Kooks Revised F body Header
06-23-2008, 01:29 PM
#62
TECH Resident
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tree-Hugging, Bug eating CALI'
Posts: 848
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You are correct, there will always be one primary tube that isn't welded on the inside. The reason for this is because the other three are welded into place and the last one - because its too close to the other three pipes - cannot be welded easily. There is nothing wrong with this design. The problem is the last tube is supposed to be a "slip" fit. Meaning the female tube (the swedged tube) should be no more than a couple of thousands of an inch (0.002") larger than the insertion tube. This very close fit will not leak if done correctly. The problem is with QTP's quality. They over-swedge the tube to ensure clearance which will slip on easily if they are out of tolerance with the other pieces of the mating assembly (remember this tube is the last piece of the assembled header), at this point they want it to go out the door so they leave it with a huge gap and if you complain they simply consider you a problem customer, not a customer with problems.
09-07-2008, 08:35 AM
#65
On The Tree
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Camano Island Wa
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is a bump for Maryland Speed. You guys (& Gal...Jen) were great! I was moving between San Diego and Seattle, and Jen kept tracking me down (SHE calling ME....not me calling them!!) so she could give forwarding addresses to UPS and FedEx. The headers went out for coating, so they arrived separate from the ORY.
And, since I was not in a hurry, and willing to wait, they gave me a further discounted back-order price.
You guys, and especially Jen really went the extra mile! Thank you! So different from the online speedshop I bought my shocks/LCAs/SFCs etc from!
Now, I'm still out of the country, but will be installing the Kooks in a few weeks. Meantime, although I bought the 1 3/4, coated and ORY for quality and performance, after reading other threads here, I'm kind of holding my breath about how good or bad this catless setup is going to SOUND with my Corsa :-/
And, since I was not in a hurry, and willing to wait, they gave me a further discounted back-order price.
You guys, and especially Jen really went the extra mile! Thank you! So different from the online speedshop I bought my shocks/LCAs/SFCs etc from!
Now, I'm still out of the country, but will be installing the Kooks in a few weeks. Meantime, although I bought the 1 3/4, coated and ORY for quality and performance, after reading other threads here, I'm kind of holding my breath about how good or bad this catless setup is going to SOUND with my Corsa :-/
09-07-2008, 09:14 AM
#66
Let me just make a comment here about Kooks. As you can read above, the driver's side of the y-pipe on my car got crushed and a hole in it by a chunk of roadway concrete. I figured I'd call them directly, and see about getting that one peice of 3" tubing with two bends in it.
I figured since according to Kooks, they bend their own pipe, that it would be pretty inexpensive directly from them since it should be really just the cost of the material and the 5 minutes to bend the pipe.
I get a call back and it's $167 for that one section of pipe. They told me that since they were going to have to break up a ypipe, they would charge be half of the cost of the whole ypipe....
I just don't get it.... If you supposedly bend your own pipe, why are you splitting up a set.
Sorry, I'm just annoyed. I even asked that question, and the guy sounded annoyed that I was questioning that they bend their own pipe.
The guys at Kooks have every right to charge what they see fit, I was just really shocked that they wouldn't have been a little more reasonable with the price. Oh well, I'll go another route to fix my system.
I figured since according to Kooks, they bend their own pipe, that it would be pretty inexpensive directly from them since it should be really just the cost of the material and the 5 minutes to bend the pipe.
I get a call back and it's $167 for that one section of pipe. They told me that since they were going to have to break up a ypipe, they would charge be half of the cost of the whole ypipe....
I just don't get it.... If you supposedly bend your own pipe, why are you splitting up a set.
Sorry, I'm just annoyed. I even asked that question, and the guy sounded annoyed that I was questioning that they bend their own pipe.
The guys at Kooks have every right to charge what they see fit, I was just really shocked that they wouldn't have been a little more reasonable with the price. Oh well, I'll go another route to fix my system.
Last edited by The Alchemist; 09-07-2008 at 05:31 PM. Reason: Toning down my comments due to sleep depravation.
