Serious Bore Questions for a Proffesional Engine Builder
Serious Bore Questions for a Proffesional Engine Builder Ok i could really use your help guys. I picked up a complete 2003 6.0 and 4l80e trans for $650. I got the heads off on the drivers side and the cross hatch marks are still clearly visible, some light surface rust on #3, wiped off with steel wool.
Now the pass. side is a different story. got the head off and theres a puddle of water in #4 and #6......the rest look like new. The rust isn't pitting on the walls at all, but when i tried to turn it over by hand on the crank snout i can't turn it
. Is it because the trans is still connected? I doubt it.
Sooooo, i got those two cylinders soaking in Kroil just in case. If i cant turn it over after soaking i think i'll have to take the rods loose and tap it out. If the cylinders are not pitted, do you suggest doing a light hone on just those cylinders, or do all 8 and get new stock sized pistons with valve reliefs? Or do you think i could use steel wool and get all the rust off? I DO NOT want to spend the money to do a complete bore when the rest of the cylinders look like new. Do i call the perf. shop i bought it from and try to get them to pay for the hone?
Thanks in advance for all your help guys!
Edit: If i hone all 8, will stock size pistons work, or would i have to go a few .001s bigger?
Now the pass. side is a different story. got the head off and theres a puddle of water in #4 and #6......the rest look like new. The rust isn't pitting on the walls at all, but when i tried to turn it over by hand on the crank snout i can't turn it
. Is it because the trans is still connected? I doubt it. Sooooo, i got those two cylinders soaking in Kroil just in case. If i cant turn it over after soaking i think i'll have to take the rods loose and tap it out. If the cylinders are not pitted, do you suggest doing a light hone on just those cylinders, or do all 8 and get new stock sized pistons with valve reliefs? Or do you think i could use steel wool and get all the rust off? I DO NOT want to spend the money to do a complete bore when the rest of the cylinders look like new. Do i call the perf. shop i bought it from and try to get them to pay for the hone?
Thanks in advance for all your help guys!
Edit: If i hone all 8, will stock size pistons work, or would i have to go a few .001s bigger?
Ok i could really use your help guys. I picked up a complete 2003 6.0 and 4l80e trans for $650. I got the heads off on the drivers side and the cross hatch marks are still clearly visible, some light surface rust on #3, wiped off with steel wool.
Now the pass. side is a different story. got the head off and theres a puddle of water in #4 and #6......the rest look like new. The rust isn't pitting on the walls at all, but when i tried to turn it over by hand on the crank snout i can't turn it. Is it because the trans is still connected? I doubt it.
Sooooo, i got those two cylinders soaking in Kroil just in case. If i cant turn it over after soaking i think i'll have to take the rods loose and tap it out. If the cylinders are not pitted, do you suggest doing a light hone on just those cylinders, or do all 8 and get new stock sized pistons with valve reliefs? Or do you think i could use steel wool and get all the rust off? I DO NOT want to spend the money to do a complete bore when the rest of the cylinders look like new. Do i call the perf. shop i bought it from and try to get them to pay for the hone?
Thanks in advance for all your help guys!
Edit: If i hone all 8, will stock size pistons work, or would i have to go a few .001s bigger?
Now the pass. side is a different story. got the head off and theres a puddle of water in #4 and #6......the rest look like new. The rust isn't pitting on the walls at all, but when i tried to turn it over by hand on the crank snout i can't turn it
. Is it because the trans is still connected? I doubt it. Sooooo, i got those two cylinders soaking in Kroil just in case. If i cant turn it over after soaking i think i'll have to take the rods loose and tap it out. If the cylinders are not pitted, do you suggest doing a light hone on just those cylinders, or do all 8 and get new stock sized pistons with valve reliefs? Or do you think i could use steel wool and get all the rust off? I DO NOT want to spend the money to do a complete bore when the rest of the cylinders look like new. Do i call the perf. shop i bought it from and try to get them to pay for the hone?
