Afr 205 Dyno Results
03-06-2004, 01:32 AM
#1
Afr 205 Dyno Results Hello Everyone...
I guess this would be the post many of us have been waiting for (myself included!).
As I have previously mentioned, AFR had scheduled some dyno time for the month of March. I have some preliminary results from the last four days of testing that should shed some light on the performance potential of our high velocity 205's. Essentially, the results I can share with you this evening are based on gains versus a bone stock LS1 engine fitted with a Z06 intake manifold.
With just the addition of the AFR heads and no other changes, we saw a "peak to peak" gain of 35-38 HP (depending on which dyno run you wanted to compare) and a gain of over 50 HP after peak, which occured around 5800 or so. The 50 HP gain was seen in the 6400-6500 range where the stock head just couldn't effectively fill the cylinder head any more.
We also spent quite a bit of time developing a package that would provide big improvements in HP and torque while still retaining enough manners to be used potentially as a daily driver. We will be offering this package thru AFR if anyone is interested. More of these packages will be developed in the future and in conjunction with our larger LS cylinder heads as well.
With a custom ground cam (224/228 w/ a 114 LSA), a 78 mm FAST intake manifold and a ported 78 mm throttle body, this AFR headed combination made exactly 102 additional HP (also peak to peak) and over 130 additional HP in the higher RPM range (6500-6800) when compared to stock with the LS6 intake. The power and torque curve was extremely flat and even at 6800 the engine was still producing within 10 HP of its peak. I would easily shift at 7000 RPM with this set-up and plan to install this very combination in my own C5 very shortly. With such conservative cam timing, the way this combination makes power upstairs is very impressive. Better news is that even as low as 2000 RPM's, there was no loss of power compared to the stock cammed engine with obviously alot less duration. By 2500 RPM's the 224 AFR combination was starting to pull away and never looks back and as early as 5000 RPM's there is already almost a 50 HP and TQ advantage. The engine idled with a slight lope and made almost 16" of vacuum as well at only 750 RPM's. I think this combination would be great street/strip package for anyone that isn't looking for totally smooth or totally radical. My guess is when I hit the wheel dyno sometime early next month, I hope to see somewhere in the mid 400's at the wheel with a very streetable and powerful combination. Also, with some good tuning, I'm hoping slightly higher gains might be possible.
Also, just to clarify, the engine was tested on a SuperFlow dyno with the addition of long tube headers (1.75' primaries) and a flowmaster 3" exhaust. (The figures quoted are not with open headers). By the way,the reason I am not quoting actual power figures from testing is simply because all dyno's are different and can provide you with different results....We have nothing to hide as the actual figures are impressive, however what we feel is better information is the net differences observed.
By the way, if you omit the throttle body and FAST intake, you can subtract about 15 HP from the numbers I quoted above which would still add almost 90 HP peak to peak with just the H/C install.
It's been a long week with like five 16 hour days in a row swapping parts on the dyno and I'm SHOT and I need some sleep. It was certainly exciting at times, but also a "thrash" and alot of hard work. Will update everyone sometime next week with information pertaining to the 2nd wave of test castings we just recieved and whether or not we will begin accepting deposits.
Till then,
Regards to all,
Tony Mamo
PS The results from the cammed engine is representative of that particular package....A more aggressive cam would have obviously shown even stronger results with a subsequent loss of very low RPM power. I believe it's a great package many of us could live with, but there are a ton of other combinations as well. The information was mainly to give everyone an idea of the potential power the AFR 205's could help generate.
I guess this would be the post many of us have been waiting for (myself included!).
As I have previously mentioned, AFR had scheduled some dyno time for the month of March. I have some preliminary results from the last four days of testing that should shed some light on the performance potential of our high velocity 205's. Essentially, the results I can share with you this evening are based on gains versus a bone stock LS1 engine fitted with a Z06 intake manifold.