09-07-2008, 09:25 AM
#67
10 Second Club
iTrader: (38)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Phoenix, Az
Posts: 1,259
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
^^^^^ They probably do have to break up a Y-pipe package. Most places build their stuff in the same quantity. So if they are building Y-pipes they have an equal number of all parts involved to make complete sets. I'm sure that they don't get a lot of requests for just one specific y-pipe part. $167 is outrageuos for that one section, have you priced out stainless steel or any other metal for that matter lately? Steel prices have gone thru the roof. Everything is done in house and Kooks and I can guarantee you that they do not farm out their work.
09-07-2008, 09:35 AM
#68
If they truly do things in house, then they are making each section at a time in a production run. So they would make 50 of the left side and 50 of the right side, but what's to stop them from setting up the pipe bender to make one driver's side peice.
I'm not bashing, just surprised and annoyed. They don't have to do anything for me, I understand that, but it would have been nice if they offered to make an extra driver's side the next time they do a production run.
Again, they don't owe me any favors, but it would have been good customer service to do something.
I'm not bashing, just surprised and annoyed. They don't have to do anything for me, I understand that, but it would have been nice if they offered to make an extra driver's side the next time they do a production run.
Again, they don't owe me any favors, but it would have been good customer service to do something.
09-07-2008, 04:23 PM
#69
Closed ex-Sponsor Account
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Let me just make a comment here about Kooks. As you can read above, the driver's side of the y-pipe on my car got crushed and a hole in it by a chunk of roadway concrete. I figured I'd call them directly, and see about getting that one peice of 3" tubing with two bends in it.
I figured since according to Kooks, they bend their own pipe, that it would be pretty inexpensive directly from them since it should be really just the cost of the material and the 5 minutes to bend the pipe.
I get a call back and it's $167 for that one section of pipe. They told me that since they were going to have to break up a ypipe, they would charge be half of the cost of the whole ypipe....
I just don't get it.... If you supposedly bend your own pipe, why are you splitting up a set.
Sorry, I'm just annoyed. I even asked that question, and the guy sounded annoyed that I was questioning that they bend their own pipe.
Lets be honest here, all of the header 'retailers' have someone else bend their pipe for them, and they just stick on a brand name and call it theirs. The design might be theirs but don't be fooled by 'the quality of the work of header A is better than header B' since they are all farmed out.
If I'm wrong, prove it to me with pictures of your exclusive in house fabrication shop. I think SLP is the only one with one.
I figured since according to Kooks, they bend their own pipe, that it would be pretty inexpensive directly from them since it should be really just the cost of the material and the 5 minutes to bend the pipe.
I get a call back and it's $167 for that one section of pipe. They told me that since they were going to have to break up a ypipe, they would charge be half of the cost of the whole ypipe....
I just don't get it.... If you supposedly bend your own pipe, why are you splitting up a set.
Sorry, I'm just annoyed. I even asked that question, and the guy sounded annoyed that I was questioning that they bend their own pipe.
Lets be honest here, all of the header 'retailers' have someone else bend their pipe for them, and they just stick on a brand name and call it theirs. The design might be theirs but don't be fooled by 'the quality of the work of header A is better than header B' since they are all farmed out.
If I'm wrong, prove it to me with pictures of your exclusive in house fabrication shop. I think SLP is the only one with one.
09-07-2008, 05:02 PM
#70
On The Tree
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Central IN
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Keep in mind, not all stainless is created equal. I know we have about 8 specifications of stainless we use in the mining industry. We even have some that has the same magnetic property as iron. I have saw cheap stainless rust through. So, just keep this in mind...just because two headers look like they are made of the same stainless does not mean they will both hold up the same.
09-07-2008, 05:12 PM
#71
If they truly do things in house, then they are making each section at a time in a production run. So they would make 50 of the left side and 50 of the right side, but what's to stop them from setting up the pipe bender to make one driver's side peice.
I'm not bashing, just surprised and annoyed. They don't have to do anything for me, I understand that, but it would have been nice if they offered to make an extra driver's side the next time they do a production run.
Again, they don't owe me any favors, but it would have been good customer service to do something.
I'm not bashing, just surprised and annoyed. They don't have to do anything for me, I understand that, but it would have been nice if they offered to make an extra driver's side the next time they do a production run.
Again, they don't owe me any favors, but it would have been good customer service to do something.
