I spoke my piece. Colin had not contacted me since June. I can post the e-mail chain with his permission. Pressure me? LOL! He mentioned nothing about bringing the car back. When we ran the car there was no sign of anything wrong with the short or lifters. It was a low producer yes, but I have seen that many times before with other suppliers packages. I have also seen other suppliers packages dyno in the 450 rwhp (346CI) range so I can't say it's the dyno. What should I have done here? Sheesh!

 

kinda interesting that a shop of this calliper doesn't know the difference between N2O and No2

 

Mike is not a big N20 user. That setup was actually done by ARE a few years back, Mike went N/A shortly after that and never looked back.

 

Wow, such insite and such a usefull post

BTW, how quick is your car?

 

Not quick enough. ( Sorry couldnt help myself)

 

Bad,

What springs are on the heads and what pressures are they set up with?

A compression test is a good starting point but a leak down should tell the real story.

Given ARE's well known history of multiple issues over the last two years, I'd have CAM do a leak down test while they have the car with the engine warm. This will either clear or condem the ARE short block as having issues. I tend to think the short block is ok, but you never know what you'll find with any of this stuff unless you check. I know of an ARE motor that turned up here in North Carolina with the wrong pistons installed and the compression was way off a good while back.

If CAM finds a leak down issue take it back to Mikey for him to confirm and follow up on his offer posted above.

 

Yep, I would have a replacement waiting here if thats what CAM says it is. But of course I would want to confirm it for myself. The problem is that once someone else touches the motor, your never quite sure where it really stands.

 

 

Good to hear things have worked out.

I have never heard of Mike not trying to make good on anything that went wrong out of his shop.

 

FWIW, we installed the same rotating assy with a set of TEA 5.3's and a TR 230/227/112 cam about a year ago. We tuned it and found a bad fuel pump after 5200 rpms. The customer just put in a pump and I re-tuned the car. It made 420 rwhp with some minor valve float problems. Not the Performance dyno though. We changed the springs per TEA's recommendation and are re-dynoing in about a week.

 

Mikey,

Which springs did the TEA 5.3's have? Which new springs did TEA recommend?

Thanks

Apologies for going off topic for this brief question Bad.

 

Well the thing is Nick, I don't think there is anything wrong from my shop. I would bet the farm on it. The automatic assumption with these posts is that there is an issue with my shop or ARE's rotating because someone assumes it without any proof. You yourself state that I would make good on it. Right there is the assumption. What happens when we find out otherwise? Then these guys just disappear and hide. What if we find out the heads are to blame? Will the title of the post (and the damage it has caused to ARE and myself) change? If there is a problem with the rotating assy then by all means I would take care of it because I sold it but I need to be kept up to date as to whats going on. A simple leak down would tell the story. I'm just amazed that he posted this title without proof.

 

Not sure but is was a double spring with a damper. Larger seat than stock. Comp 978's??? We put Crane doubles in.

 

yeah, of course all of our intelligence levels are based on how fast our cars are...i forgot

 

The only thing wrong with my motor (ARE 436ci) is that the rings got washed during break-in, nothing else is wrong. (This is probably what happened anyway)
My fault, bad tune, whoever or whatever it may have been, it wasn't ARE's fault. My excuse is that I was GREEN when I got into this and wished I knew more about this crap. ARE told me they will still fix my motor (re-ring it) if I ship it to them, under warranty, even though it really wasn't there fault.

Other than that, the motor is BAD-TO-THE-BONE, smooth as silk, quiet (as far as engine noise goes) and strong as *****.

We'll see whats its capable of soon enough, it'll be good as new before the end of January.

 

Chris ARE 360- I don't know how to edit the title of the post- but feel free to rename it as you see fit. I have no problem with that.

Mike- I am not looking to flame anybody. I have just posted the facts, as best I understand them, and my opinions which may or may not be correct. I am not going to disappear, either- I will have a leakdown test done and post the results. The JPR H&C package made 422 RWHP with the stock shortblock and a bad tune- this is a FACT that is undisputable. The only changes were the ARE shortblock and the tune, so they seemed like the most likely suspects. If stock lifters are reused, then ARE and Rapid are not to blame- assuming the lifters are the problem. Do you think the lifters could have been bad when you installed and tuned the engine? If so, that would explain the low dyno numbers. Maybe they went bad since then- I did lose another 22 RWHP since my previous dyno up there. JPR consistently has made over 400 RWHP with his stage 1 packages- I got 390 out of a stage 2. So I have every right to be upset. I do not have the money for a new heads and cam package right now, although I do appreciate the offer. I will have a leakdown test done and I am going to have the heads flowed independently. I will post all the results on here, but it will be after January 1- that is the soonest CAM can do it. I probably should have brought the car back to you, Mike, but I cannot afford to keep taking time off work for expensive road trips to have my car worked on. Dealing with a local shop may cost me the parts and labor, but I incur no travel expenses nor missed time from work which also equals lost pay. Surely you can understand that perspective.

