I'm looking at this like the lesser of two evils. If the gasket is not going to be fully clamped, I would actually expect it to fan open a bit. Now, ignoring shrouding for a second, sharp edges absorb heat far faster than surfaces, because they can absorb from multiple directions. I have to design around this in steel making by varying cooling profiles, spray patterns, etc to not over cool or over heat the corners on a 5"x5" cross section of solid steel billet. As for sharp edges, I use heat to detect slivers, because they disproportionately absorb heat, and will glow red hot while the rest of the bar stays gray.

So, if the MLS spreads apart - or delaminates if you will, it would act like a spark plug that is too high a heat range around the entire perimeter of the combustion chamber.

So, between the major effect of the gasket edges vs the relatively minor impact of the notch, I choose the notch.

Not saying the wider gap isn't detrimental, but I am saying it is less detrimental by an order of magnitude than having a hot metal ring around the combustion chamber.

If it was a stock head, I'd have used 3.910" bore gaskets. But it isn't.

 

It's interesting when people only use a screen name with no other supporting information on the internet, they could be someone very well regarded, experienced and knowledgeable or even famous for that matter and you could never know, or they could just be a troll.

You sir could very well be the first, you can ask intelligent questions and present good arguments or points of view but with the screen name "know it all" and an air of superiority that is apparent in numerous posts that I have read, you come across like the second with an agenda to discredit certain members, or put the lesser mortals down or inflame them.

Not that Tony needs me to defend him and for full disclosure, I have spent some money for his services although very little in the scheme of things. He has been honest and reliable from the other side of the world and additionally has been more than happy to help me out personally, answer dumb questions and share his knowledge both before and after with no obligation to whatsoever.

As a businessman he would be foolish not to maximise his chances of increasing business turnover and income by advertising and posting on here, that's a given, but I'm sure he likely gives more time/help than he actually receives payment for when it’s all boiled down and no I'm not a . Believe me I have dealt with business people who give you nothing for free.

I also doubt very much he wears a tin foil hat (although he thinks that I do) and has any problem with you asking any questions, probably more likely the manner in which you backhandedly ask them like you already know better, some courtesy, respect and people skills can go a long way in life. Have a great day and I hope you've now moved on to the Sheraton from Holiday Inn Express.

Best wishes,
Jason.

 

Sounds a lot like the old stroker ace

 

Which takes me back to my original question...

It's soooooo "scary" how many shops "drop the ball on this crucial detail", I'm just questioning whether or not its being blown out of proportion.

If it were me, I'd just laugh at the concept as I put on a GM 5.7L head gasket.

 

Thanks Jason (I think ).

No agenda here. I just like to argue and debate. I like to question "authority". I could be a knowledgeable and well experienced troll, so maybe it will make for some interesting discussions...

 

Which one? Old Stroker was Papa and Stroker Ace was Junior. Talk about trolls: they wrote the book. At least Bret contributed significantly!!

 

If the hot ignition source around the perimeter limits your timing to 16 degrees, or worse detonates constantly, it would be considered pretty crucial.

Even besides that, it's a "no excuses" build. It removes .041" of intake valve shrouding for improved airflow if nothing else.

 

Hey Darth, What spark plugs are you running with this build?

I'm getting ready to order a set, and don't know what to get. I was looking at the NGK TR5IX, but wasn't sure if I should go down a heat range..

And for what it's worth, I'm running the gasket Tony tells me to run. There is no sense ordering all this high end stuff, and not following through with the builders advice.

 

I run TR6. I didn't go iridium, but only cause I didn't want to wait and AZ had the 6's in stock.

Lol on the head gasket. I just hope the thread doesn't get locked. I got dual exhaust on the way and hoping to get more done by the end of the year.

I'm thinking I've got a real shot at 500 with a moderate cam, so now I'm doubling down. Just need the wallet to recover....

 

Like Bret. If you just joined in March 2015,how you know who i was talking about?

 

Im pretty confident you will break 500. I'm doing a similar build to yours, except I didn't opt for the mamofied option on the heads. Of course, mine is going through a power robbing automatic...

I appreciate you starting this thread, it has already helped me out a lot!

 

You got this!!

 

You know there are other forums besides LS1tech...right?

 

Yes, a compliment and slap at the same time, just to keep you on your toes .

