King Nothing

iTrader: (9)

^honestly because my build is pretty hush hush till i get the engine in my garage then i'll release the info. thanks predatorZ

Paint_It_Black

iTrader: (1)

Just thought we could get some actual "tech" out there instead of "run what I run it rocks" while I try to save you from making a mistake.

King Nothing

iTrader: (9)

i definitely need a certain cam to run this set-up

Titanws6

iTrader: (35)

If you're such a hater, why do you give a **** who he talks to about cam spec's. Seriously I think you're just posting to get your count up.

To the OP, just like everyone says, just find a cam thats right for you and what you want/need. I wanted a street cam, not a track cam. I wanted the full benefits of the cam everyday, not just the times it ever sees a track. Thats why I went with the El Torro, used alot of "stock" GM parts to put togther a nice package to compliment the cam and vice versa. I had Thunder Racing grind the cam for me, had it in less than 2 weeks. You can see by my graph the TQ curve is pretty consistent and the cam does not fall on its face (like others will want you to believe). This was all done with a Street Tune as well, loaded, not just for bragging rights with dyno numbers/tune.

PREDATOR-Z

Your chivalry bring a moist feeling to my eye. You are too much PIB, stop it.

Paint_It_Black

iTrader: (1)

So I'm a hater because I don't stroke the egos of the self proclaimed guru's over here? I'm trying to HELP people. and with the kind of people that 90% of the people who post here are, it means going against popular opinion.. a lot! Because there is a lot of misinformation here accepted as fact because no one thinks for themselves and asks questions or challenges sponsors. (of course don't go too far, you'll get banned, as many have for being too knowledgeable and vocal about it).

When I have moderators pm'ing me, thanking me for posting, I think I'll stick around a while. In the online world, this site is junior high when it comes to getting knowledge. It's not what it used to be. I'm trying to help fix that, one post at a time.

King Nothing

iTrader: (9)

i totally agree with you, sad to say if your not popular or known on this site you don't get much help from anyone. one main reason i'll check out any thread and try to help out anyway i can, better to help out than just glance at it and say i don't know him so i wont help him

SSmoken

iTrader: (26)

so what would be a guesstimate of an et with this cam, basic boltons, stock heads, and full weight???

SOMbitch

iTrader: (8)

You have the El Torro so you tell us

chrs1313

iTrader: (24)

There is that anywhere...look at hardcore everyone cupping the ***** of Bret an he gets banned and has still yet to show/prove his 243 heads are worth $3500...That is why I went with the used TFS 215s for 1400...

let me know when you get that 8k rpm solid roller 347 going with a single plane...I would love to see the results...

Paint_It_Black

iTrader: (1)

Went a different route, but it will be done in a month. Parts are on the way. Just a typical hydraulic spinning 7200. I want it to be typical of the packages I'm working on to release to the public later this year. The super vic wasn't typical.

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Show me a combination that makes good power with a reverse pattern cam and I will show you the same combo make 5-10 more peak and carry better past peak with a 4-6 degree forward split. Ive done alot of testing on the dyno (cam swaps) with LS engines playing with various exhaust lobes on the same size intake lobe.

Bottom line, the smaller the exhaust lobe the better the low end numbers look and the worse the top....its a trade off plain and simple. Camshafts are always trade-off's....there is no magic....its all about getting the most and giving up the least for a particular combination's needs.

The only heads I spec even a single pattern cam with is my ported 205's which have an explosive 305 CFM intake port and a 240-245 CFM exhaust when Im done with the porting work (with low lift exhaust figures I assure you most heads don't have....don't forget Ive seen most of whats out there by now). Even with my ported 205's sporting an 80% E/I ratio and I'm still only going with a single pattern (sometimes a 2' forward split).

Most....and I mean 95+ percent of the LS applications out there will run better overall with a forward split cam...and some need as much as 8 degrees to be reasonably effective because alot of heads I see (ported stockers especially) even with decent intake ports have very weak exhaust flow and some of the after market heads are just so-so on the exhaust side as well.

