Finally pulling the trigger on parts!
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,258
Likes: 146
From: Pace, FL
Also, I have been wavering on the S60. It's really big and heavy. And behind an A4, I don't know if I need that much rearend strength.
Moser 12-bolt is goofy, so I've been looking at the Strange 12-bolt with an Eaton 33-spline Posi w/4.11 Gears and a PST 3.5" Alum driveshaft with the Cryo 1350 U-Joint.
Would that would be fine to 600rwhp in an A4? I get to keep 3" axle tubes (for the Strano swaybars) and keep weight down compared to the S60 for handling purposes (I still want this thing to take a corner to some degree). The best would be a Moser M9. But it's very expensive for what I plan to do.
Any thoughts?
Moser 12-bolt is goofy, so I've been looking at the Strange 12-bolt with an Eaton 33-spline Posi w/4.11 Gears and a PST 3.5" Alum driveshaft with the Cryo 1350 U-Joint.
Would that would be fine to 600rwhp in an A4? I get to keep 3" axle tubes (for the Strano swaybars) and keep weight down compared to the S60 for handling purposes (I still want this thing to take a corner to some degree). The best would be a Moser M9. But it's very expensive for what I plan to do.
Any thoughts?
i know someone that has broken his Strange 12-bolt 2 times forsure, maybe 3 times. his car is just an auto with a cam and full bolt ons.
i ran a 9inch and had no problems with it. i think next time i will go with the s60.
i ran a 9inch and had no problems with it. i think next time i will go with the s60.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,258
Likes: 146
From: Pace, FL
S60 straight up is like 25lbs heavier. Once you factor in the aluminum cover for the 12-bolt, it's more like 30lbs? So, not insignificant.
And breaking a rear that many times is strange. Especially with an auto. Is it the Eaton that's failing?
The aluminum Spool with gundrilled axles weighs only 140lbs total from Strange. I know a Spool is counterproductive to turning, but that just goes to show you how light you can make them. That's like 80lbs less than an S60. And most folks have a hard time breaking a 12-bolt spool.
And breaking a rear that many times is strange. Especially with an auto. Is it the Eaton that's failing?
The aluminum Spool with gundrilled axles weighs only 140lbs total from Strange. I know a Spool is counterproductive to turning, but that just goes to show you how light you can make them. That's like 80lbs less than an S60. And most folks have a hard time breaking a 12-bolt spool.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,258
Likes: 146
From: Pace, FL
That makes me sad. Mainly cuz stepping up to a Moser 9" costs way more than a Strange 12-bolt. That leaves the S60... which is actually cheaper than the 12-bolt right now.
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Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,258
Likes: 146
From: Pace, FL
Also, I forgot about the freight fees Strange adds to their axles. Moser 9" isn't actually that much worse with a 31-spline TrueTrac when shipped... Hmm. Still much more expensive than an S60 tho. But a 9" would be plenty strong.
I was leaning toward the 12 bolt because of weight like Jake mentioned and also because every Moser 12 bolt owner I encounter says their rear got loud after like 10 passes.
9" rears rob a good bit of power (around 5%) though so consider that when balancing the weight difference between an S60 and a 9". I'm still undecided between the strange 12 bolt or the S60. I was contemplating a 8.8 build and also a 9" but I know I won't be able to sleep at night if there's a F@rd part on my car, haha.
From what Carl @ CRP told me the S60 doesnt eat much more power than the Moser 9" if any. There was an article he showed me awhile back that did a comparison between the 12 bolt, s60, & 9". I am going with the S60 for the fact that it is strong as ****, and is quite a bit cheaper than the Moser 9". It might be a bit heavier but Ill take the hit on the weight for the price difference. Just my opinion 
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,258
Likes: 146
From: Pace, FL
Lol.
If I knew I was going turbo down the line and was looking for 800+rwhp, I'd do the S60. Who cares at that point how much power it eats - you need strength. But at 480rwhp? Eating 5-6% of that is a big deal and that's about what an S60 eats per what I've seen in GMHTP. The Moser M9 they tested it against ate like .4%... And it's lighter than a 10-bolt. And super strong as well. But also very expensive.
