MMS 220 Build for "Ghost Hawk"
TECH Resident
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 751
Likes: 0
From: Texas
Lighter Cluctch & Flywheels biggest benefit is in gear coming of a corner,
and recovery after shifting to next higher gear. On the street the criteria
in order to benefit is 1 lighter total vehicle weight, 2 higher numerical
Gears, 3 more displacement/stroke/low end torque, 4 more vacuum/
Less Cam Overlap, also where one drives there vehicle matters
As well, San Francisco Hills LOL! And stop & go commute traffic
Would certainly add to the Fun, NOT!
So in summation a weekend toy Vette with 3.42:1s, F body with
At least 3.73:1s, GTO with at least 4.10:1s with a high comp (11.0:1+) high velocity air speed Cylinder heads with medium sized cam relative to displacement With Wider LSA 113-116* is a baseline for a light
Clutch/Flywheel combo IMHO.
I do have Tony's RPS Billet Carbon Lightened Twin for my 396"
Vette Project in interest of full disclosure.
and recovery after shifting to next higher gear. On the street the criteria
in order to benefit is 1 lighter total vehicle weight, 2 higher numerical
Gears, 3 more displacement/stroke/low end torque, 4 more vacuum/
Less Cam Overlap, also where one drives there vehicle matters
As well, San Francisco Hills LOL! And stop & go commute traffic
Would certainly add to the Fun, NOT!
So in summation a weekend toy Vette with 3.42:1s, F body with
At least 3.73:1s, GTO with at least 4.10:1s with a high comp (11.0:1+) high velocity air speed Cylinder heads with medium sized cam relative to displacement With Wider LSA 113-116* is a baseline for a light
Clutch/Flywheel combo IMHO.
I do have Tony's RPS Billet Carbon Lightened Twin for my 396"
Vette Project in interest of full disclosure.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 10,450
Likes: 1,873
From: My own internal universe
Well I scared the living **** out of myself. Oil change to get the break in oil out and once she got good and hot, started blowing oil like crazy. I mean going down the road and everybody starts hanging way far back. But the gauges were all fine. I stopped and smoke is pouring out the hood. Looked kinda cool coming out the nostrils like an angry bull. But at the time I was too nervous to appreciate it
So I get it up on a lift and find that the zip tie I had used to get the O2 extensions secured had got between the oil filter and the housing, so oil was squirting out onto the drivers side header.
So I get it up on a lift and find that the zip tie I had used to get the O2 extensions secured had got between the oil filter and the housing, so oil was squirting out onto the drivers side header.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 10,450
Likes: 1,873
From: My own internal universe
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 10,450
Likes: 1,873
From: My own internal universe
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
LS1Tech Sponsor
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 824
Likes: 568
Should also make mention that includes the extra volume of the larger bore gasket required with these heads to clear the combustion chamber I designed (with more unshrouding of the valves). A standard 3.930 or 3.940 gasket would bump the CR higher than that.
Just a good point and one of those important details alot of people miss when selecting gaskets.....even shops
The wrong size gasket can hang into the chamber of the head.....its not just about being larger than the engine's physical bore.....the builder always must account for the size/shape of the combustion chamber of the heads they are running as well
-Tony
Just a good point and one of those important details alot of people miss when selecting gaskets.....even shops
The wrong size gasket can hang into the chamber of the head.....its not just about being larger than the engine's physical bore.....the builder always must account for the size/shape of the combustion chamber of the heads they are running as well
-Tony
__________________
www.mamomotorsports.com
Tony@MamoMotorsports.com
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
www.mamomotorsports.com
Tony@MamoMotorsports.com
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
Should also make mention that includes the extra volume of the larger bore gasket required with these heads to clear the combustion chamber I designed (with more unshrouding of the valves). A standard 3.930 or 3.940 gasket would bump the CR higher than that.
Just a good point and one of those important details alot of people miss when selecting gaskets.....even shops
The wrong size gasket can hang into the chamber of the head.....its not just about being larger than the engine's physical bore.....the builder always must account for the size/shape of the combustion chamber of the heads they are running as well
-Tony
Just a good point and one of those important details alot of people miss when selecting gaskets.....even shops
The wrong size gasket can hang into the chamber of the head.....its not just about being larger than the engine's physical bore.....the builder always must account for the size/shape of the combustion chamber of the heads they are running as well
-Tony
LS1Tech Sponsor
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 824
Likes: 568
The correct gasket choice is not just about how large your bore is.....you must factor in the chamber bore size/design as well. I cant tell you how many shops drop the ball on this crucial detail as well.....its scary actually.
-Tony
__________________
www.mamomotorsports.com
Tony@MamoMotorsports.com
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
www.mamomotorsports.com
Tony@MamoMotorsports.com
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
No....that's just my point. You need a gasket that covers both the head and the bore. My chamber design is unshrouded for better low/midlift flow and as such requires a minimum of a 4.135 gasket. I normally run a 4.160 su the sealing ring isn't so close to the edge.
The correct gasket choice is not just about how large your bore is.....you must factor in the chamber bore size/design as well. I cant tell you how many shops drop the ball on this crucial detail as well.....its scary actually.
-Tony
The correct gasket choice is not just about how large your bore is.....you must factor in the chamber bore size/design as well. I cant tell you how many shops drop the ball on this crucial detail as well.....its scary actually.
-Tony
The removal of shrouding around the valve seat is vastly more advantageous than the lip between the chamber and bore. Sure it would be better if there was no lip but you'd need a bigger bore. Then with the bigger bore you can run bigger valves. You can see how it starts to spiral.