They have to make sure the "part" replacement cost is not cheaper than somebody buying a complete kit. Or you will have people ordering the parts and pieciing together a complete unit.
Uou may get a better price having a distributor contacting them, and passing on the wholesale price, vs retail, that has to keep in line with the retail pricing of the product.
Ryan
09-07-2008, 05:28 PM
#72
If you look at the kooks ypipe, it is in two peices, the one is off the driver's side and has two bends, and a crush in it. The passenger is more complicated, with not only more pipe, but also the merge welded in it.
When I laughed at the $167 price, I asked how they came up with that and he said it was simply have the retail price of the ypipe. I just thought it was just wrong to charge half the price when it certainly wasn't half the cost in labor or materials.
Again, it's just me, and I'm not bashing kooks, but I was just really surprised. I will go back and edit some of my harsh words from earlier. What can I say, I was up all night with a screaming 1 month old.
When I laughed at the $167 price, I asked how they came up with that and he said it was simply have the retail price of the ypipe. I just thought it was just wrong to charge half the price when it certainly wasn't half the cost in labor or materials.
Again, it's just me, and I'm not bashing kooks, but I was just really surprised. I will go back and edit some of my harsh words from earlier. What can I say, I was up all night with a screaming 1 month old.
09-07-2008, 09:19 PM
#73
Just thought I'd chime in about the merge or hvmc debate. I can't see or feel much difference between what QTP's did for my 99 T/A as Jethot's did for my 99 Z28. I think people just get too hung up on minute details, much like this cam that cam debate for 6 peak hp.
09-08-2008, 12:04 AM
#74
10 Second Club
iTrader: (38)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Phoenix, Az
Posts: 1,259
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You pretty much answered your own question, they probably run a single part evry day then set the machine up for a different part. Like mentioned above, it takes time to set up machines to run parts. Afterall, it's not their fault you ruined your y-pipe.
09-08-2008, 02:07 AM
#75
In all honesty, in this industry, any time you purchase a component of a part it is gonna cost more than you expect. For instance, the tips on SLP's LM systems are like $50 some odd bucks each if you buy them alone which seems really expensive for a $390 system.
That being said, in your case, half the cost of a regular Y-pipe is fair IMO. You are assuming they can just throw a pipe on a bender and send it out in a few days. With production it does not work like that. I know from dealing with Kooks that the bender is typically the bottleneck in production and everything is scheduled a month or two out. Whenever we are waiting on something it is because it is "scheduled to be bent". It also takes time to reset the bender from one job to another.
They run 30 of this bend for this part and 30 of that bend for another part. It is impractical to change around the bender for a one off...especially for a pipe you had in your mind you probaly did not want to spend more than ~$75 on. Because of this you would not see your pipe until they bent F-body Y-pipes again..which would not be till they started to run out of them (could be months depending on what is on the shelf). So the only practical way for them to get you the Y-pipe in a reasonable amount of time would be to cut up an assembled Y-pipe. So techncially, you are getting half a Y-pipe..because they are cutting a whole one up. One thing I don't get is why they would even cut it up...it would make more sense to just send the half you need with the flanges. It makes no sense to waste the labor.
That being said, you also got a pretty high price quote because you called direct, and they only sell at retail direct. If you called a dealer, they likely would have been able to help you out more and given you a better price.
That being said, in your case, half the cost of a regular Y-pipe is fair IMO. You are assuming they can just throw a pipe on a bender and send it out in a few days. With production it does not work like that. I know from dealing with Kooks that the bender is typically the bottleneck in production and everything is scheduled a month or two out. Whenever we are waiting on something it is because it is "scheduled to be bent". It also takes time to reset the bender from one job to another.
They run 30 of this bend for this part and 30 of that bend for another part. It is impractical to change around the bender for a one off...especially for a pipe you had in your mind you probaly did not want to spend more than ~$75 on. Because of this you would not see your pipe until they bent F-body Y-pipes again..which would not be till they started to run out of them (could be months depending on what is on the shelf). So the only practical way for them to get you the Y-pipe in a reasonable amount of time would be to cut up an assembled Y-pipe. So techncially, you are getting half a Y-pipe..because they are cutting a whole one up. One thing I don't get is why they would even cut it up...it would make more sense to just send the half you need with the flanges. It makes no sense to waste the labor.