With just the addition of the AFR heads and no other changes, we saw a "peak to peak" gain of 35-38 HP (depending on which dyno run you wanted to compare) and a gain of over 50 HP after peak, which occured around 5800 or so. The 50 HP gain was seen in the 6400-6500 range where the stock head just couldn't effectively fill the cylinder head any more.
We also spent quite a bit of time developing a package that would provide big improvements in HP and torque while still retaining enough manners to be used potentially as a daily driver. We will be offering this package thru AFR if anyone is interested. More of these packages will be developed in the future and in conjunction with our larger LS cylinder heads as well.
With a custom ground cam (224/228 w/ a 114 LSA), a 78 mm FAST intake manifold and a ported 78 mm throttle body, this AFR headed combination made exactly 102 additional HP (also peak to peak) and over 130 additional HP in the higher RPM range (6500-6800) when compared to stock with the LS6 intake. The power and torque curve was extremely flat and even at 6800 the engine was still producing within 10 HP of its peak. I would easily shift at 7000 RPM with this set-up and plan to install this very combination in my own C5 very shortly. With such conservative cam timing, the way this combination makes power upstairs is very impressive. Better news is that even as low as 2000 RPM's, there was no loss of power compared to the stock cammed engine with obviously alot less duration. By 2500 RPM's the 224 AFR combination was starting to pull away and never looks back and as early as 5000 RPM's there is already almost a 50 HP and TQ advantage. The engine idled with a slight lope and made almost 16" of vacuum as well at only 750 RPM's. I think this combination would be great street/strip package for anyone that isn't looking for totally smooth or totally radical. My guess is when I hit the wheel dyno sometime early next month, I hope to see somewhere in the mid 400's at the wheel with a very streetable and powerful combination. Also, with some good tuning, I'm hoping slightly higher gains might be possible.
Also, just to clarify, the engine was tested on a SuperFlow dyno with the addition of long tube headers (1.75' primaries) and a flowmaster 3" exhaust. (The figures quoted are not with open headers). By the way,the reason I am not quoting actual power figures from testing is simply because all dyno's are different and can provide you with different results....We have nothing to hide as the actual figures are impressive, however what we feel is better information is the net differences observed.
By the way, if you omit the throttle body and FAST intake, you can subtract about 15 HP from the numbers I quoted above which would still add almost 90 HP peak to peak with just the H/C install.
It's been a long week with like five 16 hour days in a row swapping parts on the dyno and I'm SHOT and I need some sleep. It was certainly exciting at times, but also a "thrash" and alot of hard work. Will update everyone sometime next week with information pertaining to the 2nd wave of test castings we just recieved and whether or not we will begin accepting deposits.
Till then,
Regards to all,
Tony Mamo
PS The results from the cammed engine is representative of that particular package....A more aggressive cam would have obviously shown even stronger results with a subsequent loss of very low RPM power. I believe it's a great package many of us could live with, but there are a ton of other combinations as well. The information was mainly to give everyone an idea of the potential power the AFR 205's could help generate.
03-06-2004, 01:56 AM
#2
TECH Addict
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: St Louis, MO
Posts: 2,551
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just to clarify, this was an engine dyno, not a chassis dyno. Correct?
I hate to say it, but I'd like to see actual dyno figures, not just the change. If you dont wish to post this, I will patiently wait for you to get the package installed in your C5 for chassis dyno testing.
I hate to say it, but I'd like to see actual dyno figures, not just the change. If you dont wish to post this, I will patiently wait for you to get the package installed in your C5 for chassis dyno testing.
03-06-2004, 02:05 AM
#3
Eric and others...
Yes, it was an engine dyno and the motor put up 530 HP (corrected) with the AFR combo I described....from there you can do all the other math to figure out the rest. We were very pleased with all of the test results.
Thanks,
Tony M.
Yes, it was an engine dyno and the motor put up 530 HP (corrected) with the AFR combo I described....from there you can do all the other math to figure out the rest. We were very pleased with all of the test results.