LS1Tech Sponsor
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 824
Likes: 568
As a head designer, if you make the room with a more unshrouded design, the additional air can get in and out and while the small lip isn't optimal (a bigger bore is ideal), air is compressible and can easily negotiate the small lip so you still took 80% advantage of the unshrouded chamber design even with the small bore engine (while a large bore engine would take 100% advantage of course).
Hope this makes it even clearer as to the benefit of a design feature I see alot of folks drop the ball on
-Tony
__________________
www.mamomotorsports.com
Tony@MamoMotorsports.com
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
www.mamomotorsports.com
Tony@MamoMotorsports.com
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
No....that's just my point. You need a gasket that covers both the head and the bore. My chamber design is unshrouded for better low/midlift flow and as such requires a minimum of a 4.135 gasket. I normally run a 4.160 su the sealing ring isn't so close to the edge.
The correct gasket choice is not just about how large your bore is.....you must factor in the chamber bore size/design as well. I cant tell you how many shops drop the ball on this crucial detail as well.....its scary actually.
-Tony
The correct gasket choice is not just about how large your bore is.....you must factor in the chamber bore size/design as well. I cant tell you how many shops drop the ball on this crucial detail as well.....its scary actually.
-Tony
i wanted to go up in compression and honestly was looking to do heads soon. finding this new head you have has me intrigued , what cc along with gasket would it take to get me to 11/1 compression and would my f14 cam work well with this head? specs on cam are 232/234.8 - .599/.599 112 lsa 108cl 10 degrees over lap.
i will change cam when i build another short block so i dont want to put to much into this short block . next 1 will be 408 or possibly bore to 4.070 on iron block to a 416. i need a head now that will still give good power but great power under the curve with both set ups. thanks
LS1Tech Sponsor
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 824
Likes: 568
right now im running a sbe lq4 with a standard gm gasket. with 63.5 cc combustion chambers. quick calculations say i have 10.3/1 compression using a 6.7cc dish in the stock pistons.
i wanted to go up in compression and honestly was looking to do heads soon. finding this new head you have has me intrigued , what cc along with gasket would it take to get me to 11/1 compression and would my f14 cam work well with this head? specs on cam are 232/234.8 - .599/.599 112 lsa 108cl 10 degrees over lap.
i will change cam when i build another short block so i dont want to put to much into this short block . next 1 will be 408 or possibly bore to 4.070 on iron block to a 416. i need a head now that will still give good power but great power under the curve with both set ups. thanks
i wanted to go up in compression and honestly was looking to do heads soon. finding this new head you have has me intrigued , what cc along with gasket would it take to get me to 11/1 compression and would my f14 cam work well with this head? specs on cam are 232/234.8 - .599/.599 112 lsa 108cl 10 degrees over lap.
i will change cam when i build another short block so i dont want to put to much into this short block . next 1 will be 408 or possibly bore to 4.070 on iron block to a 416. i need a head now that will still give good power but great power under the curve with both set ups. thanks
I would take them to 62 cc's.....with a proper bore gasket that's .040 thick to improve quench, you would have exactly 11.1 to 1 CR.
That should just sneak by with the cam you have but you will be snuggy on P to V. As long as you keep an eye on valve springs etc., you should be fine.
And the 220 heads would work well on both engines of course.....they have plenty of airflow to feed a hungrier larger displacement build in your future
-Tony
__________________
www.mamomotorsports.com
Tony@MamoMotorsports.com
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
www.mamomotorsports.com
Tony@MamoMotorsports.com
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
Your going to be tight on P to V when you mill the heads for additional compression which of course is smart but your current cam has a fair bit of overlap and P to V clearance is always about how much overlap you have.....not lift which is a common misnomer.
I would take them to 62 cc's.....with a proper bore gasket that's .040 thick to improve quench, you would have exactly 11.1 to 1 CR.
That should just sneak by with the cam you have but you will be snuggy on P to V. As long as you keep an eye on valve springs etc., you should be fine.
And the 220 heads would work well on both engines of course.....they have plenty of airflow to feed a hungrier larger displacement build in your future
-Tony
I would take them to 62 cc's.....with a proper bore gasket that's .040 thick to improve quench, you would have exactly 11.1 to 1 CR.
That should just sneak by with the cam you have but you will be snuggy on P to V. As long as you keep an eye on valve springs etc., you should be fine.
And the 220 heads would work well on both engines of course.....they have plenty of airflow to feed a hungrier larger displacement build in your future
-Tony
If in doubt mill to 63cc and keep the tighter quench with the 0.040" gasket. you'll still get the extra detonation resistance. You can probably make up for a little (dynamic) compression loss by advancing your cam a degree and still clear the Pistons enough if you're worried about torque and midrange. Someone with a PTV calculator could elaborate more here but it's an idea...
Otherwise run more a aggressive tune.
Jason
Otherwise run more a aggressive tune.
Jason
LS1Tech Sponsor
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 824
Likes: 568
I agree.....tighter quench and less head mill is better but just think about how many guys had the LGX3 cams with milled heads....that has at least as much overlap as the cam we are discussing. Or back of the SCR a little bit like we just discussed but any cam in that type of overlap area is always going to be snuggy with flat top (no valve relief) pistons. Get quality dual valve springs and dont ignore valve train noises which could be a broken spring and freshen them at reasonable intervals assuming you drive the car alot.
Honestly with the rest of the combo this good we aren't talking about a big difference in output at say 63 cc's and the tighter quench
-Tony
Honestly with the rest of the combo this good we aren't talking about a big difference in output at say 63 cc's and the tighter quench
-Tony
__________________
www.mamomotorsports.com
Tony@MamoMotorsports.com
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
www.mamomotorsports.com
Tony@MamoMotorsports.com
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!