Problem with my new h/c car...help!
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 125
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From: Raleigh, NC
Problem with my new h/c car...help! Hey guys,
Here's the basic story. I have a 2001 WS6 m6 that previously had Eibach sportlines and an SLP Loudmouth. I recently added the following:
CNC Heads (0.030 over)
TR224 114 cam
TR 7.350 pushrods
P/B LS6 oil pump
Jet Hot L/Ts
Jet Hot O/R Ys
Kept the SLP Loudmouth.
Here's my problem. I knew the car was pulling some codes so I had it tuned by Jeff Creech at CAM in Durham, NC. He's supposedly the best in the area. Anyway, right off the street it pulled like 350/340 at the wheels, which I knew was retarted....fast forward.
After the tune, it pulled like 376/346 at the wheels (DynoJet system). I dont' have any type of intake mods (including a lid, tb, etc.). I ordered a cutout per his suggestion and an SLP lid that will be added before I finish the tune.
I'm a little concerned as to where my power is. These parts were used adn the guy who had them before pulled 397 at the wheels in his automatic. What's wrong with my car?
Thanks guys!
Mike
Here's the basic story. I have a 2001 WS6 m6 that previously had Eibach sportlines and an SLP Loudmouth. I recently added the following:
CNC Heads (0.030 over)
TR224 114 cam
TR 7.350 pushrods
P/B LS6 oil pump
Jet Hot L/Ts
Jet Hot O/R Ys
Kept the SLP Loudmouth.
Here's my problem. I knew the car was pulling some codes so I had it tuned by Jeff Creech at CAM in Durham, NC. He's supposedly the best in the area. Anyway, right off the street it pulled like 350/340 at the wheels, which I knew was retarted....fast forward.
After the tune, it pulled like 376/346 at the wheels (DynoJet system). I dont' have any type of intake mods (including a lid, tb, etc.). I ordered a cutout per his suggestion and an SLP lid that will be added before I finish the tune.
I'm a little concerned as to where my power is. These parts were used adn the guy who had them before pulled 397 at the wheels in his automatic. What's wrong with my car?
Thanks guys!
Mike
He has the LS6 intake, but yeah a lid should help ALOT like 20 right there then you are about were you should be. Some cars dyno higher some lower. Mine did 303 with a lid another guys LS1 on the same dyno stock with a lid did 319 go figure. Different dynos too.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: San Diego, CA
yes your after tune numbers look low....but i would finish the intake mods first! then re dyno and tune before you freak out!
if i were you i would install....
-SSRA with a lid and K&N filter...
-port your TB + TB bypass
-maybe new NGK tr55 plugs and Taylor 10.4mm wires
then do a retune! and if your numbers dont jump 10-15 rwhp then i would start
to wonder about the parts!
BTW- what kind of heads are they? give specs!
if i were you i would install....
-SSRA with a lid and K&N filter...
-port your TB + TB bypass
-maybe new NGK tr55 plugs and Taylor 10.4mm wires
then do a retune! and if your numbers dont jump 10-15 rwhp then i would start
to wonder about the parts!
BTW- what kind of heads are they? give specs!
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 125
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From: Raleigh, NC
Sorry guys, forgot to add this.
The car also has TR55 plugs.
Additionally, I swapped lids with a guy on the dyno and picked up about 6 at the wheels...so it wasn't great, but it was better. I still think I'm missing power.
As for the head specs, it's difficult for me to comment on. They're old heads. CNC heads 5 way angle/valve jobs their heads, then they were sent to More Performance in Charlotte, NC for finishing. I'm not sure what they did to them there, and don't have the specs, unfortunately. I just assumed they were capable because of the guy who had them on before.
Any other tips??
Mike
The car also has TR55 plugs.
Additionally, I swapped lids with a guy on the dyno and picked up about 6 at the wheels...so it wasn't great, but it was better. I still think I'm missing power.
As for the head specs, it's difficult for me to comment on. They're old heads. CNC heads 5 way angle/valve jobs their heads, then they were sent to More Performance in Charlotte, NC for finishing. I'm not sure what they did to them there, and don't have the specs, unfortunately. I just assumed they were capable because of the guy who had them on before.
Any other tips??
Mike
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Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh, NC
Agreed 
Bttt, I need more suggestions from you folks. Don't really have any money to play around with, just want to figure out what I'm missing.
Mike
PS: Car also has a McLeod clutch/flywheel setup in it, now...
Bttt, I need more suggestions from you folks. Don't really have any money to play around with, just want to figure out what I'm missing.Mike
PS: Car also has a McLeod clutch/flywheel setup in it, now...
Think about it if a Lid gives a STOCK ls1 20rwhp sometimed don't you think its going to do wonders for a modified motor??? If its a restriction on a stock motor imagine what it is doing on a modded motor!!!
I would parts you have coming in on maybe a $130 Jantzer performance TB and then dyno tune it again. I bet you'd get close the the 395 number if not more. Other than that I'd look at wear items like spark plug wires, the heads are used how are the springs? That kinda stuff...
I would parts you have coming in on maybe a $130 Jantzer performance TB and then dyno tune it again. I bet you'd get close the the 395 number if not more. Other than that I'd look at wear items like spark plug wires, the heads are used how are the springs? That kinda stuff...
