Straub Bushing Trunion Kits?
Exactly. If you exceed the design limitations of the stock trunnions you have to make a choice. As we have seen the aftermarket bearing upgrades have had questionable results, bushings are the new new and offer their own compromises (or not). The jury is still out on the bearing vs. bushing debate - regardless if it moves, it is a wear part. Period.
I do find humour in anyone seeking to find fault in a budget part when it fails, especially when they lay claim to enough "expertise" to quote very specific material specs, principles, and assembly tolerances. I know that if I had access to those resources I wouldn't be messing around with modified stock junk, and then get upset when it doesn't perform up to my expectations. But, that is just me.
I do find humour in anyone seeking to find fault in a budget part when it fails, especially when they lay claim to enough "expertise" to quote very specific material specs, principles, and assembly tolerances. I know that if I had access to those resources I wouldn't be messing around with modified stock junk, and then get upset when it doesn't perform up to my expectations. But, that is just me.
I've not slammed or bashed anyone to my knowledge, rather provided results from my particular application findings.
You finding humor in my available resources seems a bit unwarranted.
Right now it appears that my particular situation is 100% failure rate given the two sets of bushed stock rockers I've seen personally.
As far as stating material, processes, tolerances.....well that's what I do in my professional career.
Budget had nothing to do with my decision to try the said product. It was based around if the product works and is reliable it will fit my application intent. Which is one of many toy's that may or may not be driven once per month.
Keep in mind the damage may occur to my engine that will not cost you or any other member, I've posted solely as a precautionary to others in which the primary intent was to help.
I'm glad you found some humor in my posts vs. using them for consumer product improvements which are obviously transparent.
Exactly. If you exceed the design limitations of the stock trunnions you have to make a choice. As we have seen the aftermarket bearing upgrades have had questionable results, bushings are the new new and offer their own compromises (or not). The jury is still out on the bearing vs. bushing debate - regardless if it moves, it is a wear part. Period.
I do find humour in anyone seeking to find fault in a budget part when it fails, especially when they lay claim to enough "expertise" to quote very specific material specs, principles, and assembly tolerances. I know that if I had access to those resources I wouldn't be messing around with modified stock junk, and then get upset when it doesn't perform up to my expectations. But, that is just me.
I do find humour in anyone seeking to find fault in a budget part when it fails, especially when they lay claim to enough "expertise" to quote very specific material specs, principles, and assembly tolerances. I know that if I had access to those resources I wouldn't be messing around with modified stock junk, and then get upset when it doesn't perform up to my expectations. But, that is just me.
Yes, it is just you.
Just in case anyone wanted to question my questioning........as Paul Harvey would state "And the Rest of the Story"
About 2 months ago as posted many pages back in the thread. My assembly process was followed according vast understanding of measurments, tolerance stack up, proper lubrication, and the instructions provided in the bushing kit.
After startup a very loud squealing was present, which diminished after 20-30 seconds of runtime.
The supplier/manufacture was made aware and at which time contacted me with question of the sub-assembly of my rockers. We agreed the supplier would supply me with a pre-assembled replacement set of rockers in return I would send my rocker's (Assembled by me) back for evaluation. Both parties agreed.
Two days later I received the preassembled rocker assemblies nicely packaged. Initial evaluation of the product revealed lots of material debris around the bushing and snap ring area.
The ultimate decision was made on my end to return the product, with my quality concerns to the supplier allowing them to complete their diligence in determining root cause in efforts to make the product better.
Here are photos of the new supplier assembled rocker assemblies sent to me for replacement.
Make your own determinations from this point forward.
Let me clarify. This set was never ran.
This is the replacement set sent from the manufacture to replace the set in my first set of pictures.
Last edited by brobinson216; Jul 19, 2016 at 01:25 PM. Reason: Added punctuation as I'm typing from phone.
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In the sets I have assembled, I've always seen flecks of bronze around the edges. I keep my air nozzle hanging off the side of the press for this very reason..just shoot it off with air, dab a little oil in the channels, spin it around, and snap the rings on.
I didn't consider this a big deal since I was pressing a soft metal into a hard metal. Figured it was going to happen a bit. Hope I didn't just out myself in some way if that's not supposed to happen..but I'm here to learn just like everyone else.
I didn't consider this a big deal since I was pressing a soft metal into a hard metal. Figured it was going to happen a bit. Hope I didn't just out myself in some way if that's not supposed to happen..but I'm here to learn just like everyone else.
i find it hard to believe this product is defective , while i feel everyones opinion matters i would hope posters are being fair about how the wear & tear happened. could any mods way in on whether this is a good product? thx
The first pictures you posted had dry start damage, I suspect they did the squealing. I was just curious how many seconds it ran before the squealing started.
Kurt
Kurt
Please re-read my last post with the pictures attached.
There was never a dry startup on the first set of pictures I posted. They failed due to interference on the trunion.
I'm not interested in the replacement rockers you did not run, just the ones that are galled that you did run. The galling is a sign of dry running, in extreme cases you hear squealing when it happens. If it happens on start up of new install it could be lack of oil on install or clearance so tight the oil has no room
If it's clearance the galling will happen a full 360 degrees in the bushing as the clearance is tight everywhere. If it's lack of oil it will normally happen on the load side and start creeping up both sides towards the non loaded side. The pics look like lack of oil rather than clearance unless it was very close on tolerance and heat got it. If it was heat the squealing should have started 3-5 minutes after start up as the parts started swelling. If it was clearance or dry start the squealing should start in under 1 minute.
