Lou you had to expect this, and i dont think Thunde, with their r&d would stoop as low as to do that but hey **** happens,if you would have just posted them in the first place you wouldnt be worried that some one would do this, everyone would know that it was your cam.but hey, dead horse right, do whatch gotta do i guess <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

 

Hey Lou I have been following this new cam as well as the original G5 and have been impressed with the results. I was never a fan of the fact that you did not release specs and wanted to be the only installers of the package, although I did feel it was your right to do this since your R&D team worked hard on it and should be able to control the exact specs of the cam. I think that it is crap for your supplier to give your specs to the highest bidder and its also pathetic for other shops to go after these. Best of luck on future cam packages and I hope you can keep it under wraps with a more ethical supplier that respects your wishes.

 

Well sorry to hear your secret is out....
I know I cant wait for the G5X-2 that I ordered to be put in..By a curtain someone <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

We will have some more numbers to post Saturday <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Well for all of you guys that want to know the specs before you bought the cam.....call up LGM tomorrow and order up

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by LG Motorsports:
[QB] It seems that some of the other genius parts forwarders/fake tuners, (read Thunder plus some other shops), have been working overtime to get our cam specs. They contacted our cam grinder to get our G5X-2 cam specs.
Looks like they have succeded, so I will be selling this cam outright just so they and one other shop cannot claim the cam as their own.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I respected your decision to withold the information, although I don't foresee replacing my cam soon. It seems reasonable competitors would try this avenue. I'm not sure what relationship you had with that cam grinder, but I'd be p!ssed as hell if I were in your shoes. I'd place more blame on the morals of the cam grinder than the other vendors.

So where's the dyno sheet? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

 

My NHRA LEGAL car will be taking that record
in a couple months. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Since I don't live in Texas,I can't pop over
to LG for a G5X-2.
Unless Lou deals with Speed Inc. for the install,
I will be grinding my own cam.

Imagine if we both had the G5X-2....
Not 1, but 2 10 second,M6's with stock,untouched
heads.
I'll get there,just might take a few cams. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

 

Jim
It takes two to tango.

And it is not 100% that they came from the cam grinder. You never saw a "reverse split" cam from LG Motorsports. We never even cared what the other competitors were doing. I had one customer (Whitney R) who bought one of my G5 cams and sent it to thunder, who cam doctored it, then Whitney sent the cam back for a refund. I knew that they would stoop to this, It was just a matter of when.

So be it. I am now trying to find out the source of the leak, so I can know who my friends are, NOT.

We will have to sell 50 cams to recover the R&D money spent. And now at least you will know what our specs are when you buy one.

Who would want to buy anything from backdoor parts forwarders anyway.
Integrety is a rare thing now days.
later,

Lou Gigliotti LGMotorsports

"We innovate, not imitate"
Call Us to place you G5X-2 cam order.

 

Lou, It has become quite obvious recently that you have some sort of beef with Thunder Racing. Please do not drag our name through the mud in this situation with unfounded, untrue assumptions.

It is widely known that we will cam doctor any cam that is sent to us for $25. If one of your customers sent a cam in to be doctored are we supposed to turn them away?

Thunder Racing has no need or want to copy any of your cams. We do our own R&D at our shop for our own cams & engine combos. Everyone has a different philosophy on what makes a camshaft work, and our philosophy is very different from yours.

If you have anything further to say regarding my company, please send it to me directly at angie@thunderracing.com.

Angie
Thunder Racing, Inc.

<small>[ March 05, 2003, 08:05 AM: Message edited by: Angie ]</small>

 

Angie,

Lou said that only 3 G5X-2 cams have left his shop. His son's, mine, and one other customer's whose car is now back in his shop for more mods. Of course Louis wouldn't send you the cam, and I know for sure I didn't, and the other one is sitting in Lou's shop. Who does that leave? I just wish the source would come out and be a man about it so my name will be cleared with Lou. I gave him my word that my cam would never leave my car, and now he has reason to believe that I sent my cam to you. If Jason did receive a magical E-mail that had the specs in it, please tell him to reveal where the E-mail came from. I think it'd be the right thing to do. Thanks.

 

ByByc5,
You say, "If you would have posted the specs, I wouldn't have had to worry about this".

So what you are saying is that, If LG just would have made it easy for the other vendors to get the specs, they would not have had to resort to these tactics????
What I didn't want to do is DO THEIR WORK FOR THEM. And it seems that they didn't want to do their work either. They would rather sneek around and get our specs because they are LAZY. And CANNOT achieve gains without a real tuner's help.

