jjdreiling92

Hello,
I am new at the forum stuff but ill cut to the chase. I have a 5.3 that I am turboing and have been told to put an ls9 cam and valve springs in. I am aware of all that but what I am not sure on is what push rods to put in. any help would be great, thanks.

svslow

Don't waste your time with that cam, it will make it a total dog down low.

jjdreiling92

Really? I have been told by a lot of people and when I mean a lot like 10 people that has said to run that cam. Its a budget build is what I am trying to do.

svslow

Which ecu are you using?

ls1charged

iTrader: (8)

LS9 is a waste, and i believe after you do the conversion to run that cam(its a single bolt cam), your at the same cost of a custom cam dedicated to your setup that will outperform the LS9 all day

SLOW SEDAN

iTrader: (13)

LS9 cam isn't single bolt.


I've taken a few LS9 cams out for people and installed a proper spec'd aftermarket cam and so far all of them have been shocked how much difference it made. If you really don't have the extra money for a cam and the LS9 is laying around then I guess its worth it. Speaking of which I have a few LS9 cams laying around... $40 used or $75 for a new one.

But either way I wouldn't run LS9 springs with a turbo, at least if you plan to run any decent boost. Spend some money there and upgrade a bit.

svslow

I had an LS9 cam in a 5.3 and switched to the Trick Flow 216/220 and it was a night a day difference even with such a mild cam. The Trick Flow was better everywhere.

ls1charged

iTrader: (8)

your right, i forgot thats one thing they actually did right lol

still woudnt run it though

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

I don’t agree 100%.

Sure there are cams that will perform much better at low RPM. But they aren’t $100 new. The LS9 cam performs as well as the stock cam below 4500 or so and really wakes the combo up from 5k on. Seems like most don’t match up a loose enough stall, or rev their setups high enough to really utilize the LS9 cam. With a loose stall revving the motor to 7200+ I think it performs really well. If this cam is setup with the correct supporting parts, I doubt there’s anything else out there (for the price) that will perform as well.

I used PAC1218 springs with mine and ran 26lbs on a wheezy 8.6:1 gen3 5.3. Ran low 9’s all year and dipped into the 8’s before blowing the motor. (which I think was a timing chain issue) I think the reason the setup lived so long is because the cam limited power around peak torque. I also could make 26lbs on the T-brake... fast. So the lack of “low end power” everyone whines about wasn’t an issue on my setup.

As for the price a timing cover and sensor is $36 at autozone. It really wasn’t hard to extend my harness to the fwd cover to run the LS9 cam. If you can get one for $40 used above. That’s under $80 for a cam capable of 1000whp on a 5.3 that’s setup correctly. It also idles like glass with tons of manifold pressure.

JoeNova

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/ls-cam-test-comparison/

Nice gains up top, carries farther than the stock cam so gains at the limiter look big.
It will lose torque.

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

Wish they supplied actual dyno sheets in that article. The LS9 should pull past 6200 on a 5.3 easy. It peaks at 6500 on an LS9 and is very common to take it to 7k on the shifts with an LS9 engine. Turbo will push the peak HP RPM up as well.

Knowing what I know now I would have revved it much higher. That was 5 years ago when everyone thought the rod bolts would fall out and you couldn’t rev over 6000 rpm.

I took mine to 5600 initially and every time I raised the shift point it gained huge. At the end it picked up like 2mph at the 1/8th at the same boost level going from 5800 to 6800 on the shift. Then it would bog down and go thru the traps around 5800 at 153ish. I think that setup with a 3.70-3.90 gear shifting at 7k would have picked up an easy 2-3mph and went 8.70’s or so.

CAMMOTION PERF

Yes sir it will.

Here are a couple clips from a very interesting HotRod article where they compared all of factory LS cams in the same 5.3 on the dyno.

While the LS9 camshaft does make very good power up top, it is very weak down low. It lost over 40 ft pounds of torque at 2500 RPM. Check these graphics from the article out:



http://www.hotrod.com/articles/ls-cam-test-comparison/


The last 3 cams listed are aftermarket performance camshaft. Check out how the 224 outperforms the LS9 camshaft everywhere. It has 14 to 18 more foot pounds of torque from 2500-4500 and still has 18 more horsepower at 6500 RPM. I know the appeal of cheap, but that is a great improvement in usable power throughout the entire RPM range.

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

That illustrates my point exactly. You are paying how much more to run that 224 based cam?

Figure:
$370-425 for the cam
$229-350 for some drop in dual springs.
$120 push rods.
$100-200(plus new lifters for most?)

So $719-1000+ for an additional 14-18 HP across the board? That’s crap when you look at from $ spent VS HP gained point of view.

Truth is you can only make so much power early in the rev range without bending rods on a SBE budget engine anyway. With a properly setup turbo system you can easily meet and exceed that number with an LS9 cam. Could even use $60 shimmed LS6 springs. So why would a budget minded racer blow $700-1000 on a cam that gives you less additional power across the board than 1 additional lb of boost would? Turbos already there and it’s free to turn up.

I’m not saying the Ls9 is the be all end all camshaft. But they are a great budget cam IMO and can work well enough to max out most mild SBE turbo builds easily. Low end power is not a concern when you have a stalled auto making boost on the starting line. In fact we do all we can to limit low end power with turbo LS builds these days. Boost by speed, slow timing ramps, traction control etc…

If you can make more power than the block and rotating assy can handle with a $40 used cam and some $60 shimmed valve springs… why spend $700-1000 upgrading the valve train to get to the same point at less boost?

