M6 car with MS3 cam...lacking power?
Video definitely looks a little slow. For comparison purposes here is my Patriot 225/229 .580/.590 114.. PAC 1218 springs (rated to .600 lift, so only .010 clearance) Stock 105k clutch (getting changed soon), stock gears, stock MAF, stock TB & LS6 intake, FTP lid, longtubes, cutout, and tune..
I think even with stock gears, yours should definitely be pulling harder up top, but even my smaller cam is getting pulled to about 64-6500 which yours should be pulled to MINIMUM
You can see how mine rows through the gears:
View Video on FQuick
I think even with stock gears, yours should definitely be pulling harder up top, but even my smaller cam is getting pulled to about 64-6500 which yours should be pulled to MINIMUM
You can see how mine rows through the gears:
View Video on FQuick Last edited by HoLLo; Aug 30, 2010 at 10:33 PM.
I had the same setup in my old TA w/3.42 n 3.90 gears-with and without a tune and it still pulled harder with the MS3, the tune/timing seems off and at 1st glance from the video it seems ur clutch is weak, reminds me of mine b4 my clutch swap. Not a internet mechanic like half the peope on here, just my honest opinion, goodluck bro
Hey, my bet was that I could do it while rolling, clutch dump or not 
. That was the whole point, you said it couldnt be done (didnt specify how
). No way in hell it spins them just rolling on a dry road.
Adjust the rev limiter to a higher rpm, which is where your cam shines. A set of heads and gears would really wake it up too.
. That was the whole point, you said it couldnt be done (didnt specify how). No way in hell it spins them just rolling on a dry road.Adjust the rev limiter to a higher rpm, which is where your cam shines. A set of heads and gears would really wake it up too.
i put down 415rwhp and with some 275 nitto 555r's i had 3.73's i couldnt spin from a 1st gear roll couldnt even bark 2nd i dont think my car is slow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYSB4u8txJc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYSB4u8txJc
So I recently added a tunnel mounted torque arm and it greatly reduced the amount of wheel spin, so did I lose power? Sure, the front end comes up and the car accelerates, but I don't get nearly the wheelspin I did before, so my car must be down on power according to the logic in this post. I have no other data to support these claims except now I can't do a burnout in second gear so my car must be slow.
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Verdad Gallardo So I recently added a tunnel mounted torque arm and it greatly reduced the amount of wheel spin, so did I lose power? Sure, the front end comes up and the car accelerates, but I don't get nearly the wheelspin I did before, so my car must be down on power according to the logic in this post. I have no other data to support these claims except now I can't do a burnout in second gear so my car must be slow.
Video definitely looks a little slow. For comparison purposes here is my Patriot 225/229 .580/.590 114.. PAC 1218 springs (rated to .600 lift, so only .010 clearance) Stock 105k clutch (getting changed soon), stock gears, stock MAF, stock TB & LS6 intake, FTP lid, longtubes, cutout, and tune..
He isn't talking about drag racing, idk why everyone is being sarcastic. If you have street tires and stock suspension on street with a decent amount of power, you should spin very easily. Comparing a car with drag radials or slicks at the track to what he's talking about is moronic.
Everyone is being sarcastic because he's trying to diagnose his car by how much or little he's spinning his tires. That's not data, that doesn't give us a clue of how much or little power he's making.
He had the car tuned, and if the tuner didn't mention anything about the car being hurt, then he needs to get it on a dyno to see what it makes power wise, or down a track to see what times it runs. Evaluating how much power he's making by how much he's spinning the tires is just rediculous. That's even worse that the butt-meter.
My friend ran the same setup when he first got his 99 camaro, he made 440whp with the MS3 cam, pacesetter longtubes and patriot heads.
You car should have enough power to spin the tires. The first thing I noticed is you COMP 918 springs. I bet your floating valve. My buddy had those on his LT1 with a smaller cam then the MS3 and floated the valves, swapped to PAC springs and picked up 70WHP!!
Id say pick up some patroit Golds. My friends been running his for 4 years!
Good luck man!
I think its the springs...
Jay
You car should have enough power to spin the tires. The first thing I noticed is you COMP 918 springs. I bet your floating valve. My buddy had those on his LT1 with a smaller cam then the MS3 and floated the valves, swapped to PAC springs and picked up 70WHP!!
Id say pick up some patroit Golds. My friends been running his for 4 years!
Good luck man!
I think its the springs...
Jay
No, they were closed for the labor day weekend and the other one nearby was holding some competition that weekend. All I want is to do test and tune so I figured I will try again maybe this coming weekend or the next (depending on the track schedule mostly). 
If you're looking to talk **** and be a smart *** then why don't you find some other thread to do that in? I'm not an idiot. I realize that the ability to spin the tires isn't the end-all be-all to measuring horsepower, but if the car is making the power it is supposed to with that cam then it should spin the tires. I'm not sure what is hard to understand here. I even posted the sluggish acceleration video. The car is a turd and I am just looking for answers...not some smart *** comment in regards to "measuring horsepower".