I have no problem with healthy debate and questioning authority depending on the circumstances and how you do it, if more people did I think the world would be a better place. An experienced, knowledgeable troll could certainly be a dangerous combination.


Darth, on a serious note to yourself, apologies but not trying to screw up your thread, I just wanted to call it and say a good word for Tony seeing that no one else seemed too be jumping in and I'm confident his intentions are genuine. I have taken an interest in how your build turns out especially with the new MMS heads. So far so good, I sincerely hope you can reach your goals and it all goes well, good luck, now I'll get back in my box.

Best wishes,
Jason.

 

Just read this whole thread start to end....a very informative read for sure! Thank you Darth for taking the time to document all the details.

I'm going to assume that most of the list below must be the 'Mamo Blue Pill F-body Recipe.'

I'm curious if you ever discussed what Tony's ideal cam would have been for your initial goals? I'm also a fan of the Tick SNS TorqueMaX Stg 2 cam, but I wonder what a no compromise modern 227/229 intake cam would look like.

Thanks again for sharing everything.

 

Tony's typical cam is 227/231-114+2. He and I both tend to agree on 227 being a good intake duration to blend drive ability with power production. Funny you mentioned the tick SNS2. I couldn't decide between that cam and the cam motion Titan 4. The cam I'm running is a brain child of mine and Kip Fabre. We took the valve events from those two cams because I couldn't decide between those two and averaged them.

I've been doing some soul searching recently on the cam, and I think I left some top end power on the table with the early IVC of 42.5 and late EVO of 53. However, I like the overlap at 8 degrees as I feel like it helps the motor carry past peak power. If I make those two valve event changes to 45 and 55, I get 232/236 113+4, which is almost exactly what Martin suggested in an earlier thread of mine. But I think until I get the dual exhaust on I'm better where I am. And this cam does pull hard, so I have a tough time justifying yanking it.

The only thing on my list that wasn't on Tony's was the electric steering, which I still haven't done. Also, I'm adding a Mighty Mouse catch can, which should be added to the list. I was dumb to leave one out of the build up. Can will be on three hours after it arrives on the UPS truck. Kooks duals are eminent.

 

No kidding!! I crossed Old Stroker once and it wasn't pretty at first. It turned out fine once I smoothed it over, lol.

Darth,

I tend to think bigger exhaust won't help with as much exhaust split you have with your current cam and those heads. If it were me, I'd go with a different cam first of funds and time low before bigger exhaust.

Jason.

 

What was your plan for electric steering? I looked into an mr2 kit but people wanted 400 for a used pump and that's a no go for me. I ended up just doing a turn one pump which still saves some hp.

Catch can makes a huge difference, mount yours as far from the engine as possible. Do not mount it on the head, it will catch some oil but not all. Mount it in the bumper under the headlight or somewhere similar. The longer lines and increased airflow over the can help get the oil vapor cooler and condense in the can better. I mounted a couple cans in the engine bay and still got some oil in the intake. After I mounted them in the bumper I had no more issues.

I really like the kooks system but its the same weight as my bassani TD system and I'd like to cut weight on my car where I can. I wish someone made a decent td system that didn't weigh 100 lbs lol but that's hard with good quality stainless.

 

I got the best results not using the pretty billet cans mounted to the head but by remote locating a much larger can mounted in an area ahead of the front wheel on my GTO. I made out of 4" PVC about 8" long and filled it with stainless Chore Boys. It condenses better with a much larger surface area both is size and from the mesh inside. Only cost $30 or so too and doesn't clutter up the engine bay further.

 

The MR2 is my plan. I was looking into a servo motor to just hook up to the pump but it looks like it'll cost more than just getting a MR2. Not for the motor but to make it connect.

I think I'll also end up needing a truck alternator. Electric pumps adding to the current draw.

Seems crazy, but I'll do the lighter clutch before I do the pump. I think that'll free up more power, even though it costs more, so it's the higher priority.

I don't expect to gain too much from the dual exhaust, but mine is such a cobbled together mess that I can't stand it. 3" catted Y with cats crowbarred out going into a 3" car back, rattling and rasping like crazy just isn't doing it for me. By the time I spring for new Y, merge, cat back, I'm close enough to the duals to just jump.