Strange 12-bolt might give me the best combination of strength without too bad a weight or power penalty at a price I'd actually consider.
If I knew I was going turbo down the line and was looking for 800+rwhp, I'd do the S60. Who cares at that point how much power it eats - you need strength. But at 480rwhp? Eating 5-6% of that is a big deal and that's about what an S60 eats per what I've seen in GMHTP. The Moser M9 they tested it against ate like .4%... And it's lighter than a 10-bolt. And super strong as well. But also very expensive.
Strange 12-bolt might give me the best combination of strength without too bad a weight or power penalty at a price I'd actually consider.
Lol.
If I knew I was going turbo down the line and was looking for 800+rwhp, I'd do the S60. Who cares at that point how much power it eats - you need strength. But at 480rwhp? Eating 5-6% of that is a big deal and that's about what an S60 eats per what I've seen in GMHTP. The Moser M9 they tested it against ate like .4%... And it's lighter than a 10-bolt. And super strong as well. But also very expensive.
Strange 12-bolt might give me the best combination of strength without too bad a weight or power penalty at a price I'd actually consider.
If I knew I was going turbo down the line and was looking for 800+rwhp, I'd do the S60. Who cares at that point how much power it eats - you need strength. But at 480rwhp? Eating 5-6% of that is a big deal and that's about what an S60 eats per what I've seen in GMHTP. The Moser M9 they tested it against ate like .4%... And it's lighter than a 10-bolt. And super strong as well. But also very expensive.
Strange 12-bolt might give me the best combination of strength without too bad a weight or power penalty at a price I'd actually consider.
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...p/viewall.html
I never saw the one from GMHTP. Can you post the link?
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,258
Likes: 146
From: Pace, FL
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...r_m9_rearends/
3.5% to 1%... and the M9 was in a more powerful car losing less.
3.5% to 1%... and the M9 was in a more powerful car losing less.
For a few years now what some dirt (street stock) and NHRA (super stock)
racers have been using is the 9" housing with the 12 bolt third member.
The weaker yet less power robbing pinion location of the 12 bolt gearset plus
having the gears ni-chem coated tends to reduce friction (cooler fluid temps)
and frees up some rwhp.
racers have been using is the 9" housing with the 12 bolt third member.
The weaker yet less power robbing pinion location of the 12 bolt gearset plus
having the gears ni-chem coated tends to reduce friction (cooler fluid temps)
and frees up some rwhp.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,258
Likes: 146
From: Pace, FL
Interesting concept. I'll play around with it some more and see how the budget looks when the 10-bolt explodes. lol
Hell, if the budget affords an M9 or MWC Fab 9 then I'd do that. Actually, when I priced out the M9+TA vs a Moser 9" + BMR TA and 4L60E Relo bracket, the difference was only a couple hundred bucks. In case you can't tell, I'd really like to have the M9 and usually I can talk myself into blowing my budget to get what I want.
Anyway, the valve reliefs were cleaned up today. All are pretty much spot on depth wise after I went back over a few with the cutter. Then I sanded any rough spots and cleaned out the reliefs with some B-12 chemtool. Very smooth to the touch now.
Pics:
Driver's side
Passenger's side
Hell, if the budget affords an M9 or MWC Fab 9 then I'd do that. Actually, when I priced out the M9+TA vs a Moser 9" + BMR TA and 4L60E Relo bracket, the difference was only a couple hundred bucks. In case you can't tell, I'd really like to have the M9 and usually I can talk myself into blowing my budget to get what I want.
Anyway, the valve reliefs were cleaned up today. All are pretty much spot on depth wise after I went back over a few with the cutter. Then I sanded any rough spots and cleaned out the reliefs with some B-12 chemtool. Very smooth to the touch now.
Pics:
Driver's side
Passenger's side