Any way you look at this, it is a sad situation that these LS1 vendors, who claim to be so enlightened, are really just copy cats, who cannot Lead, but only follow.

The internet is like Socialism. Take away from thoes who can , and give to those who can't or won't. There is no reward for taking the lead, if the fruits of someones labor is just handed to the deadbeats who won't carry their load.

So now it is up to you all here to decide who you are going to spend your money with. The Company who is trying to improve the quality of your hotrods, or the companies who sit on their butts and wait to pick the fruits from someone elses tree, rather than plant their own.

Now you will know when you see cams like ours.

Call LG Motorsports to order your G5X-2 from the source. 972-272-7753

Thanks
Lou Gigliotti LGM

 

Angie,

Just tell Jason to forward me a copy of that email, and you and Thunder will be cleared. As it stands now, Thunder is involved, since Jason went out of his way to get the specs, and if he won't reveal who gave it to him, then you are trying to protect the source, or you are protecting yourself.

As it stands now, you and thunder are DEEP in this and you have an easy way out. Just forward the email to me, and you will be vindicated. It is that simple.

We all have a choice in life. We can do the right thing or the wrong thing. Either action speaks volumes of a person or company.

Your move.

Lou Gigliotti LGM

 

Telling people thunder is copy cats and they dont do there own home work to get people to buy your magic cam is a pretty low blow . Jason is not useing your cam in his solid roller moter is he? Because that is one bad *** car with that THUNDER raceing grind. I would have to say that Thunder has produced more fast ls1's than LG and I would continue to buy through Thunder as they will also stand behind there word. I have not seen thunder hide one single cam grind yet and they are the first to come with the popular reverse split. JOB well done THUnder raceing <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

 

No offense but if I was a customer that bought your cam I would definitely get it doctored. I would never put a cam in my car without knowing the specs. (Actually I would never even order it without knowing the specs)
Now whether or not I would post the specs is a different story...

I respect you and your company and think you are doing great R&D but you have to expect this stuff to happen.

It is the internet, I bet people eventually would doctor it and post the specs for other members of the board to have Comp or someone else custom grind it for much less.

I think the fact that you are an innovator increases the level of respect potential clients have for you but cam specs are hard to hide from the public. Head porting R&D is a different matter.

Cheers,
Chris

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by AINT SKEERED:
<strong> Telling people thunder is copy cats and they dont do there own home work to get people to buy your magic cam is a pretty low blow . Jason is not useing your cam in his solid roller moter is he? Because that is one bad *** car with that THUNDER raceing grind. I would have to say that Thunder has produced more fast ls1's than LG and I would continue to buy through Thunder as they will also stand behind there word. I have not seen thunder hide one single cam grind yet and they are the first to come with the popular reverse split. JOB well done THUnder raceing <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Are you sure you know what's really going on here? You know what's going on behind the scenes privately, or are you just going by what you read off the internet? I.E. how do you know what kind of "R&D" went into TR's cams? Not flaming ya, pal. Just wondering.

Still waiting on Angie or Jason or SOMEONE to clear my name here. MY CAM HAS BEEN IN MY CAR SINCE I LEFT LG MOTORSPORTS SATURDAY EVENING AND I HAVE NOT AUTHORIZED ANYONE TO CHECK IT OR MEASURE IT IN ANY WAY. I gave Lou my word that I wouldn't. Please someone be an adult about this and tell us how the info leaked so I won't be wrongly accused.

<small>[ March 05, 2003, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: RAGEman ]</small>

 

Lou...I think the way you are handling this is alittle on the dramatic side. I know you pride yourself in your RD and cam work......but in reality, its just another cam. Your cam only dyno number prove this. Im not knocking them at all, don't get me wrong...but I have tuned several cam only cars above 400-415.

Continue to let your Hp numbers and RD work speak for you.....not the internet Drama.

Chris
AMS

 

If I decide to order the G5X-2, it will definately be through LG rather than somewhere else. I think it's very cool that it is now available to purchase, even though it may have come through poor circumstances.

I have to agree w/ Chris on this one in that it really was only a matter of time before this happened. Hopefully this will show everyone that this particular business tactic doesn't seem to work very well, and adds way too much unnecessary drama & controversy into the picture. I mean if the specs. were actually leaked out - how long were they able to keep them a secret? Only about 1 month or so.