Thanks,
Tony M.
03-06-2004, 03:32 AM
#6
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 523
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wait, so you picked up 102 peak hp from your heads, a 224/228 cam, a 78mm FAST intake on an engine dyno? Will you be expecting similar output or less on the chassis dyno?
Trending Topics
03-06-2004, 07:11 AM
#8
Launching!
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: ..
Posts: 297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
thanks and congratulations on your new product.. I bet the power and torque curves are very impressive.
If you get a chance ...let us know what it produced at 3 grand, 4 grand, 5 grand etc..stock to modded..
If I remember correctly the higher velocity design was to produce power where many of us live at on the street meaning peak but also lower in the rpm ranges..
Thanks
JB
If you get a chance ...let us know what it produced at 3 grand, 4 grand, 5 grand etc..stock to modded..
If I remember correctly the higher velocity design was to produce power where many of us live at on the street meaning peak but also lower in the rpm ranges..
Thanks
JB
03-06-2004, 09:18 AM
#9
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sounds like they must be flowing in the upper 200 cfm range. Which is pretty good compared to unported LS1 heads. I'm sure they'll respond well to porting. So they should be a winner! Excited to see what the 225's put out...
Chuck
Chuck
03-06-2004, 09:27 AM
#10
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Pontiac, MI
Posts: 1,364
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can't wait to see what the ported versions with big valves do! Nice gain!
Just for reference, I have a set of ARE heads with 2.02/1.57 valves (newer ports - TEA I have heard?) and the Lingenfelter cam in my sig (207/220 .571/.578 118.5) and I only picked up 65 rwhp with a conservative tune (retune after pulling the blower). Those heads are rocking.
-Geoff
Just for reference, I have a set of ARE heads with 2.02/1.57 valves (newer ports - TEA I have heard?) and the Lingenfelter cam in my sig (207/220 .571/.578 118.5) and I only picked up 65 rwhp with a conservative tune (retune after pulling the blower). Those heads are rocking.
-Geoff
03-06-2004, 11:48 AM
#12
TECH Fanatic
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Middleburg, FL
Posts: 1,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think if you really wanted to show the improvements, you would have used the stock heads as baseline for every test. I'm impressed at the gain over the totally stock confirguration, (I guess, most ported heads pickup 20-30 at the wheels, this was an engine dyno) I would really like to see what the stock heads did with that cam, and then stock heads twith that cam and intake.
Please don't take this as a bash, I'm all for the devlopment of the LS series, but graphs would help, so we can "under the curve" and with TEA pulling 345 out of a stock casting this week, I'm a little let down after all the hype.
Please don't take this as a bash, I'm all for the devlopment of the LS series, but graphs would help, so we can "under the curve" and with TEA pulling 345 out of a stock casting this week, I'm a little let down after all the hype.
03-06-2004, 12:15 PM
#14
Tony,
Thanks for the updates, I look forward to more of them. In short you say:
Picked up 38hp @ Peak compared to stock heads.
With the 224 cam you picked up 102hp totaling 530hp @ peak.
Here is a list of questions I have.
1) As someone else mentioned, were your stock baseline pulls STOCK or were they with the Ported TB, LSX intake, 1.75 primary LT headers and Flowmaster muffler?
2) Your stock dyno's were in the 428hp range? (aprox 363rwhp figuring 15% drivetrain loss)
3) Would you mind posting these 3 dyno over lays, "stock" / with AFR heads / With Cam.
4) How are you coming up with the 15hp gain from the LSX and TB? The range of gain we have seen here on LS1tech for the LSX by itself is very wide. From 4rwhp to as much as 22rwhp I believe. That could be as much as 26flhp.
Please don't take this post as a bash as that is not what it is. I am extreamly interested in your heads and I am holding off on doing heads until I see results. I just really want to see all the details.
Thanks for the updates, I look forward to more of them. In short you say:
Picked up 38hp @ Peak compared to stock heads.