Thanks in advance for all your help guys!
Edit: If i hone all 8, will stock size pistons work, or would i have to go a few .001s bigger?
Did you get any kind of a warranty from the shop? If you are not happy with the shop you got the motor from you could go back show/explain what is wrong with it. If they didn't disclose these problems up front i.e "this here is a running motor your getting" they may do the hone for you and mic the cylinders to verify you are within spec. I would to back to the shop tell them the motor had a blown head gasket and there was water in cylinders 4 and 6 and see what they will do for you.
My motto is "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"
Good Luck
Thanks for the info 68.
I got the motor cheap because it was in a front impact crash and the water pump was shot. All the bolt holes are fine though, non of the bolts snapped or anything like that. To add to that, i called him about a month ago and he had a 6.0 for $400, no trans. When i called him last week to buy the motor, it was sold so i bought this one. anywhere from 400-800 is the going rate for them up here.
He said that it "should" be in runnable condition. I'm by no means mad at him, it's not his fault. I will call him though and see what he says. He knows his LSX's, built a 441 that dynoed 750+ hp.
BUT, the head gaskets looked fine? I think the exhaust valves were open on those two cylinders and somehow water got in. He said he had the motor in his shop.
Anyway, i got to get a stand so i can get the pan off and get the pistons out. Can i tap on them with a rubber mallet?
I got the motor cheap because it was in a front impact crash and the water pump was shot. All the bolt holes are fine though, non of the bolts snapped or anything like that. To add to that, i called him about a month ago and he had a 6.0 for $400, no trans. When i called him last week to buy the motor, it was sold so i bought this one. anywhere from 400-800 is the going rate for them up here.
He said that it "should" be in runnable condition. I'm by no means mad at him, it's not his fault. I will call him though and see what he says. He knows his LSX's, built a 441 that dynoed 750+ hp.
BUT, the head gaskets looked fine? I think the exhaust valves were open on those two cylinders and somehow water got in. He said he had the motor in his shop.
Anyway, i got to get a stand so i can get the pan off and get the pistons out. Can i tap on them with a rubber mallet?
TECH Regular
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 437
Likes: 2
From: Cleveland
The cross hatch is quite deep and would still be there at 200k miles.. Just because has them doesn't mean the bore isn't worn several thousandths to begin with. I'd have the machinist bump the hone through it a few times to see if it can clean up at .005 or so. We and other manufacturers have pistons that are available in that size.
Thanks brian. Do most aftermarket pistons like yours need to have aftermarket rods too? I really am going over budget already if i have to hone that much and get new pistons (btw whats the average cost for wisecos that i'd use). I hope to god that the bottom end is good, at most i want to put in bearings rod bolts and maybe main studs. Seeing this rust killed my budget lol.
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Verdad Gallardo Damn oh well. The good news: I got the motor to turn over by threading the pulley bolt into the crank and turning it, didn't take too much. I wiped the crud out then blew the cylinders with air then sprayed with wd-40 so i don't scratch it too bad. I tried steel wool for over half an hour and the #6 cylinder is still ruff, not smooth at all. I'll post a pic of it tonite for youall to check out, but i think a light hone is in order.
It's best to have a shop tear down, hone, and install the rotating assembly right? IDK if i trust myself for that. I'm thinking of giving the shortblock to TPIS (they're a 20 minute drive) and have them do the bottom end
. How much (ballpark figure) would it cost to have them tear down, hone, install new bearings, main studs, rod bolts, and put new OEM pistons in with a flycut? I'd buy things like ported oil pump and install the little things myself.
It's best to have a shop tear down, hone, and install the rotating assembly right? IDK if i trust myself for that. I'm thinking of giving the shortblock to TPIS (they're a 20 minute drive) and have them do the bottom end
. How much (ballpark figure) would it cost to have them tear down, hone, install new bearings, main studs, rod bolts, and put new OEM pistons in with a flycut? I'd buy things like ported oil pump and install the little things myself. 
