ChocoTaco369

Oh, so sorry, an extremely rare typo on an internet forum. Don't take points off my test, teacher


Nope, I see the point perfectly. I see a guy that went from ancient midlength headers and a poorly designed y-pipe to longtubes with high velocity merge collectors and a velocity spike and a MUCH better designed y-pipe with a MUCH better merge and extremely high flowing cats that don't take away virtually any horsepower and didn't gain anything at all. Perhaps it's you that doesn't understand this. It wouldn't be the first time.

Right. Tune out that little voice of common sense. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Maybe you're not smart enough to realize that 1 7/8 headers are a bad choice on a 346, even virtually any H/C 346. Tony Mamo seems to believe this. I think I'd believe him over some random guy on a forum no one pays any attention to.

They're very high flowing cats. They take away virtually nothing.

Are you this dense? The argument was if they would take away vs. a 1 3/4 longtube. A 1 3/4 longtube wasn't even used in this test. He switched to 1 7/8 headers and couldn't even outpull a mid on the top end. Look at the curve, it's not even any better. I'm not impressed at all.

The idea is not to "put him down." At the very least, he has a longtube that'll at least last forever unlike the Macs. It's simply discouraging other members from doing this if performance is the goal.

miamifan3413

iTrader: (1)

If they are high flow cats maybe -2 or -3hp at most you'd lose. I had a buddy dyno going from stock rims and tires to 17x11 w/315's and lost barely any power at all, I think it was all down low like 2hp. But whatever, a gain is a gain i guess to some.

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

???? And if performance wasnt the goal you would recomend what?

For the last time he added a world class header system that will meet his future needs. You would rather him buy it one step at a time and then have to re-sell take a loss and then spend more money.

Look more than one day ahead Taco. Your failing to see the road in front of you.

Doing it your way will cost him twice as much.

Tony Mamo and I have worked together in the past. We went with a stepped to 1 7/8 for my 347 with his massaged 205's ported FAST 90 and 238/240 cam. Any other questions? Stepped headers have a purpose.

ChocoTaco369

Right. Very high flowing cats and larger tires won't make up for going from a mid with standard collectors and a badly designed y-pipe to longtubes with nice collectors and a very well-designed y-pipe. At least it shouldn't if you picked your combo right. Of course, it's hard to tell anything at all when there are so many differences in the dyno graph. The only way to really tell the difference is to put the Mac's back on with the larger wheels and dyno it, then put the ARH's back on and dyno again all on the same dyno, same day. These numbers are very unreliable and, IMO, disappointing as they stand. However, there is a huge margin of error, here, so it's hard to tell anything definitive at all.

Even then it's an unreliable argument since it's going from mids to longtubes. The OP would have to buy 1 3/4 ARH's and 1 7/8 ARH's and dyno them back to back to say anything definitive. Until that happens, Tony Mamo's dyno of the 1 3/4 LG's demolishing the 1 7/8 ARH's is still the best evidence offered thus far.

ChocoTaco369

Simple. Buy 1 3/4 headers and put them on. The OP doesn't planning on going big with his setup for what seems like a few years down the road. IT may not even happen. The smartest thing to do is buy the appropriate header now, then if the time comes, sell it because you will recover 2/3 of the cost, anyway since they're stainless. THEN buy the larger header if it is absolutely necessary. When you set your goals so far in the future, they tend not to happen at all.

No, it won't. His "future needs" are years in the future. His "future needs" may not exist 6 months from now because he may not own the car. It would be different if he was in the process of building a 408 and already ordered a turbo for it. The fact is, his future plans may not even happen because they're just too far away. Especially with $4/gal gas on the horizon and a slowing economy, people may not want a 9 mpg car years in the future.

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

Wow, you just killed this guy and his car to make your point. You really do take the cake . Guess what... tomorrow actualy does get here ..LOL

Benjamin Russick

iTrader: (1)

Like I've said all along, the MACs are a good header and obviously make power. I will always recommend a used set for a street car on a budget. To the OP, don't stress over it...

landonew

Ehh. I slept on it and decided to clarify some points. STILL THINK THE COMPARISION BLOWS, but I can acknowledge the points made. Still, we must remember that although adding a 9" can cause up to 15hp in parisitic loss, the OP IS NOT RUNNING A 9". And I haven't seen any #s on how much HP the heavier wheels are worth.