With the 224 cam you picked up 102hp totaling 530hp @ peak.
Here is a list of questions I have.
1) As someone else mentioned, were your stock baseline pulls STOCK or were they with the Ported TB, LSX intake, 1.75 primary LT headers and Flowmaster muffler?
2) Your stock dyno's were in the 428hp range? (aprox 363rwhp figuring 15% drivetrain loss)
3) Would you mind posting these 3 dyno over lays, "stock" / with AFR heads / With Cam.
4) How are you coming up with the 15hp gain from the LSX and TB? The range of gain we have seen here on LS1tech for the LSX by itself is very wide. From 4rwhp to as much as 22rwhp I believe. That could be as much as 26flhp.
Please don't take this post as a bash as that is not what it is. I am extreamly interested in your heads and I am holding off on doing heads until I see results. I just really want to see all the details.
03-06-2004, 01:54 PM
#15
Seems liek good number probably 445-465 in rwhp. Probably 425-445 with LS6 intake, stock TB Seems bout on par yes?
I woudlnt expect that little cam to lose ANY lowend, Ive done cams with almost 20 degrees more duration on each lobe that didnt lose anything compared to a stock cam at 2500-3000
Seems like a nice street package.
I want to see what the big runner is capable of though! 225cc runners in these cars arent detracting from streetability at all currently, so they can only make mo power
Tony what would it take to get my hands on a set of 225s when they come? Contacted you about these heads awhiel ago, but with the delays and all figured it be best let you guys get the first run of 205s out, then give you a ring again. Shoot me a PM
I woudlnt expect that little cam to lose ANY lowend, Ive done cams with almost 20 degrees more duration on each lobe that didnt lose anything compared to a stock cam at 2500-3000
Seems like a nice street package.
I want to see what the big runner is capable of though! 225cc runners in these cars arent detracting from streetability at all currently, so they can only make mo power
Tony what would it take to get my hands on a set of 225s when they come? Contacted you about these heads awhiel ago, but with the delays and all figured it be best let you guys get the first run of 205s out, then give you a ring again. Shoot me a PM
03-06-2004, 03:55 PM
#16
Adkoonerstrator
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Deep in the seedy underworld of Koonerville
Posts: 21,420
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I really want to see what a 409-442 engine will do with a set of 225s, 90mm FAST+TB, and a nice cam. 
Plus, I want to see how much power these heads with the thick decks can hold in the block for the boosted/nitrous crowd.
Those numbers above for the 205s with a small cam are pretty impressive, probably gonna be in the 450rwhp range on the chassis dyno.
Plus, I want to see how much power these heads with the thick decks can hold in the block for the boosted/nitrous crowd.
Those numbers above for the 205s with a small cam are pretty impressive, probably gonna be in the 450rwhp range on the chassis dyno.
03-06-2004, 06:14 PM
#20
? ? ? ? ? ?
iTrader: (16)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: East of Dallas
Posts: 7,056
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Since the topic was on their 205cc heads, wouldn't that mean that these are the CNC ported version, not the "as-cast" head? So the comparison is the stock LS1 as-cast head VS the AFR CNC ported head.
With the addition of a 224/228 cam (XE-R???), FAST intake, ported TB, and AFR CNC 205cc heads, the motor made 102 HP peak gains on an engine dyno. While these are nice gains, I have a feeling that some inexpensive stage 1.5 5.3 heads with the same other mods would show similar results. We just don't know about any area under the curve at this time.
I'm looking forward to the 225 heads.
With the addition of a 224/228 cam (XE-R???), FAST intake, ported TB, and AFR CNC 205cc heads, the motor made 102 HP peak gains on an engine dyno. While these are nice gains, I have a feeling that some inexpensive stage 1.5 5.3 heads with the same other mods would show similar results. We just don't know about any area under the curve at this time.
I'm looking forward to the 225 heads.