Kurt
If it's clearance the galling will happen a full 360 degrees in the bushing as the clearance is tight everywhere. If it's lack of oil it will normally happen on the load side and start creeping up both sides towards the non loaded side. The pics look like lack of oil rather than clearance unless it was very close on tolerance and heat got it. If it was heat the squealing should have started 3-5 minutes after start up as the parts started swelling. If it was clearance or dry start the squealing should start in under 1 minute.
Kurt
I'm not interested in the replacement rockers you did not run, just the ones that are galled that you did run. The galling is a sign of dry running, in extreme cases you hear squealing when it happens. If it happens on start up of new install it could be lack of oil on install or clearance so tight the oil has no room
If it's clearance the galling will happen a full 360 degrees in the bushing as the clearance is tight everywhere. If it's lack of oil it will normally happen on the load side and start creeping up both sides towards the non loaded side. The pics look like lack of oil rather than clearance unless it was very close on tolerance and heat got it. If it was heat the squealing should have started 3-5 minutes after start up as the parts started swelling. If it was clearance or dry start the squealing should start in under 1 minute.
Kurt
If it's clearance the galling will happen a full 360 degrees in the bushing as the clearance is tight everywhere. If it's lack of oil it will normally happen on the load side and start creeping up both sides towards the non loaded side. The pics look like lack of oil rather than clearance unless it was very close on tolerance and heat got it. If it was heat the squealing should have started 3-5 minutes after start up as the parts started swelling. If it was clearance or dry start the squealing should start in under 1 minute.
Kurt
The squealing was a results of the particulates that were trapped between the trunion OD and bushing ID.
These particulates were caused during press by a sharp edge on the snapping groove. They were trapped in the oil flat and non visible, nor did they present interference during my hand spin test.
Once the engine was started and oil began to flow into the trunion flats, it forced these particulates out which rolled under to the bottom cutting gouges into the bushing ID.
I'm not interested in the replacement rockers you did not run, just the ones that are galled that you did run. The galling is a sign of dry running, in extreme cases you hear squealing when it happens. If it happens on start up of new install it could be lack of oil on install or clearance so tight the oil has no room
If it's clearance the galling will happen a full 360 degrees in the bushing as the clearance is tight everywhere. If it's lack of oil it will normally happen on the load side and start creeping up both sides towards the non loaded side. The pics look like lack of oil rather than clearance unless it was very close on tolerance and heat got it. If it was heat the squealing should have started 3-5 minutes after start up as the parts started swelling. If it was clearance or dry start the squealing should start in under 1 minute.
Kurt
If it's clearance the galling will happen a full 360 degrees in the bushing as the clearance is tight everywhere. If it's lack of oil it will normally happen on the load side and start creeping up both sides towards the non loaded side. The pics look like lack of oil rather than clearance unless it was very close on tolerance and heat got it. If it was heat the squealing should have started 3-5 minutes after start up as the parts started swelling. If it was clearance or dry start the squealing should start in under 1 minute.
Kurt
I'm interested in the parts he ran that had problems because I have these components running in engines and first hand knowledge speeds up this early testing stage. The parts he did not run would only be interesting if the person that ran them had any info.
I would not recommend anything I have not personally ran to any shops, but I like first hand info especially with pictures. When somebody like BR is willing to answer questions it makes the flow of info much faster. The pictures give some good info.
Kurt
I would not recommend anything I have not personally ran to any shops, but I like first hand info especially with pictures. When somebody like BR is willing to answer questions it makes the flow of info much faster. The pictures give some good info.
Kurt
Why would you not be interested in the rockers that were not installed. You should be. I am. They look like crap. I've recommended shops around here to use these based on this thread and Straub's reputation. Kind of hard to blame the second set on user error or improper installation buy the customer. I'm really waiting for Chris Straub to address this here.
Interesting theory. How long did the engine run before the squeal was audible?
Kurt
Kurt
Again this was not a clearance issue.
The squealing was a results of the particulates that were trapped between the trunion OD and bushing ID.
These particulates were caused during press by a sharp edge on the snapping groove. They were trapped in the oil flat and non visible, nor did they present interference during my hand spin test.
Once the engine was started and oil began to flow into the trunion flats, it forced these particulates out which rolled under to the bottom cutting gouges into the bushing ID.
The squealing was a results of the particulates that were trapped between the trunion OD and bushing ID.
These particulates were caused during press by a sharp edge on the snapping groove. They were trapped in the oil flat and non visible, nor did they present interference during my hand spin test.
Once the engine was started and oil began to flow into the trunion flats, it forced these particulates out which rolled under to the bottom cutting gouges into the bushing ID.
Remember both components were soaked in a zddp bath prior to press. We both know the characteristics of zddp and what it does.
It creates a risidual film that stays on the surface for extended periods of time.
I'm confident the ID shaved when sliding over the snap ring groove, trapped the particles. once the oil began to flow it loosened those pieces. The squealing was a result of those pieces digging into the bushing.
Haven't had time to measure these yet, my vision system will not lie and will magnify 690x. It will provide the best photos of the damaged areas.