Look, guys- I'm not trying to defame anyone's good name or ruin anybody's reputation, but JPR/ARE/Rapid are all professionals, so shouldn't SOMEONE be held accountable when an engine doesn't perform? I will get to the bottom of this, I promise that much.

Mike- feel free to post any and all e-mails.

 

I didn't bring the car back to Rapid because I didn't know for sure there was a problem. I never said Mike did not stand behind his work- I explained my reasons for taking it to a local tuner. My tuner suspected valvetrain issues, which is why I had him check the pushrods, install the Crane duals and the Yella Terras. This is when the lifter problem appeared- maybe the lifters were already bad, only replacing them and redynoing will tell us for sure.

I only pointed the finger at the ARE 346 because I was told it came with lifters. This information was incorrect; for which I have apologized.

I still say something was WRONG with this combination from day one- whether it was the lifters, the heads, the rotating assembly, whatever- it didn't perform as it should have.


I still don't buy 30 RWHP variance between dynos, sorry. Yes, Mike, I was present for the dyno at JD's where it pulled 422. Who knows? Maybe the Performance Specialties dyno is more accurate- my first pull at CAM was 370 RWHP- closer to the Performance Specialties numbers than JD's numbers.

With so much conflicting information coming from different sources, how is the customer supposed to know what to believe? I don't profess to be an expert about this stuff- I am still learning as I go.

 

Well I hope for your sake there is a lifter problem but I seriously doubt it. That would show up on the dyno curve as a dip. What are you going to do when the leak down tests ok? Remember to do it with the engine warm and pistons at TDC.

Your title to the post suggests ARE is at fault when you have just assumed that based on what you have (send me your first dyno graph please). And then you say I ignored the low numbers which is totally false. Like I said, I answered every e-mail and returned every phone call. I just had no answer for you as I have to base my referrence to the Performance dyno where heads from this and other shops have underperformed before. Underperformed based on others results at other dynos.

If the leak down fails then you should call me and I would have a new rotating waiting and we could have done the swap over a weekend like last time. Do I think it will fail? No. I've done too many of those and if you PM or call me, I'll send you referrences.

Bottom line Colin, is that this post is slanderous and already has 3000+ views. What if it's something with the heads? You've already damaged ARE and myself and I personally take that very seriously.

 

Reading these post make me nervous about ever buying a engine when mine goes out. I hope there is some simple explaination to solve this problem, for both sides. Good luck to both of you.

 

I think the leakdown test will be fine, too. But I don't think this post is "slanderous"- that's too strong of a word. I may have come off a little harsh, but between JPR and Rapid I've got well over 10K in this engine. Maybe JPR's heads are to blame, I will find out. The Thunder cam is a proven performer- in fact, some people have dynoed higher than me with STOCK HEADS and the Thunder cam. That is why I cannot understand anyone saying these dyno numbers are normal- plus the fact I had previously dynoed 32 RWHP higher. If someone reads this thread all the way through, they will get the whole story and make their own conclusions. If none of this reflects badly on you or ARE, why would it be damaging?

I have talked to you about my problems, Mike. I have talked to Joe Prince. You seem to be implying the problems lie in the heads. Joe believes the problem lies in the shortblock. I have gotten no real answers, just finger-pointing in different directions. Neither of you have offered me any solutions- except spending more money which I can't do right now.

Like I said above, I will get to the bottom of this and post my findings. As they say, "The truth will set you free."

If this thread is truly slanderous, I'm sure the moderators will delete it if you ask them to. I don't think it is slander, though.

Here is the bottom line: I spent alot of money with two sponsors of this board: Rapid and JPR. It hasn't turned out the way it should have. I am not satisfied, and neither sponsor has offered me any solutions I find acceptable. Neither feel that they are to blame for my problems, nor did either seem particularly concerned about making me happy. Mike, you do this stuff for a living. Most of the guys on the board do this stuff with their cars as a hobby, and a hobby should be fun. THIS HAS NOT BEEN FUN FOR ME. Take that FWIW. Maybe its time for me to get out.