Chesty for President

iTrader: (2)

I want "need" to replace my valve springs. I have the Patriot Gold spring kit that came from Thunder Racing. Do i HAVE to buy the entire kit or can i reuse the spacers, retainers, keepers and locks. They all looked perfect when i inspected them last. There is a little bit of noise coming form the drivers side valve cover area but everything looks fine there also. The springs have about 12,000 miles on them with the TRex cam so im gonna swap them before i sell the car. Im trying to buy the springs alone if i dont need to spend all the extra cash on the "KIT". Any advice is welcomed and if any sponsers on here sell them ill be back in the states in 3 weeks to order them. Thanks

PREDATOR-Z

You can reuse anything provided they look OK upon inspection. I would replace the locks.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

I agree with Z, however, since the locks aren't a wearable item I dont think they have to be replaced. They are likely pretty cheap so it definitely wouldn't hurt though.

technicalninja

iTrader: (1)

Why the locks PREDATOR Z?
Just as added insurance or is there a problem with the stock locks?
Do you use a specific brand?
I too will be changing springs shortly and would really appreciate your insight.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Essentially the lock is the ONLY thing keeping the spring in place and keeping the valve out of your cylinder. Because they are cheap and do such an important job, it makes sense. I would replace them with the same kind/brand that came off, likely the ones that came with the springs/retainers when they were new.

technicalninja

iTrader: (1)

Yep 01ssreda4, I understand what the locks do, however I agree with your first statement regarding the locks being a non-wearing item (or only minimal wear).
If the original locks had not been subjected to overstressing or damage and I was reinstalling with the same retainer on the same valve I would tend to re-use the originals before replacing with un-proven replacements. Unless there is a "known" deficiency of which I am unaware of at this time. This was the reason for my post.
Mileage, stress level, and age might cause me to replace them but if I was to that point I would be replacing more than just the locks.
I would always try match brands (retainers/locks) if possible.

After re-reading the original post I have a question for Chesty. Why do you "need" to replace the springs before you sell the car? Are you trying to clear up your noise issue?
Your post makes it sound like you already have the full Patriot kit installed.
Do you think they are at the end of their service life after only 12K on them?
Does that cam degrade those valvesprings that quickly?
If I was swapping back to stock (for selling) I'd want to keep all of my aftermarket stuff and put all original pieces back on. Used OEM stuff in good condition would be fine IMO.

My answer to the original question: As long as the replacement valve spring properly matches the upper and lower registers in retainer/spring seat and has the proper specs for the cam/valves you should be able to replace just the springs alone and re-use your other hardware.

In 30 years of messing around with cars I've never seen a failure regarding keepers failing due to age/material degradation. I have seen complete engine losses due to keepers being installed improperly but not to the keepers/locks failing themselves. I'm new the the LS1 world but not to wrenching in general. Maybe I'm overlooking the obvious.

Chesty for President

iTrader: (2)

technicalninja i want "need" to replace the springs due to the miles thats on

them and a sewing maching sound coming form the drivers side. I was

getting the p0030 code (i think thats it i havent seen the car in 6 months) if

someone buys the car then i want it to be sound and solid with no issues.

Ive heard the TRex cams eat up springs so with throwing that code and

the miles on the springs its time to change them and if not then ill still change them

and dig a little deeper until i find whats causing the noise. its not loud at all

you can barely hear it, no ticking or tapping or knocking at all just a very

light sewing machine sound (is that normal). My family is growing so something has to go LOL

my lil project car seems to be the first thing on the chopping block.

PREDATOR-Z

The locks are a wearable item (granted at slow rate). They have to be kept in the order they came off because they are subject to a definite print on them from locking pressures.
Will reusing locks work? Probably yes, but that doesn't mean it is standard practice or the right one.

technicalninja

iTrader: (1)

OK I understand your reasons better now. Yes you should be able to reuse all your hardware if your replacing the original Patriot springs with new Patriot springs. No problems at all as long as Patriot hasn't changed the design (they will be able to tell you). I'm not so sure the new springs will help your noise but I've been wrong before. Changing out highly stressed valve springs on a preventative maintenance schedule is not a bad idea IMO.

Your code p0030 is an O2 sensor code isn't it? I'm surprised that weakening valve springs might throw this code.

I'd better isolate the noise before ripping into it. Get a set of automotive stethoscopes. You will be surprised at what you'll be able to hear.
I'd lean towards rocker arms or lifters as a source of noise before the springs. Unless the spring has obviously failed (ie it's broken) they shouldn't make any noise at all. The more common effect of a weakening valve spring is reduced upper rpm power. The weak spring cannot control the valve at high speed causing seat bounce and sort of a "soft" miss. This is very hard to feel. Usually shows up as slower ETs. A good machine shop should be able to test your springs (off the head) but if it's a PM thing that doesn't really matter. It's also damn difficult to pull all 16 in car and retain all the valves.

Oh by the way, THANK YOU for serving our country, hope you have a safe trip back. I'd hate missing the holidays with my family.

And lastly my family has grown up and are beginning to MOVE OUT. This has made it possible for me to resume work on my project cars. You will be stunned at how fast 20 years can pass when your my age.

Good luck! Let me know if the springs solve your noise please.

slt200mph

iTrader: (42)

If you replace the springs with the same spring you can reuse your valve train hardware but as PreditorZ said the locks are a wearable part and they are very inexpensive and should be replaced. Semper Fidelis!

technicalninja

iTrader: (1)

After lurking in other threads I have a prime candidate for your noise.

I'd check out the rocker arms pretty closely.
Others have described the "sewing machine noise" just before they find rocker arm needle bearings on the magnetic drain plug.
Are you running stock rocker arms?

Chesty for President

iTrader: (2)

yes sir still running the stock rockers i did see that also in another thread about the guy finding those small needle bearings on his drain plug. I changed my oil right beofre i left and didnt see anything then but ill drive it straight to the hobby shop and change it when i get back and remove and inspect the rockers more closely, then this thing is going up for sale. Ive never even gotten the chance to take it to the track hell it only goes a mile to work and home thats it lol, never gets over 35 more than twice a month. im not gonna say waisted money but damn. thanks for the reply brother and thanks for the thanks of serving i love being a Marine just haye being away from my family. if you have any suggestions please throw them at me i appretiate it

technicalninja

iTrader: (1)

Biggest suggestion I have is to KEEP your car if you can find a way!
Looks like you've done a bunch of stuff already. In a few years or so you will look back and say "man I was stupid, I shouldn't have sold that car".
When I was born my father, an Airforce officer, sold his "hot rod" for the "growing family".
It was a 1957 283 FI T10 4 speed Corvette. Even worse it was one of the factory optioned cars for club racing. All the high performace stuff was included. The only "luxury" option it had was a heater.
At 70 years old he stills believes it was his biggest car sales mistake.
That car would be worth BIG money today as well.
Hope this helps
Rick

3zman

Chesty - I had noise on the driver side valve cover also and found that one of my HS rockers was hitting against inside of the valve cover at the boss for the coil rack (near cyl #5). Don't know if this applies to your situation - it bugged me for quite some time. It wasn't enough to cause great concern but it went beyond the normal LS sewing machine noise.

Are the Patriot Gold springs larger in diameter than what you are currently running? Will the heads require machining of the spring seats?

garygnu

when you replace the springs check the rocker arms for bearing looseness.