OP, I hope you didn't take my previous comments the wrong way. The fact is I think LTs are a good mod. Thats why i have my kooks 1 7/8" LTs. My issues was that your comparision doesn't show anything, and you are expecting members who are considering purchasing LTs to believe that the difference was eaten up by heavier wheels.

Conclusion. GOOD MOD, BAD COMPARISION. IMO, LTS don't really show significant benifits till after a cam anyway. Its a solid modification if you plan on camming the car someday. If not, the money could have been spent in a better place. Anyhow, sorry for appearing hostile in the earlier posts.

ta_06374

iTrader: (7)

Mac is not a bad header at all, even more with a little work....Mine has the 3 bolt collector setup to replace the ball and has the flowmaster merge. Im willing to bet they dyno within 2-3 hp of LT headers. The best thing is I only paid $250 for them.

sixvi6-camaro

iTrader: (9)

3.6hp loss from this guy switching from 9" to 11" rims. Its an old test but the wheel change was done on the same day, same Dyno.

http://www.ws6.com/wheels.htm

Choco Did your mom not hug you when you were a baby or something? Its always you destroying someones post and insulting people for not modding their car exactly how you see fit. Seriously man chill out.. give your advice and opinion and move on. Its obvious you are very passionate about your way of doing things but there is just no need to be soo nasty about everything. you are scaring people off more than helping anything.

landonew

Finally some more data! So we are talking about 5-6hp. Now that is not too bad.

ta_06374

iTrader: (7)

So he lost 3.6hp from the wheels and 2hp from the cats for a total of 5.6hp loss. So he only gained about 8hp over the stock mac mids.

Jimmy P

iTrader: (177)

Although not the best comparison, it is a worthwhile mod if you plan on modding it more in the future, to take full advantage of those headers. I went from Macs( already on the car when I bought it), to Pacesetters, to Kooks 1 7/8"-2" now.

COD02SS

I would love to try ebay LT's but i got my shorties for so cheap. **** it

INMY01TA

iTrader: (1)

First of all to the original poster, CHoco is an idiot, so dont listen to him. The cats and wheels prolly cost you 5-10hp. I'd be surprised if switching from Macs to long tubes picked up more than that.

ls2 bait

iTrader: (11)

next day, same dyno, same weather. im not trying to argue with u im just saying 19hp is not the norm. as a matter of fact i dont think there is a norm. every car responds diff to diff mods. my car picked up 70+ rwhp from my heads, another car on the same dyno picked up 30 rwhp with my exact heads and exact supposrting mods.

ls2 bait

iTrader: (11)

i just looked at my gmhtp from last month and they lost 5hp/ 4tq with the 9" swap.i myslef am going to try a back to back dyno pull with my 11" rims and 9" rims. im even going to jack it up on the dyno.

jmilz28

iTrader: (13)

Choco, pay attention here. Everyone else too: I'll bet if I put the 17X9.5s back on, I pick up 5-10hp and close to the same torque. Care to pay for the dyno if I am right?

ChocoTaco369

Right...and your next sentence:

Wow, that sounds like some definitive information there, Captain Jackass

Thank God for smart people like you on this forum. Guys like you are just full of good info

jmilz28

iTrader: (13)

No worries, thanks for manning up and apologizing. Point is, everyone thought I would lose and I didn't, I actually picked up a small amount. And it sets me up for the future. I wasn't after an improvement but considering I picked up a couple, after the heavier wheels, I call it good.

Also, we ALL need to stop thinking in terms of HP IMO, but rather in terms of percentages. If you lose 3hp on a 300hp mill, odds are you will lose 4 on a 400hp mill. ALso, on the 3.6 above, those were OEM speedline rims - much lighter than the aftermarket repops. Rotating mass is important, especially unsprung rotating mass.

Again, for the record: this motor has 137k on it. It runs awesome, but a big cuber will replace it.