That being said, you also got a pretty high price quote because you called direct, and they only sell at retail direct. If you called a dealer, they likely would have been able to help you out more and given you a better price.
If you look at the kooks ypipe, it is in two peices, the one is off the driver's side and has two bends, and a crush in it. The passenger is more complicated, with not only more pipe, but also the merge welded in it.
When I laughed at the $167 price, I asked how they came up with that and he said it was simply have the retail price of the ypipe. I just thought it was just wrong to charge half the price when it certainly wasn't half the cost in labor or materials.
Again, it's just me, and I'm not bashing kooks, but I was just really surprised. I will go back and edit some of my harsh words from earlier. What can I say, I was up all night with a screaming 1 month old.
When I laughed at the $167 price, I asked how they came up with that and he said it was simply have the retail price of the ypipe. I just thought it was just wrong to charge half the price when it certainly wasn't half the cost in labor or materials.
Again, it's just me, and I'm not bashing kooks, but I was just really surprised. I will go back and edit some of my harsh words from earlier. What can I say, I was up all night with a screaming 1 month old.
09-08-2008, 08:12 AM
#76
LS1TECH Sponsor
Thread Starter
Alchemist I am sorry that you are unhappy with what went on. We do production runs of 50 units per run the problem is that normally before the production run is complete all the units are pre sold. So we would have to back order someone elses product to break up a y pipe for you. I told my sales team to tell you if you can wait until the next run we would bend up just your driverside for you. All our bending is done in house on 1 of our 7 CNC mandel Bending machine's so if you can wait please contact one of our reputable dealer such as Maryland Speed and they can give you a other then retail quote. We only quote retail out of the shopto make it fair for all of our dealers out there. Agian Sorry for the inconveinance.
George Rumore
General Manager
1-866-586-Kook Ext. 308
GeorgeR@Kookscustomheaders.com
45 Years of Racing and Engineering Experience
George Rumore
General Manager
1-866-586-Kook Ext. 308
GeorgeR@Kookscustomheaders.com
45 Years of Racing and Engineering Experience
09-08-2008, 08:35 PM
#77
Let me just say this, I'm a little sleep deprived these days, hell, I'm typing this sitting in the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia due to my 1 month old having a vomiting spell Sunday night.
I replied to this thread when I probably shouldn't have, and again, I reiterate that I wasn't bashing Kooks, I was just really surprised.
And to the ***** that said it wasn't Kooks fault I ruined my ypipe, NO **** dumbass, I never blamed them. But since it was their ypipe, I figured that would be the people to call to look into getting a replacement. Hell you wouldn't call MAC if you broke your DELL would you?
I'm simply going to pull of that side of the ypipe and have it repaired locally for a couple bucks.
Sorry George, I wasn't trying to bash, was just surprised.
I replied to this thread when I probably shouldn't have, and again, I reiterate that I wasn't bashing Kooks, I was just really surprised.
And to the ***** that said it wasn't Kooks fault I ruined my ypipe, NO **** dumbass, I never blamed them. But since it was their ypipe, I figured that would be the people to call to look into getting a replacement. Hell you wouldn't call MAC if you broke your DELL would you?
I'm simply going to pull of that side of the ypipe and have it repaired locally for a couple bucks.
Sorry George, I wasn't trying to bash, was just surprised.
09-08-2008, 08:38 PM
#78
I told my sales team to tell you if you can wait until the next run we would bend up just your driverside for you. All our bending is done in house on 1 of our 7 CNC mandel Bending machine's so if you can wait please contact one of our reputable dealer such as Maryland Speed and they can give you a other then retail quote. We only quote retail out of the shopto make it fair for all of our dealers out there. Agian Sorry for the inconveinance.
George Rumore
General Manager
1-866-586-Kook Ext. 308
GeorgeR@Kookscustomheaders.com
45 Years of Racing and Engineering Experience
George Rumore
General Manager
1-866-586-Kook Ext. 308
GeorgeR@Kookscustomheaders.com
45 Years of Racing and Engineering Experience
Thanks.
