Badmire68

iTrader: (55)

yank those springs off and check the seals and make sure you cannot see anything wrong with the guides. It just seems like alot of oil for it to be the guides and seals. but who knows. it is just a lot of oil period. I connot believe it has that much oil going through it and feels like it is running ok. One thing you could do is to put your stock heads back on and see if that solves the problem. Again lots of work but atleast you can rule the heads out and send them back to TSP to take care of it if it is the problem.

kyles2000z

iTrader: (8)

if its the only way to get them to stand behind their product, i guess that will have to be his final option after chasing everything else down!

MrDavid

iTrader: (11)

It has crossed my mind to put the stock heads back on, but that is a lot of work, and since I am not doing all the labor myself, it isn't free. If the catch can fails to improve anything, the heads are going to come off.

Badmire68

iTrader: (55)

for them to stand behind it they will have to come off anyway. you can have the heads swaped in a day or atleast a few hours to pull the springs and check the seals. They already said they would send you new seals for free. I'm sure if there is a problem with the heads they will take care of it.

MrDavid

iTrader: (11)

I already have new seals. I have posted that several times in this thread. Gary checked several of the seals and they all seemed to be seated ok, and none appeared to be damaged.

Beaflag VonRathburg

iTrader: (176)

I'm leaning towards it being a problem with the heads, but won't pass 100% judgement until the PCV issue is addressed. I've seen a few TSP heads crack, but those were older versions.

I think the milk jug idea was actually a good one. You could just set it there and see if that is causing the oiling issue. You could probably temporarily drive it like that if you strapped it down.

itchygomey98

iTrader: (2)

I hope you get this sorted out.
That aside, I looked at your previous posts in regards to your engine and it appears you are very quick to point fingers, call people liars, and apparently from the link I provided lie about things to get it your way.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/ls1tech-s...rops-sdpc.html

In my experience TSP has great customer service and it's unfortunate that you don't feel you've been getting the same. I know waiting for parts and waiting to find out what's wrong sucks, but I think you're going to have to excercise some patience on issues like this. PS - I've also found customer service is usually better when the company doesn't feel they are being attacked - on a public forum no less.

I'm not saying there's no way it's the heads. It could very well be. I'm just tossing in my 2 cents so that maybe you can find a better way to sort this out.

Good luck with your engine.

TLewis4095

iTrader: (10)

Thought I'd jump in here and realize it is a little on the late side.

With a oil seperating catch can to be the most effective, (especially with a stroker motor or one with oil consumption issues) it needs as much cooling surface area as possible. 1qt is minimal, and in road-race applications 1/2 gal is the key (2 -1 qt's in series will have the same result).

As for oil consumption of the amount experianced here there is definatly an issue that just a catch can cannot cure. Lets examine each aspect of where it could be coming from.

With an LSX motor, the intake is not in direct contact with the lifter vally so a crack on the lower side of the intake, or a gasket sucked in cannot be the issue (it is not uncommon to see this with a conventional sbc or bbc as oil splashes on the bottom of the intake and any opening will allow intake vacume to draw oil in with conventional motors) so we can rule the intake out as a possibility.

Rings can be an issue with any 4 stroke motor in 2 different ways. The first being the most common, excessive blow-by will create excess crankcase pressure and "push" oil out the path of least resistance from the crankcase. Usually leaks in seals (mains & valve cover most common) but also out any breathers or in the case of an LSX motor with the crankcase makeup-air being drawn from the top of the throttle body (the hose that runs from the pass valve cover frnt fitting) is one of the first places an LSX motor will have back-flow of engine oil in mist, vapor, or even droplets if bad enough. So if you eliminate that hose and plug both fittings, add a filtered breather to the oil fill cap (or other spot on a valve cover) you will be able to eliminate that as the point of entry. (Blow-by can be caused by exccesive piston to bore clearance, damaged or wore oil rings, oil ring flutter, or incorrect end-gap on the compression & scrapper rings, or an out-of-round bore).

If you eliminate the hose to the TB and you have oil mist/smoke puffing out of the breather then you have nailed it down to lower-end issue. (common old-school diagnostics would be let a car idle for 5 minutes & then rev it a little. If lots of smoke you have oil seal/valve guide issues. If you give it a seires of high rpm revs and each rev it gets more smoke, it is a ring/bore issue. Wind it up while driving and let off and it smokess bad then you could have oil comming from and point as intake vacume is at it's greatest, but we would usually assume rings.)

Now on to heads. The most common source of oil usage in a cyl head is of course the valve seals. Proper stem size for a proper fit, making sure they "snap" on tightly to the guide, and any damage to the seal it'self will allow for oil to be drawn past. Also, the amount of clearance of the valvestem to guide bore is crtical. To tight & the valve will scuff and metal transfer will cause it to stick. To loose, and the stem will wobble or flutter in the guide allowing the seal to elongate & result in oil drawn down. On rare occaisons I have seen to small of valve stem sizes used in a guide...but it is VERY rare. The next problen area...especially with ported heads, is when the rocker studs protrude into the intake runners...and if the threads are not sealed properly during assy, then oil is drawn through into the runners above the intake valves, this is an easy fix with the heads on the motor....just remove the rocker arms & unscrew the studs....use a good sealer & re-assemble to the proper torque spec. Now the hard ingress point to find in heads is when there is a small crack, or more common, a porosity issue where there is NO visable problem or defect...but the cast material is poruse enough to allow oil to be drawn through into the intake runners. The fixe we use for this is a special paint that fills any porosity without shedding, or even a powder-coat of the top side of the head.