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 125
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From: Raleigh, NC
We took a glance at the internals when we put that heads in, and the springs *looked* fine. They were supposed to have been in there for something like 6,000 miles - they're 02' ls6 springs judging by the colors. Everything seemed to be in good shape. Like I said before about hte lid, I swapped it and only gained 6. I guess I cna hope I get lucky and get some cold air the day I dyno. We'll have to see.
Thanks again man.
Mike
Thanks again man.
Mike
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 125
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From: Raleigh, NC
Oh, and one other thing.
Shortly after I got the car out of the shop, my low oil light came on (this was about 1,000 miles later.) I pulled the dipstick and the oil wasn't even touching the damn thing. The car isn't leaking oil, and I watched them fill the car at the shop, so I know everything went in correctly. What's the deal with that?
Mike
Shortly after I got the car out of the shop, my low oil light came on (this was about 1,000 miles later.) I pulled the dipstick and the oil wasn't even touching the damn thing. The car isn't leaking oil, and I watched them fill the car at the shop, so I know everything went in correctly. What's the deal with that?
Mike
Well sorry I didn't see the lid part although 6 is nothing to laugh at.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but LS6 springs are not enough for that cam.
Did they put some kind of sealant on the rocker bolts? If they are ported the rocker bolts go into the intake bolts and if not sealed they can leak oil in there.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but LS6 springs are not enough for that cam.
Did they put some kind of sealant on the rocker bolts? If they are ported the rocker bolts go into the intake bolts and if not sealed they can leak oil in there.
Originally Posted by SeeinRed
Oh, and one other thing.
Shortly after I got the car out of the shop, my low oil light came on (this was about 1,000 miles later.) I pulled the dipstick and the oil wasn't even touching the damn thing. The car isn't leaking oil, and I watched them fill the car at the shop, so I know everything went in correctly. What's the deal with that?
Mike
Shortly after I got the car out of the shop, my low oil light came on (this was about 1,000 miles later.) I pulled the dipstick and the oil wasn't even touching the damn thing. The car isn't leaking oil, and I watched them fill the car at the shop, so I know everything went in correctly. What's the deal with that?
Mike
When mine stuck open the car was 2-3 mph down at the track and I could not figure out why 'till the low oil light came on. Put a new PCV in and my 20-30 hp magicaly came back and it hasn't used any oil since.
The only other thought along that same vein is bad valve seals causing the same problem.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 125
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From: Raleigh, NC
Thanks for the info guys. What else do I need to know about this PCV valve thing? Can you point me in the right direction, Al. And how do these things break? The car was fine before...
Mike
Mike
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From: La Porte, TX
I was thinking valve seals myself...PCV could also be the problem...I can definately see the low octane table taking over. I also agree, on the valvespring idea. I wouldn't be running those springs with that cam, however it appears that the previous owner of the setup was getting away with it, so who knows. Do you have a copy of the graph, that you can post so we can see if you are experiencing any float? Aslo if you are consuming the oil, don't forget to change your plugs, I'm sure they are shot to ****.
Matt
Matt
LS6 springs will not work with .563 lift of a TR224 cam for very long! I would think you are having valvefloat in the upper RPM range, taking away HP/TQ. Use comp 918's.
On a second note...you might really want to think about what type of heads you really have, if the person before you were using used cheap *** LS6 springs to save a few dollars, no matter how small his cam was. This could also indicate the type of work that he paid for to get the heads ported, polished, valves put in, seals, and ect!
On a second note...you might really want to think about what type of heads you really have, if the person before you were using used cheap *** LS6 springs to save a few dollars, no matter how small his cam was. This could also indicate the type of work that he paid for to get the heads ported, polished, valves put in, seals, and ect!
Last edited by Magred2001vette; Apr 7, 2004 at 08:29 AM.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh, NC
Yep, I understand all of that completely.
Here's the deal; there's no visible float up top, and we upped the limiter to 6500 without any problems. The power just kept coming. to be absolutely honest, I was told this was a TR224/114, I don't know that with any definitive knowledge. It could be smaller than that, I suppose, but when we put it in the guy at the shop laughed at me and told me it was bigger than a 224. I supposed that More performance probably knew their stuff wehn they put those springs in, but I also didn't know they were ls6 springs until after the fact.
I had the heads looked over by the shop I had the work done at and they said everything appeared to be in good shape. Granted, that was from cleaning them up and eying them to see how they looked.
I don't have a copy of the graph to share, unfortunately, but there's not too much that can be said from it anyway. the tuner said everything looked good, and I imagine after having done 8273129 ls1s, he would have known if there was a problem.
any other thoughts guys? So far I think I'm going to try and get a new PCV thing, a catch can, and probably some new plugs. Fair enough?
Mike
Here's the deal; there's no visible float up top, and we upped the limiter to 6500 without any problems. The power just kept coming. to be absolutely honest, I was told this was a TR224/114, I don't know that with any definitive knowledge. It could be smaller than that, I suppose, but when we put it in the guy at the shop laughed at me and told me it was bigger than a 224. I supposed that More performance probably knew their stuff wehn they put those springs in, but I also didn't know they were ls6 springs until after the fact.
I had the heads looked over by the shop I had the work done at and they said everything appeared to be in good shape. Granted, that was from cleaning them up and eying them to see how they looked.
I don't have a copy of the graph to share, unfortunately, but there's not too much that can be said from it anyway. the tuner said everything looked good, and I imagine after having done 8273129 ls1s, he would have known if there was a problem.
any other thoughts guys? So far I think I'm going to try and get a new PCV thing, a catch can, and probably some new plugs. Fair enough?
Mike