Thank you...
Thank you very much for the information man. This is exactly what I was looking for. I realize others have mentioned the valves before this point but this point really hit home. I still plan on upgrading the springs as soon as I get some bills paid off...hopefully within a month or two.
As for springs, what do ya'll recommend? I was looking at the Precision Race Component EHT .675" Spring Kit but the Patriot Golds are cheaper (checked into them per Jay's recommendation).
http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...=1013&catid=48
http://www.jegs.com/i/Patriot%20Perf...0002/-1?CT=999
So I recently added a tunnel mounted torque arm and it greatly reduced the amount of wheel spin, so did I lose power? Sure, the front end comes up and the car accelerates, but I don't get nearly the wheelspin I did before, so my car must be down on power according to the logic in this post. I have no other data to support these claims except now I can't do a burnout in second gear so my car must be slow.
He isn't talking about drag racing, idk why everyone is being sarcastic. If you have street tires and stock suspension on street with a decent amount of power, you should spin very easily. Comparing a car with drag radials or slicks at the track to what he's talking about is moronic.
My friend ran the same setup when he first got his 99 camaro, he made 440whp with the MS3 cam, pacesetter longtubes and patriot heads.
You car should have enough power to spin the tires. The first thing I noticed is you COMP 918 springs. I bet your floating valve. My buddy had those on his LT1 with a smaller cam then the MS3 and floated the valves, swapped to PAC springs and picked up 70WHP!!
Id say pick up some patroit Golds. My friends been running his for 4 years!
Good luck man!
I think its the springs...
Jay
You car should have enough power to spin the tires. The first thing I noticed is you COMP 918 springs. I bet your floating valve. My buddy had those on his LT1 with a smaller cam then the MS3 and floated the valves, swapped to PAC springs and picked up 70WHP!!
Id say pick up some patroit Golds. My friends been running his for 4 years!
Good luck man!
I think its the springs...
Jay
As for springs, what do ya'll recommend? I was looking at the Precision Race Component EHT .675" Spring Kit but the Patriot Golds are cheaper (checked into them per Jay's recommendation).
http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...=1013&catid=48
http://www.jegs.com/i/Patriot%20Perf...0002/-1?CT=999
Ok my .02. I have the MS3 with PRC LS6 2.5 heads. FAST 92/92(PORTED) 1 7/8 kooks and duals 411s six speed fairly new clutch and full suspension. I don't remember the dyno numbers. And my tires don't spun when shifting. Have You not thought since the car is already accelerating on a good surface it wont. I've recently went with better heads and a different camso maybe I should spun now when shifting
I still say patriot gold kit, I also run them on my Turbo LS motor that is making at least 600+whp on 11psi.
Its a cheap kit and has everything u need including valve seals.
Jay
Its a cheap kit and has everything u need including valve seals.
Jay
PRC or Patriots are both good, I run prcs, but many people run patriots. They are both a well designed spring meant to hold. And im not sure how some of you guys don't spin from a roll, some of you who are saying your not spinning when shifting or just in gear and floor it on street tires amazes me because no matter what street tire I use, I spin horribly and im not making 500+rwhp here or some huge amount. 1st gear any rpm if I floor it it just breaks loose and leaves marks, even with bfg gforce tires or eagle f1's. And HOW you guys don't spin when going into gears amazes me because 2nd spins HORRIBLY and 3rd 4th and 5th chirp damn good for me.. I don't power shift either this is normal shifting quick.
Hell... when I was bone stock I would chirp 2nd and 3rd.
Hell... when I was bone stock I would chirp 2nd and 3rd.
Can I spin 2nd, 3th and even 4th, yes, but what I was trying to say is before you start throwing parts at the car, make an accurate diagnosis of what's really wrong first. There could be absolutely nothing wrong with his car and he's going to toss money at chasing something that's not broken. Could he be getting valve float? Sure. But that's usually seen above 5500 rpm and I doubt many people are spinning tires that high because you're on the backside of the torque curve.
All I was trying to stress is don't make a diagnosis on the health of a car based simply on a feeling or how much or little traction you're getting. Get it on a dyno and see what the torque curve looks like.
All I was trying to stress is don't make a diagnosis on the health of a car based simply on a feeling or how much or little traction you're getting. Get it on a dyno and see what the torque curve looks like.
I don't spin cause of weight transfer. I've been thru About four different suspension configurations. I don't know what I could of run on my last setup cause of multiple parts breakage. Still on my mind to see what the MS3 will do with 220 TFs running 11.3 compression. But going milder with a 226/234 cam. I do like this cam and its explosive topend. But DD isn't fun.
