MMS 220 Build for "Ghost Hawk"
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 546
Likes: 0
From: Wichita, KS
no I checked two valves on two different cylinders. The wipe pattern isn't about pushrod length, but pedestal height. Once I saw two cylinders give the same result I went with it. I will be measuring all 16 pushrods. FWIW, it was a subtle difference between.100" shims and .120". The .060" that came with the kit were way off.
Lol on the time comment. My wife went on a training thing for work, so I'm blasting through this as much as possible. Hoping when she gets home it's nothing left but bolt on stuff. Otherwise it'd be dragged out like my other projects.
She is awesome about letting me do this stuff but if the time gets too far out of balance she will lose patience.
Lol on the time comment. My wife went on a training thing for work, so I'm blasting through this as much as possible. Hoping when she gets home it's nothing left but bolt on stuff. Otherwise it'd be dragged out like my other projects.
She is awesome about letting me do this stuff but if the time gets too far out of balance she will lose patience.
Might be a dumb question, but I'm planning on doing about the same exact thing in a few weeks (only through a power robbing A4) and I have never measured for pushrods or installed roller rockers. It seems insane for a noob like myself to install such a high end set up, but then again it seems crazy to buy things twice and waste money....
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 10,450
Likes: 1,873
From: My own internal universe
This might be a dumb question, but how did you check the wipe pattern with no pushrods? Did you use your adjustable pushrods? If so, how did you know what length to make them? Might be a dumb question, but I'm planning on doing about the same exact thing in a few weeks (only through a power robbing A4) and I have never measured for pushrods or installed roller rockers. It seems insane for a noob like myself to install such a high end set up, but then again it seems crazy to buy things twice and waste money....
I spent three hours on the phone with Tony the night I did them. That was the one time during the whole build I think he would have punched me. But once you get it, it's pretty straight forward, and you feel sort of silly for not getting it
before.
And it's cheaper to just go all in. I wasted several thousand doing it on the cheap. If I had that money back I'd have my dual exhaust and be halfway to the lighter clutch
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 824
Likes: 568
Guys,
Been buried....still digging out!
The Mamofied BC2 with the CNC machined windows around the perimeter of the flywheel (where that weight savings has the most advantage) knocks about 5 lbs off it.....come in around 32-32.5 lbs total.....flywheel and complete clutch assembly.
Low/mid 30's is the sweet spot for a performance street strip clutch.....you can go too light and the car is more of a hassle to drive. With this clutch it takes a day or three to get used to it and after that your just left with an engine that feels more alive, much more responsive, but minimal issues in normal driving. Tons of other perks concerning how well you can speed shift the car etc,, the fact its much easier on your synchros, and the extra ponies at the tire is also bonus.
Its the holy grail of performance dual purpose clutches IMO.....and I've driven just about everything....without fail most others come with some lingering annoyances that grow more painful the longer you live with them! (sound familiar guys....LOL.....it was right there!)
=)
Pics of the clutch
Been buried....still digging out!
The Mamofied BC2 with the CNC machined windows around the perimeter of the flywheel (where that weight savings has the most advantage) knocks about 5 lbs off it.....come in around 32-32.5 lbs total.....flywheel and complete clutch assembly.
Low/mid 30's is the sweet spot for a performance street strip clutch.....you can go too light and the car is more of a hassle to drive. With this clutch it takes a day or three to get used to it and after that your just left with an engine that feels more alive, much more responsive, but minimal issues in normal driving. Tons of other perks concerning how well you can speed shift the car etc,, the fact its much easier on your synchros, and the extra ponies at the tire is also bonus.
Its the holy grail of performance dual purpose clutches IMO.....and I've driven just about everything....without fail most others come with some lingering annoyances that grow more painful the longer you live with them! (sound familiar guys....LOL.....it was right there!)
=)
Pics of the clutch
__________________
www.mamomotorsports.com
Tony@MamoMotorsports.com
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
www.mamomotorsports.com
Tony@MamoMotorsports.com
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
Guys,
Been buried....still digging out!
The Mamofied BC2 with the CNC machined windows around the perimeter of the flywheel (where that weight savings has the most advantage) knocks about 5 lbs off it.....come in around 32-32.5 lbs total.....flywheel and complete clutch assembly.
Low/mid 30's is the sweet spot for a performance street strip clutch.....you can go too light and the car is more of a hassle to drive. With this clutch it takes a day or three to get used to it and after that your just left with an engine that feels more alive, much more responsive, but minimal issues in normal driving. Tons of other perks concerning how well you can speed shift the car etc,, the fact its much easier on your synchros, and the extra ponies at the tire is also bonus.