For as cheap as you are in to the whole package for, i suppose that you could just run it. But, how long do you want it to last? And at what power level? If you just want something to run the crap out of, then what the heck....run it and enjoy it for as long as it lasts, and just keep in the back of your mind that it's days are numbered.
Pull the pistons out, and soak them in some cleaner the rings are probably just a covered in rust and crap as the walls of the cylinders. Go buy, borrow or rent a cylinder hone and give them a quick clean up. That is way better then running them the way they look that wouldn't last no time and your rings would be shot. You may actually find that you have already broke one forcing the motor to roll over. Doing it this way all you have to buy in order to put it back together is a set of rod bearings and possibly some rings, don't look like it would hurt anyways.
i'm with the guy that said run it. the only problem with halfass fixing it at this point is you do not know what you're getting into. all of the high mileage motors i've seen had clearly visible crosshatching. only problem is...can you tell by looking at it that the cylinders are true? i can't. i'd hate to hone and buy new rings on an old block only to see the mfer smoke anyway because it's out of round. hah at least you know the rings on 4 and 6 are good if they were holding water..
fwiw i've freed up gen 1 sbc engines that were locked for years. filled up the bore with diesel fuel, etc, for days on end to get it to run. once they fired up and ran for awhile they were fine. how long they *would've lasted is anyone's guess, i've always seen them die in demo derbies.
fwiw i've freed up gen 1 sbc engines that were locked for years. filled up the bore with diesel fuel, etc, for days on end to get it to run. once they fired up and ran for awhile they were fine. how long they *would've lasted is anyone's guess, i've always seen them die in demo derbies.
Pull the pistons out, and soak them in some cleaner the rings are probably just a covered in rust and crap as the walls of the cylinders. Go buy, borrow or rent a cylinder hone and give them a quick clean up. That is way better then running them the way they look that wouldn't last no time and your rings would be shot. You may actually find that you have already broke one forcing the motor to roll over. Doing it this way all you have to buy in order to put it back together is a set of rod bearings and possibly some rings, don't look like it would hurt anyways.
Hows this:>
Pull out rods and pistons,
do a light hone (one of those you put on the end of a drill with no guide plate?),
use a telescoping gauge to check roundness (if not HORRIBLE i'll leave it), buy new rod bearings and katech rod bolts,
then put in stock size pistons (or do i get some that are a few thousanths bigger to get rid of any slap?) with flat tops and valve reliefs and new rings.
or will taking the pistons off the rods cause any problems?
After 1.5 hours of searching i think i'm still stuck.
So would i want to get a 4.005 bore piston? Can i hone that much with a 3 stone hone and still be true?
the 6.0 block has a 9.230 deck height, i only found pistons for a 9.240 deck and it says "choose rod length accordingly". Can i even buy 4.005 pistons that use the stock 6.125 rod and stock wrist pin?
In short, i need a 4.005 oversized piston that uses the stock 6.125" rod and .945" pin with the stock 3.622" stroke and will have no clearence issues, i also would want a piston that raises compression and has valve reliefs. Is ANY of this possible?
off to do more research...
So would i want to get a 4.005 bore piston? Can i hone that much with a 3 stone hone and still be true?
the 6.0 block has a 9.230 deck height, i only found pistons for a 9.240 deck and it says "choose rod length accordingly". Can i even buy 4.005 pistons that use the stock 6.125 rod and stock wrist pin?
In short, i need a 4.005 oversized piston that uses the stock 6.125" rod and .945" pin with the stock 3.622" stroke and will have no clearence issues, i also would want a piston that raises compression and has valve reliefs. Is ANY of this possible?
off to do more research...
Last edited by 89ROC-Z; Aug 4, 2009 at 11:43 PM.
Is doing it by hand with a drill really that bad? Like i said i'd probably just want to hone enough for a .005 over piston. I'll call around today and see what prices are. You can hone without removeing the crank right?