JMO and Im sure some will agree and others will disagree

You guys that have been around for a few years and have followed my various builds and "recipes" know I never just shoot for the big number....I'm always looking for the whole curve to be explosive, but take note I have never spec'ed a single one with a reverse pattern cam because I feel its a bad trade....too much top end loss for too little bottom end gain

-Tony

TXZ28LS1

iTrader: (5)

tony, obviously one of the most respected guys on this site, by any chance would you happen to have any dyno results with your AFR 205 with a reverse split by any chance? i only know 1 guy named blewbyouss who runs AFR 205 right out the box and the TR 230/224 cam and loves that setup. my car is just a street car. Never will see the track, or set records. just something fun to play with. I run the X1 and would love to see how this cam would work with some heads. the X1 was MTI most popular daily driver, street cam out of all there cams for a reason and along with the TR 230/224 being Thunder racings most popular cam next to the 224/224.

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Its in the archives of Westech's engine dyno back in 04' and 05' when I was doing alot more cam experimenting with the AFR heads.

A 224/224 was worth 4 HP over a 224/220.....a 224/228 was worth four more over a 224/224 and obviously eight more over a 224/220....BUT....the larger 224/228 did give up some low end TQ to the reverse cam (and the single), but I didnt care about small losses under 4000 RPM's.

There is a reason the 224/228 cam became known as the Tony Mamo cam.....had either of the other two worked out better (the single or the reverse), they would have been known as the Mamo cam today. Like I said in my previous post....its all about compromises when dealing with camshafts, and in my opinion, the small loss of torque on the bottom was a worthy trade for 8 more peak and 10-12 past peak where the engine carried better with the additional exhaust timing to clear out the cylinder when it has so little time to do so (at higher RPM's).

Sorry I don't have the dyno curves handy....but hopefully I'm conveying enough info for you guys to get a better feel.

If you don't have a cylinder head with close to an 80% E/I ratio, your really barking up the wrong tree with a reverse split....the engine is going to nose over quickly at higher RPM and higher RPM is just what you need for a small engine to produce horsepower....its primarily a function of RPM and how well you can design the engine to hang on based on the parts you are selecting.

-Tony

Paint_It_Black

iTrader: (1)

Thank you Tony

PREDATOR-Z

Hi Tony,

You said it yourself, it is a tug of war. I never said that RS cams will make more power, but it can make more average power under the curve. One has to get out of the box designing RS cams.
Here is an exemple of a well matched combo
230/228 110-1 LSA and 243 CNC stock valves

Notice the trq output of this combo and the 3k rpm at which it does it. Yes you could squeese a few more ponies on the high end, but I'm sure you'll eat away at your trq curve in the process.

These are the results I've been squeezing out of my RS cams and as much as one would like to deny it, the fact remains that they do make pretty impressive power undercurve, they are easier to tune as well (less reversion).
It is all in the valve events, and of course matching components as well.

Myths I would like to erase:
1- They do not carry well: Sure they do, it is in the valve events.

King Nothing

iTrader: (9)

^holy ****

LTX355

iTrader: (15)

does this hold true for different intake set ups? As with say a stock intake actually being a restriction rather then a cylinder head. It seems that was the original intention of a reverse split.

SSmoken

iTrader: (26)

i still havent got my car tuned. one day off work a week and two classes that day. finding time is hard.

Paint_It_Black

iTrader: (1)

Then why don't NASCAR engines with restrictor plate intakes/single carbs and open exhaust run reverse splits? (They don't!) Think about it. Reverse splits were really a band-aid cam to give people a boost in "normal" driving rpm's.

I'll concede this.. the more "expert" opinions you get, the more cam selections you'll have, but there are some rules of thumb. Spend a few days reading over at speedtalk.com and you'll see what I mean.