Its the holy grail of performance dual purpose clutches IMO.....and I've driven just about everything....without fail most others come with some lingering annoyances that grow more painful the longer you live with them! (sound familiar guys....LOL.....it was right there!)
=)
Pics of the clutch
Been buried....still digging out!
The Mamofied BC2 with the CNC machined windows around the perimeter of the flywheel (where that weight savings has the most advantage) knocks about 5 lbs off it.....come in around 32-32.5 lbs total.....flywheel and complete clutch assembly.
Low/mid 30's is the sweet spot for a performance street strip clutch.....you can go too light and the car is more of a hassle to drive. With this clutch it takes a day or three to get used to it and after that your just left with an engine that feels more alive, much more responsive, but minimal issues in normal driving. Tons of other perks concerning how well you can speed shift the car etc,, the fact its much easier on your synchros, and the extra ponies at the tire is also bonus.
Its the holy grail of performance dual purpose clutches IMO.....and I've driven just about everything....without fail most others come with some lingering annoyances that grow more painful the longer you live with them! (sound familiar guys....LOL.....it was right there!)
=)
Pics of the clutch
Most people who hate a light clutch (within reason) have never even driven one and are just repeating what they hear. I would love to try the rps billet with the alum option at 25lbs or the spec D-trim which is 23lbs. If you can get used to driving them the performance bonus from one is huge
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Verdad Gallardo TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 546
Likes: 0
From: Wichita, KS
Not a dumb question at all. I used the adjustables. I set them at about .050 lash. You need to be able to lift the rocker off the stem. That last 050 lift doesn't make too much difference when you compare various wipe patterns. You'll see how a pattern gets narrow and centered and how it compares to wider off center ones.
I spent three hours on the phone with Tony the night I did them. That was the one time during the whole build I think he would have punched me. But once you get it, it's pretty straight forward, and you feel sort of silly for not getting it
before.
And it's cheaper to just go all in. I wasted several thousand doing it on the cheap. If I had that money back I'd have my dual exhaust and be halfway to the lighter clutch
I spent three hours on the phone with Tony the night I did them. That was the one time during the whole build I think he would have punched me. But once you get it, it's pretty straight forward, and you feel sort of silly for not getting it
before.
And it's cheaper to just go all in. I wasted several thousand doing it on the cheap. If I had that money back I'd have my dual exhaust and be halfway to the lighter clutch
It helps a lot reading through your build before I place my order and start tearing the motor apart. I think when I start, I will just order .120-.125 shims and see how close I get, and adjust from there.
Guys,
Been buried....still digging out!
The Mamofied BC2 with the CNC machined windows around the perimeter of the flywheel (where that weight savings has the most advantage) knocks about 5 lbs off it.....come in around 32-32.5 lbs total.....flywheel and complete clutch assembly.
Low/mid 30's is the sweet spot for a performance street strip clutch.....you can go too light and the car is more of a hassle to drive. With this clutch it takes a day or three to get used to it and after that your just left with an engine that feels more alive, much more responsive, but minimal issues in normal driving. Tons of other perks concerning how well you can speed shift the car etc,, the fact its much easier on your synchros, and the extra ponies at the tire is also bonus.
Its the holy grail of performance dual purpose clutches IMO.....and I've driven just about everything....without fail most others come with some lingering annoyances that grow more painful the longer you live with them! (sound familiar guys....LOL.....it was right there!)
=)
Pics of the clutch
Been buried....still digging out!
The Mamofied BC2 with the CNC machined windows around the perimeter of the flywheel (where that weight savings has the most advantage) knocks about 5 lbs off it.....come in around 32-32.5 lbs total.....flywheel and complete clutch assembly.
Low/mid 30's is the sweet spot for a performance street strip clutch.....you can go too light and the car is more of a hassle to drive. With this clutch it takes a day or three to get used to it and after that your just left with an engine that feels more alive, much more responsive, but minimal issues in normal driving. Tons of other perks concerning how well you can speed shift the car etc,, the fact its much easier on your synchros, and the extra ponies at the tire is also bonus.
Its the holy grail of performance dual purpose clutches IMO.....and I've driven just about everything....without fail most others come with some lingering annoyances that grow more painful the longer you live with them! (sound familiar guys....LOL.....it was right there!)
=)
Pics of the clutch
Pretty much verbatim of what we were speaking of just a day ago! Like you were saying to me, since it's not an organic based clutch it doesn't create any dust at all and will pretty much last the life of the vehicle. The craftsmanship on all the Billet parts look incredible, too nice to hide in the bellhousing if you ask me! Not to mention the weight savings (in the right places) and the lack of need to balance the whole assembly to minimize vibration.
