May have killed a lifter and the engine isn't even running yet...
08-15-2012, 08:29 PM
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May have killed a lifter and the engine isn't even running yet... I need some opinions. I'm trying to wrap up the newest turbo build and Im having a problem with one of the lifters I believe. Here's the story
I went to bump it over a few times with the inj driver box unplugged so it wouldn't start and I could build up a few pounds of oil pressure before starting. Well during this process I heard a Deffinate ticking from inside the engine on the passenger side. Thought maybe one wasn't pumped up so I went ahead and started it up. It started and I let it run for about 15 seconds but the whole time it was backfiring out the exhaust and through the intake.
Can't see how it killed one before it even ran tho. The cam is a virgina speed VTC-4 turbo cam with .61x .60x lift
The valve springs are the standard AFR .650 lift that come on they're heads
The lifters are Comp cam R lifters
At first I thought maybe it was PTV issues but highly doubt that since the wiseco's have valve reliefs the heads are 72cc and the lift isn't all that extreme
What are some thoughts before I tear back into this engine
I went to bump it over a few times with the inj driver box unplugged so it wouldn't start and I could build up a few pounds of oil pressure before starting. Well during this process I heard a Deffinate ticking from inside the engine on the passenger side. Thought maybe one wasn't pumped up so I went ahead and started it up. It started and I let it run for about 15 seconds but the whole time it was backfiring out the exhaust and through the intake.
Can't see how it killed one before it even ran tho. The cam is a virgina speed VTC-4 turbo cam with .61x .60x lift
The valve springs are the standard AFR .650 lift that come on they're heads
The lifters are Comp cam R lifters
At first I thought maybe it was PTV issues but highly doubt that since the wiseco's have valve reliefs the heads are 72cc and the lift isn't all that extreme
What are some thoughts before I tear back into this engine
Last edited by 02anti_vnm; 08-15-2012 at 08:34 PM.
08-15-2012, 11:02 PM
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Dry fit: meaning there was zero oil inside the lifters. When I spun a rod I tore down my motor and diss assembled every lifter and cleaned it. I soaked them in oil and even compressed and relieved the pushrod side so it would soak up more oil.. When I started my fresh rebuilt motor the lifters were screaming for about 2 whole minutes before all of them were full of oil then it quieted down... I say run it for 2-3 minutes to see if it quiets down
Just my .02
Just my .02
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08-16-2012, 04:04 AM
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I measured but could have measured incorrectly due to not being pumped up. What should I do run it for a few minutes to build up oil even with it back firing and poping to build oil pressure or go ahead and check them again now? And put some probably shorter pushrods in it?
08-16-2012, 07:09 AM
#11
1 did you ever measure your pushrod lenght?With a pushrod length tool?
2 you have to set your pre load on the lifters with a dial indicator to make sure you have them correct for the Comp R's .015., or they will fail.
3 Did you soak the lifters in oil beforehand? My old comp R's took almost five minutes to fully pump up.And they were soaked for two days.Since i have learned to pump them while soaked in oil.
4 You should have checked your PTV if, A: your cam isnt stock and B:you are not running stock head gaskets,Just to be safe its kind of easy and takes maybe twenty minutes.
2 you have to set your pre load on the lifters with a dial indicator to make sure you have them correct for the Comp R's .015., or they will fail.
3 Did you soak the lifters in oil beforehand? My old comp R's took almost five minutes to fully pump up.And they were soaked for two days.Since i have learned to pump them while soaked in oil.
4 You should have checked your PTV if, A: your cam isnt stock and B:you are not running stock head gaskets,Just to be safe its kind of easy and takes maybe twenty minutes.
08-16-2012, 07:32 AM
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1 did you ever measure your pushrod lenght?With a pushrod length tool?
2 you have to set your pre load on the lifters with a dial indicator to make sure you have them correct for the Comp R's .015., or they will fail.
3 Did you soak the lifters in oil beforehand? My old comp R's took almost five minutes to fully pump up.And they were soaked for two days.Since i have learned to pump them while soaked in oil.
4 You should have checked your PTV if, A: your cam isnt stock and B:you are not running stock head gaskets,Just to be safe its kind of easy and takes maybe twenty minutes.
2 you have to set your pre load on the lifters with a dial indicator to make sure you have them correct for the Comp R's .015., or they will fail.
3 Did you soak the lifters in oil beforehand? My old comp R's took almost five minutes to fully pump up.And they were soaked for two days.Since i have learned to pump them while soaked in oil.
4 You should have checked your PTV if, A: your cam isnt stock and B:you are not running stock head gaskets,Just to be safe its kind of easy and takes maybe twenty minutes.
id prefer not pull the front of the engine to get to the timing gears. but if its a must i will. ive been doing some research this morning and finding write ups that i dont fully understand.
also how do you go about checking preload with the dial indicator
lifters had been sitting in a bag of oil since they were pulled out of the old engine 3 months ago
08-16-2012, 08:29 AM
#13
Soaking them in oil will not fully pump-up an empty lifter. The only way to achieve a rock solid lifter is in a fixture with a press, submerging the lifter in oil...physically pumping the lifter up. Soaking them will burp some air out, but not all if the lifter was bone dry. Ideally you want to use a thin oil for this process.
Most companies recommend soaking them in oil due to the leakdown fluid used for assembly. Depending on how long they've been on the shelf, the fluid can turn sort of gummy causing the roller and internal piston to stick.
Most companies recommend soaking them in oil due to the leakdown fluid used for assembly. Depending on how long they've been on the shelf, the fluid can turn sort of gummy causing the roller and internal piston to stick.
08-16-2012, 04:10 PM
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They came out of a running engine 3 months ago straight into a bag of oil where they sat before going straight into my new engine.
Kind of confused what you were getting at anyway as it didn't relate to my latest question at all. I asked how to properly check push rod length with the engine assembled
Kind of confused what you were getting at anyway as it didn't relate to my latest question at all. I asked how to properly check push rod length with the engine assembled
08-16-2012, 05:06 PM
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Went out removed the rocker arms, and pushrods, then the spark plugs. Spun it over and still have the tick. Now wondering if a lifter isn't stuck in the bore and the cam is possibly coming around and hitting it
08-16-2012, 11:56 PM
#17
There was multiple questions asked. But soaking them in oil came up frequently which has nothing to do with your problem. I just gave a slightly more detailed description as to why.
Since pushrod length and preload threads pop up daily, I'll be brief with my explination. Torque rocker down, make sure on base circle, use adjustable pushrod and set to 0 lash, calculate length at 0 lash, add preload. Lifters with marginal preload windows need measured across the board. Somebody mentioned .015" preload, which is not enough on an all aluminum application. .025" min. cold even with short travels.
Since pushrod length and preload threads pop up daily, I'll be brief with my explination. Torque rocker down, make sure on base circle, use adjustable pushrod and set to 0 lash, calculate length at 0 lash, add preload. Lifters with marginal preload windows need measured across the board. Somebody mentioned .015" preload, which is not enough on an all aluminum application. .025" min. cold even with short travels.
Last edited by Havoc40; 08-17-2012 at 09:53 AM.
08-17-2012, 03:22 AM
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Yeah man I seen that PM earlier right before I found my Probable problem. I just hadn't had time to message you back but I think that that's my problem I have everything stripped down ready to pull the heads. But I think I'm going to put the rockers and stuff back on and check to see if one doesn't move enough