This is all assuming a turbo SBE ls, auto trans, and drag race oriented “budget” build.

CAMMOTION PERF

Customers that switched from the LS9 to a mild performance aftermarket camshaft on their turbo build said that the Cam Motion turbo cam has notably less turbo lag, the car spools and drives much better than the LS9 camshaft. One even said they had a 40 hp improvement on a turbo car with our 220/224 on 114 camshaft and it drove much better.

CAMMOTION PERF

Our camshaft is $399 for a 5150 steel alloy LS camshaft
Our PAC 1218 Beehive springs are $168 or our Dual .650" spring kit is $199
Pushrods $115. But, if you are going to spin 6500 RPM, I would put a set of pushrods in with either camshaft.
New GM Lifters" $134. But, if they need replaced, it does not matter which camshaft that you use.

With your LS9 camshaft, they run about $150?. You are going to have to buy some GM performance springs at minimum for $71. So, all things being equal, I would say the price difference is really closer to about $375 dollars.

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

Under what circumstances and boost levels? What RPM? What engine part combination? Without a ton of details and back to back comparisons… it’s not a decent comparison.

The point is if someone has a ET or HP goal and can reach that goal without blowing $1000 on the valve train, it makes more sense to do so. It can easily be done with more boost and cam the doesn’t perform as well. 2 lbs of boost will pick up 40+hp and assuming you planned the part combo correctly.

I wouldn’t suggest the LS9 cam for a manual trans street car. And I totally agree your cam would perform much better in a like boost situation. I’m looking at the end goal.


Under what circumstances and boost levels? What RPM? What engine part combination? Without a ton of details and back to back comparisons… it’s not a decent comparison.

The point is if someone has a ET or HP goal and can reach that goal without blowing $1000 on the valve train, it makes more sense to do so. It can easily be done with more boost and cam the doesn’t perform as well. 2 lbs of boost will pick up 40+hp and assuming you planned the part combo correctly.

I wouldn’t suggest the LS9 cam for a manual trans street car. And I totally agree your cam would perform much better in a like boost situation. I’m looking at the end goal.

Let’s not forget shipping and handling on all the aftermarket stuff.

LS9 cam is $109 shipped new on ebay now. And as mentioned above he is willing to sell a new one for $75 and a used one for $40. I paid $60 shipped for my Ls6 spring kit.

So technically we are talking around $100 for springs and a cam. Which I ran on stock push rods at 26lbs. I also ran mine in batch fire off the crank sensor only so I didn’t even need the front cover. Later on I added it and went sequential. Also I’d gamble and reuse the factory lifters with a $40 cam SBE build.

SLOW SEDAN

iTrader: (13)

Well first off most people don't want to sound stock. That's the #1 request I get is sound, I know its dumb but people want a cam they can hear. So for that reason alone its worth the cost to some/most people.

Second, hopefully you aren't paying those prices! If you shop around you can get a cam, springs, and pushrods kit for under $700, under $650 in some places. Cost is less then $600 if you know someone.

I've used multiple cams in a 5.3 with 150k mile truck lifters and they worked perfectly fine but normally for other people I would certainly replace them. Still not a big expense. But if you aren't doing your own labor then its gonna cost them anyways whether its an LS9 cam or not. I've seen places sell an LS9 cam for $300 then tack labor on top, crazy!

So what if your turbo is maxed out and you have an LS9 cam but want to more power. Do you think it makes sense then? I think that larger cam will make even more power the higher you rev it. At 6500 the LS9 is 18hp down compared to a smaller aftermarket cam, what's to say at 7000 its not 30hp down and at 7500 50hp down? And I've seen the LS9 cam be 60+hp down compared to a larger aftermarket cam at 7,200RPM. I went from a LS9 to a 235/242 and picked up silly power as the LS9 fell off pretty hard above 6500. The aftermarket cam got into boost faster as well so really was a win win for a street car.

Plus not everyone has an automatic drag car or even a lightweight car for that matter and need any gain in bottom end they can get.

CAMMOTION PERF

You say $1000. My math says $375. Regardless, I understand for sure that some people have a very tight budget. I say do what you have to do. I just like to know exactly what you are giving up when you do.

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

This is coming off wrong. I'm not saying a "better" cam is a waste of money. Or hounding on aftermarket cam companies. I appreciate them very much and I run aftermarket cams in my "real builds". (or even my JY builds at times)

I'm saying $1000 worth of valvetrain parts aren't not necessary to max out most JY setups. The LS9 cam will suit most goals easily if the appropriate parts are installed with it. If you install a wimpy turbo that can't make enough boost to meet your goals...of course a better cam will help.

My mentality is if I spend the money on a "good cam" i'm going to install the good parts along with it to ensure it's healthy. If I build a JY "budget" setup I'll buy a used $40 cam with some $60 springs and run all the factory parts. My $220 JY engine doesn't deserve $1000 worth of valvetrain parts is the point I'm going for.

As far as price goes...

If I add up a cam/springs/pushrods/ lifters on Cam Motions website I get $989.95 shipped. Pretty close to $1000, no?

Lets also throw out that most suggest trunnion kit ($140+) upgrades as well. Which would easily take the valvetrain parts over $1000.

Of course not everyone has to pay those prices, it's just an example.

slogo

Hello, welcome to LS1tech, you are not allowed to think for yourself here,
you must listen to all of our opinions, and then you have to listen to where
to buy your cam from. How dare you ask what push rods to use.