The price is steep for many I'd say but the quality, performance gains, trouble free longevity, and piece of mind go a long way. Once my current setup needs to be replaced I'll be going for it.
Not yet. I'm tapped out. The money I spent on all the other crap that happened would have covered the kooks and the clutch. Oh well. I basically ran dumped headers with 18" extensions on the end just to get a number. I don't expect the kooks will add, just sound better.
I do think the lighter clutch will make a difference.
I do think the lighter clutch will make a difference.
I don't have a lightweight fly but use a McLeod twin. The advantage of a twin is the clutch assembly itself is a smaller diameter and that moves the MOI closer to the axis helping to free up a few HP. The weight of the fly IMHO should be tied to intended use AND the weight of the car. My GTO is a little heavier and ones I've driven with a lightweight fly didn't behave as well in a street environment. They bog down a little without revs and slipping the clutch. A Vette might be fine. Just my humble opinion.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,845
Likes: 255
From: Coast of San Mateo County Between Pacifica & HMB
Lighter Cluctch & Flywheels biggest benefit is in gear coming of a corner,
and recovery after shifting to next higher gear. On the street the criteria
in order to benefit is 1 lighter total vehicle weight, 2 higher numerical
Gears, 3 more displacement/stroke/low end torque, 4 more vacuum/
Less Cam Overlap, also where one drives there vehicle matters
As well, San Francisco Hills LOL! And stop & go commute traffic
Would certainly add to the Fun, NOT!
So in summation a weekend toy Vette with 3.42:1s, F body with
At least 3.73:1s, GTO with at least 4.10:1s with a high comp (11.0:1+) high velocity air speed Cylinder heads with medium sized cam relative to displacement With Wider LSA 113-116* is a baseline for a light
Clutch/Flywheel combo IMHO.
I do have Tony's RPS Billet Carbon Lightened Twin for my 396"
Vette Project in interest of full disclosure.
and recovery after shifting to next higher gear. On the street the criteria
in order to benefit is 1 lighter total vehicle weight, 2 higher numerical
Gears, 3 more displacement/stroke/low end torque, 4 more vacuum/
Less Cam Overlap, also where one drives there vehicle matters
As well, San Francisco Hills LOL! And stop & go commute traffic
Would certainly add to the Fun, NOT!
So in summation a weekend toy Vette with 3.42:1s, F body with
At least 3.73:1s, GTO with at least 4.10:1s with a high comp (11.0:1+) high velocity air speed Cylinder heads with medium sized cam relative to displacement With Wider LSA 113-116* is a baseline for a light
Clutch/Flywheel combo IMHO.
I do have Tony's RPS Billet Carbon Lightened Twin for my 396"
Vette Project in interest of full disclosure.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 10,450
Likes: 1,873
From: My own internal universe
To be honest, I prefer larger overlap - at least so far. I've driven or run in mine - stock (-34), zero, +2, and now +7.5. Each has to me felt better on the butt dyno. I find that more overlap on the cam helps carry power better on the high end, though it makes low throttle / low rpm cruising more difficult. Also, it allows you to run earlier IVC for good midrange torque without sacrificing as much duration.
Look at the Tick SNS V2 that nobody ever complains about.
Having said that, if I do anything else to the internals of this motor, it'll be a bigger cam, like 235/240, but I'd still try to keep overlap in it. I want the duration, but I don't want the IVC to get too late on the compression stroke and start dropping midrange. But that's just talk. Exhaust is next no matter what. I hate this cobbled together exhaust I have now. It was much more fun that one drive I made with open headers.
The added benefit of nods of approval from guys with mullets.
and quiet riot T shirts.
Look at the Tick SNS V2 that nobody ever complains about.
Having said that, if I do anything else to the internals of this motor, it'll be a bigger cam, like 235/240, but I'd still try to keep overlap in it. I want the duration, but I don't want the IVC to get too late on the compression stroke and start dropping midrange. But that's just talk. Exhaust is next no matter what. I hate this cobbled together exhaust I have now. It was much more fun that one drive I made with open headers.
The added benefit of nods of approval from guys with mullets.
and quiet riot T shirts. With longer duration it's hard to avoid overlap so that shouldn't be a problem. If Tony specs the cam I think he is for me it should will be near 11.5*. One way to figure overlap is add the two durations together, divide by 4, subtract the lsa and then double that answer. As you can see by doing that larger durations increase overlap if the lsa remains the same. With a 235/240 you'd need a 118.75* lsa to get 0* overlap.
LS1Tech Sponsor
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 824
Likes: 568
__________________
www.mamomotorsports.com
Tony@MamoMotorsports.com
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
www.mamomotorsports.com
Tony@MamoMotorsports.com
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 10,450
Likes: 1,873
From: My own internal universe