In this case being discussed in this thread, I would not jump on Texas Speed as the culprit, but go through all the possibilities I have covered here (and yes, you have covered some already) as it cannot be their fault in any way if it is porosity....only if they assembled the heads with incorrect valve stem to guide tolerance...and as experianced as they are I would highly doubt it.

Please first eliminate any connections to the TB first, and with the PCV hose disconnected from the vacume nipple of the intake and the nipple plugged, see if oil is forced through the PCV hose and post your findings. (use any container to run the hose into) but make SURE the engine has a filtered fresh make-up air source such as a breather in the oil fill cap. That will tell me alot.

And I highly reccomend that everyone read the entire thread on "misconceptions of the PCV system" to fulley understand how it works and why it is essential.

GOOD LUCK! (and feel free to call me directly for advice).

Tracy

MrDavid

iTrader: (11)

Some of you keep thinking that I am "attacking" TSP. I am not. I posted this thread with the intent of getting some advice from some experienced LS builders and others that have experienced the same problem. If you will go back and re-read the first few post, you will see that the finger was actually pointed at the engine builder, and the machine shop first.

Tracy, thank you for the writeup of all the possibilities. I have addressed nearly every one you stated with the catch can yet to be installed.

In the thread in the sponsor feedback forum about he piston ring issue, I did feel that I was lied to. I was told that I couldn't buy an individual ring, and then I found that SDPC sells them. That is old news, and in the past. Please do not throw this thread off topic.

kngkahious

iTrader: (1)

just put your stock heads back on the car. if the problem stop's guess what it was the heads if not . you and tsp can stop pointing finger's and try to resolve the problem in the short block. i've talked to tsp a few times were very helpful and are very well known with f bodies. your builder is not that is why his experience is ?'d.

Shon Herron

iTrader: (25)

I post here to keep in the loop.

Gen414

iTrader: (38)

No offense here, but that way of thinking will get you into trouble every time. ASSUMING that because it's a GM assembled part that it is fine Come on man, you should know better than that! You mean to tell me that when you assemble a head you don't check vavle guide clearance because GM assembled it? I know my heads (L92) are from GM, and my machine shop is gonna check guides. Not attacking you at all, but that statement you made is just plain wrong. Haven't you ever wondered why someone's XXX part will fail at 1000K miles and the exact same XXX part on another car lasts forever? You can't explain it, that's why. And to assume that GM puts a head together and that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM ARE PERFECT is absolutely ridiculous.

I don't think a bad valve seal would allow that much oil either. I do however think and know that a bad guide will and can. Are the odds against all 16 guides being bad? Sure! Can you rule it out? Not at all! You have to look at EVERYTHING.

Everyone has hit all the options that it could be, now it is just a matter of process of elimination and finding it.

I personally think it is not this catch can scenario. You have that much blowby, it is just a band aid fix, and not the root of the problem. Even if he adds the catch can, and "fixes" his problem, it's not really fixing his problem. Good luck, and let us know how it turns out though.

Loadre

iTrader: (5)

Update on this?

kyles2000z

iTrader: (8)

nothig....he hsnt installed the catch can yet. the car is 30-45 from the owner's house.

DrkPhx

iTrader: (15)

I'm sure he's busy, but hopefully he posts an update. I hate to see these type of threads left open-ended without some sort of closure.

kyles2000z

iTrader: (8)

he will, just give the guy time. neither him nor the guy working on the car have had time to fool with it.

MrDavid

iTrader: (11)

Finally picked up the car today and put the catch can on right before the 50 mile drive home. Nothing seemed to change at all. I hope if just needs some more miles before a little improvement is seen.

I got home and dinner was waiting so I didn't even have time to check the catch can to see if it had any oil in it. I will tomorrow though and post another update.

RamAirGod

iTrader: (5)

And i drove behind him 25 out of those 50 miles and that my friends, was a very unpleasant ride for me

MrDavid

iTrader: (11)

New Update:

Now since the new Catch Can, PCV valve, LS6 valley cover, and breathers on each valve cover have been installed I have had the chance to put about 75 miles on the car.

Here are some pics as evidence:

New LS6 Valley Cover and PCV Valve


New Catch Can and Polished Breather on Passenger Side Valve Cover


Drivers Side Valve Cover Breather

MrDavid

iTrader: (11)

Now, after the car was driven 75 miles I removed the catch can expecting to see a lot of oil, since the general consensus was "Its all coming through the PCV system," only to find this:



Maybe one spoonful of oil residew. The car has smoked a tad less, but barely noticable.


Next, I pulled the dipstick and what a surprise, almost a quart low.



Now, does anyone still think all this oil consumption is coming through the PCV system?