plug connectors
High temperature silicone boots, 8MM jacket with fiberglass-reinforced braid resists temperatures up to 500 degrees f (1200 degree f. boots optional).
Ideal for use with aftermarket headers and/or turbocharger systems
Includes all necessary hardware
Over 600 fitments!
* Granatelli O ohm wires are patent protected by United States Patent number 7,185,622. This patent covers our unique method of producing ignition wires of extremely low resistance while maintaining very high noise suppression. The benefit of this invention is that full electrical energy from the ignition source is transmitted to the spark plug. The end result of the application of this method is increased horsepower, torque and fuel economy.

I am doing the best that I can - if you do not see your EXACT application - please drive to GMS and I will dyno your car for you NO CHARGE after you purchase the wires at the super low Forum pricing we continue to offer

I am not here to fight. I hope I did not come off that way. BattleSuage and X-ray excluded

Golf&GM

iTrader: (22)

Wouldn't happen to have an east coast office would you?

Granatelli

Summit
Jegs
Keystone
Turbo People of New York

where are you on the easy coast?

Golf&GM

iTrader: (22)

I'm in Roanoke, VA. If you can find someone within reason with a dyno I'll buy a set of wires and do a before and after as long as I'm not paying for the dyno time. I'm not too thrilled with the way my MSD wires fit anyway. Biggest places close to me would be Richmond and the Greensboro area.

squale iii

I doubt he's going to just buy you free dyno time (at any place other than his own shop), that would eat up any profit from the set of wires lol. I on the other hand have a dyno available per my tuner! But, the australian guy is doing some testing it looks like so we can wait and see what kind of results he has.

From one Italian to another (Granatelli), I hope it shows gains on a dyno. If so you'll have a new client. However, I'm the type of guy who will just remove my passenger seat prior to racing before spending $100 on a few ponies

BattleSausage

iTrader: (3)

If you can't remember then go back and read. That thread alone reiterates what 90+% of those posting results from your products have found. The rest throw out butt dyno results...truly helpful don't you think. BTW, MSD makes SOME good products, some of yours I'm sure are probably good too. However, they aren't the ones posting unsubstantiated power claims, such as 2mpg increase or up to a 400% output increase to the plug, on their website. If you were truthful products I wouldn't give you flack, nor would most people.

Electrical 101, spark plugs use only the electrical energy necessary. An ignition wire such as yours that allegedly generates an "increase" in spark energy (up to 400% according to your claims) will have no effect on the spark jumping across the spark plug gap. I can screw a 60 watt light bulb into a socket designed to supply enough wattage to a 1,000,000 watt light bulb, but the bulb is still only going to consume 60 watts. The minute differences in the amount of voltage that is carried between your wires and a competitor or oem will make no difference. Hell, I can gap a plug an extra .005" with an oem wire and generally see and increase in power up to a certain threshold. We can talk about this all day long but the bottom line won't change and no amount common sense will change your position on the matter. What a magazine publishes from a paying vendor/sponsor must be right huh?

I have no complaints about your pricing. It's the fact that you always avoid the logical and truthful statements of us "idiots and pot stirrers". Hell, the only people here you have supporting you are those that haven't done independent testing on their cars other than butt dyno claims. "It feels faster" don't cut it in the real work bud.

A few? Where the **** have you been, hiding in a hole. I'm lowballing and roughly 95% of those making said numbers have been and will continue to run the stock coils. Stock coils aren't anemic like you lead many to believe. Why don't you come over to YB and post this garbage, where most of the top engine builders/tuners/racers in the industry shoot the **** & lend helpful friendly advice? I know you're there lurking in the shadows, but as on every other site just like this on, those with first hand experience and knowledge won't back you and instead eat you alive. Instead you move around from forum to forum arguing with the average joe. It's fine because you can insult people like me who rebuff your mindless conjecture with accurate thought, because you can. Most people who don't understand or want to delve that deeply into a subject believe the claims. However, you don't show your face and spew this bullshit with those respected in the field because they either call your bluff or know you well enough to ignore you. You always end up looking like the *** you are, which you clearly can't handle as shown on numerous threads over the years. Once you may have been a pioneer and no one will deny you any gratitude you may deserve in that respect, but now you're a shell of that person who is more intent on selling the public rhetoric and bs to make a quick buck.