I personally disagree that if the specs were posted off the bat that everyone would rip them off. How many people rip off TR's 230 cam? Nobody I know. The ones I know of actually bought it from Thunder.

I personally run MTI's X1 cam, which I bought from MTI. I don't know anyone that has "ripped off" that cam either by ordering it from somewhere else, all of them I know of came from MTI. I just don't think all the paranoia about specs being stolen are completely justified.

 

Chris,

How many cam-only cars have you tuned that made that kind of power through an exhaust as restrictive as mine and a drivetrain as parasitic as mine? And after Saturday, I'll hopefully be able to say I ran 10's with cam-only in a 6-speed. How many of those have you done? What's the highest cam-only number you've put out and what were the details on his setup (exhaust/drivetrain, etc.)? I'm not flaming you at all, but I wonder if you fail to realize the accomplishment Lou has made with this cam. This is NOT "just another cam." Please respond.

 

Yeah Chris, You are right, it is just another cam. Just another cam that put out 463+rwhp on more than one car, and just another cam that Jason from thunder has gone to great lengths to find out the specs on. We have more hp and torque at EVERY rpm, than the "solid" 346 built motor that thunder put out for Jason. You know, the one that is blown up. and the one with the "Reverse Horsepower" cam.
It is just another cam that put out 404rwhp on a cam only cat with a Torque curve that is over 350 rwtq from 3100 to 6000! Through a 9", and Just another cam that has slipped by all of you here up till now.


Yeah, it is just another cam.

LG

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by RAGEman:
<strong> Chris,

How many cam-only cars have you tuned that made that kind of power through an exhaust as restrictive as mine and a drivetrain as parasitic as mine? And after Saturday, I'll hopefully be able to say I ran 10's with cam-only in a 6-speed. How many of those have you done? What's the highest cam-only number you've put out and what were the details on his setup (exhaust/drivetrain, etc.)? I'm not flaming you at all, but I wonder if you fail to realize the accomplishment Lou has made with this cam. This is NOT "just another cam." Please respond. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well...I tuned a several....one makes 415rwhp with stock heads a F1 cam. I have made 408rwhp with a Thunder 230/224 cam...in a car that had a 98 shorblock, heads, z06 intake and mac headers. I have made 399 with a little Thunder 224 cam in a cam only car, with a 2002Z. Most of thoe cars have stock rears with 3.73's/4.10's.

I too know what goes into RD work. We have tryed several cams at our shop recently that our only installed in shop cars...with very good results. but my biggest RD work comes free....when I dynotune everyone elses combos every day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Honestly...I really would like to know the specs. Not to copy them, but to compare them to the dyno sheet and look what happened. I don't think anyone is really intrested in the exact numbers to copy...just to see how the specs affected the power and powerband itself. Im not taking away anything from Lous work..I respect that and the power he is making. Lou has always been a bolt-on guy to me...selling stickers and body kits. Its nice to see him talkng power seriously now...and pushing these cars to the limits.

Chris

 

I agree with Chris @ AMS, I know many people with LG cams and other products who love Lou's work and customer service. But there are a couple of other cams out there that put out similar numbers to the G5X2 cam. I for example have an F1 cam in my A4 2002 WS6 that put out 380 rwhp and 380 rwtq. Now I know this isn't close to the 404 horse that the G5X2 made.........but im UNTUNED with the stock TB and a stock pully running really rich. I have a buddy with the original G5 cam in his A4 that puts out around 390 at the wheels, what would that be in an M6?

How close will I be to the G5X2 in an M6 with my F1 in an A4? I hope to find out soon.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by RAGEman:
<strong> Chris,

How many cam-only cars have you tuned that made that kind of power through an exhaust as restrictive as mine and a drivetrain as parasitic as mine? And after Saturday, I'll hopefully be able to say I ran 10's with cam-only in a 6-speed. How many of those have you done? What's the highest cam-only number you've put out and what were the details on his setup (exhaust/drivetrain, etc.)? I'm not flaming you at all, but I wonder if you fail to realize the accomplishment Lou has made with this cam. This is NOT "just another cam." Please respond. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Rageman, you consider long tube headers and 3" true duals w/ bullets a restrictive exhaust? I personally wouldn't. Maybe you'd pick up a couple HP from a different set of long tubes. You do have a parasitic drivetrain, but I don't know that it would be much more than about 20HP.

It seems there have been several tuners that have achieved 400-430RWHP cam only so far. Eastside, Thunder, MMS and apparently AMS as well as some others I'd imagine that I'm not aware of.