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jp billet timing set caused engine damage

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Old 06-16-2017, 06:45 PM   #1
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Default jp billet timing set caused engine damage

All new 6.0 build with 3 heat cycles.changed oil to find metal in filter. Pulled pan and bearing caps to find scratches from contamination. Pulled t chain set and found that the center portion on the back side of the cam gear is taller than the torrington bearing, and had ground a groove into the cam block plate.

The Company I bought the set, and all of the parts from pulled another set off the shelf, and it Has the same faulty spec, but seem to think that this wasn't the root cause for contamination.
Has anyone else seen this ?
Opinions please...
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jp billet timing set caused engine damage-screenshot_2017-06-16-18-40-05.png   jp billet timing set caused engine damage-screenshot_2017-06-16-18-40-26.png   jp billet timing set caused engine damage-screenshot_2017-06-16-18-40-45.png   jp billet timing set caused engine damage-screenshot_2017-06-16-18-41-03.png   jp billet timing set caused engine damage-screenshot_2017-06-16-18-41-18.png  

jp billet timing set caused engine damage-screenshot_2017-06-16-18-41-35.png  
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Old 06-16-2017, 07:03 PM   #2
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Was the torrington installed upside down?
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Old 06-16-2017, 10:49 PM   #3
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No. Just to low.
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Old 06-17-2017, 08:01 AM   #4
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that sucks
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Old 06-17-2017, 09:20 AM   #5
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Surely I not the only one this has happened to ?
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Old 06-17-2017, 10:26 AM   #6
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I have the same timing set with less than a few thousand miles on it, so I'm subscribing.. how long ago was the purchase? I will change my oil soon and see what I find..
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Old 06-17-2017, 11:23 AM   #7
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Default China Items ?

Hi, sorry for your bad news though a good report.
This IS the type of problem COMMON to China Made ITEMS.

I would like you to ask the VENDOR how this could be ?

THERE IS NO NEED for a Trust Bearing on a Roller Cam with NO Distributor Gear.

Lance
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Old 06-17-2017, 12:20 PM   #8
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The pic was 2 days ago.
The seller is getting with the vendor asap.
The shitty part is the extremely reputable well known seller is only going to refund the cost of the defective gear set, and sell me everything else I need to replace at their cost. Feels like a punch in the gut.
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Old 06-17-2017, 12:31 PM   #9
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Lets get some things straight Lance.
You are pretty much the only sponsor on here that has recommended on numerous builds to use cheap chinese parts and then try to justify them. Period
Second, Jp Perf/n motion/slp/comp cams are all the same sets and are made in Australia by Rollmaster. They use a gm torrington bearing just like cloyes does in their aftermarket sets. They also use iwis chains.. The jp perf uses the iwis equivalent of the ls2 chain and the rollmaster uses the hd heat treated iwis chain that is as strong as the c5r but cheaper. Many MANY companies use torrington bearings between the cam gear and block/thrust plate. It sets up the space correctly and keeps the friction between the back of the gear and the thrus plate to a min and also keeps the cam from walking back and forth like a stock set would.

I just checked a brand new single row jp set i have to go on a 427ci ls and it is fine. You do have to install the bearing with the small side toward the engine so the "cage side" that overlaps both outside circumference and inside is toward the back of the gear. That is how it is supposed to work.
These bearings are used all the time inside auto trans.

The reason they may have said its not the reason for failure is due to that oil being filtered before it gets to the main bearings.
From the pickup it goes to the pump, then down the galley and splits between the barbell restrictor and the oil filter then Ts back together after and feeds the cam bore first then goes down to the main bearings. The LSX (and ls7 and ls9 iirc) use a different path and oil gallery system which is calld priority main oiling meaning it then splits off and feeds the cam tunnel and main bearings at the same time.
The other issue is those particles would be so fine normally they wouldnt make that much of an issue.
Have you seen the wear the stock cam plate takes on both front and rear from a high mileage ls?

Im not saying that wear you have is normal, it obviously is not, but it is likely not what caused your issues like the other shop said.
A small amount of material is normal, but the wear on your bearings is not.
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Old 06-17-2017, 01:02 PM   #10
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I'm not sure who this Lance is your referring to ?
All I know is the information I have already posted, and just wanted to see if this is a common problem , and looking for answers to my delima.
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Old 06-17-2017, 01:05 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Portworks View Post
I'm not sure who this Lance is your referring to ?
All I know is the information I have already posted, and just wanted to see if this is a common problem , and looking for answers to my delima.
Lance from pantera efi like 2 posts above mine he was trying to say jp perf was cheap chinese when indeed it is not and also to say you dont need a torrington bearing on a timing set.

I know what you posted were your findings, and i tried to explain what the other shop may have been talking about as well as the info from a jp perf single row set i have on my desk at the moment.
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Old 06-17-2017, 01:34 PM   #12
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I don't think it's a common problem. I've installed them on hundreds of engines and even have one on each of my two personal engines. I've never seen the problem you're having happen unless the torrington bearing wasn't even installed in the first place.
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Old 06-17-2017, 01:48 PM   #13
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Maybe they had a faulty batch, or mine + the one on the shelf are the only ones.
It came with the bearing installed.
Does anyone have any experience on the correct way to vat and clean the Block etc,Plus disassembling and cleaning the Morel lifters and comp trunions ?
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Old 06-18-2017, 07:40 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Portworks View Post
Maybe they had a faulty batch, or mine + the one on the shelf are the only ones.
It came with the bearing installed.
Does anyone have any experience on the correct way to vat and clean the Block etc,Plus disassembling and cleaning the Morel lifters and comp trunions ?
You can send the lifters back to Morel. I had mine done for another issue several years ago, they come back like new. It's not free, but at least you will know they are done correctly.
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Old 06-18-2017, 11:42 AM   #15
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Default Pantera EFI + 1975 OR 40 + years

Hi All, I have been in business for 40 years, before that time I worked for HMS on Signal Hill, the FORD R&D ARM.

I HAVE NEVER STATED TO USE INFERIOR ITEMS
I HAVE NEVER STATED A POOR COMMENT ABOUT THE WS6 STORE
I AM AWARE OF ROMAC ITEMS FINDING GOOD QUALITY IN THE PAST

WHAT I STATED IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM YOUR REPORT ABOUT MY COMMENT : I STATED "A China style mistake ?" AND for the to VENDOR "Request the PROVIDER."

This is FAIR and would be a GOOD REPORT for LS-1 Tech Members.

AS for YOUR REPORT about the fine particle metal in the bearings :

YOUR REPORT about the METAL FOUND = NORMAL ???

NOT A TRUE STATEMENT, how long have you been is business (2004?) as your site states ?

I have inspected MANY BAJA Race Engines with a bearing report as in NEW condition after a season of racing.

COULD there be a COMP Trunion problem ?

Lance
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Old 06-18-2017, 12:49 PM   #16
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Quite a few threads esp on turbo builds where you recommend "chinese head studs".
That is exactly what i am talking about.
After seeing your posts, your pedigree means little.
I really dont like talking bad about another vendor but your statements are so off in left field they arent in the US.
Romac has made quality for a VERY long time and not just with timing sets.
If you knew so much youd know JPP isnt chinese and that torrington bearings are used in nearly every aftermarket ls timing set not just from rollmaster and that they use IWIS chains.

Im done with my soap box and I apologize to the thread and the OP but when bad advice like this comes up so often its got to be taken care of.
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Old 06-18-2017, 04:56 PM   #17
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Thanks for all of the advice. I have inspected everything, trunions, lifters, oil pump etc. The only thing that I can find is the back of the cam gear contact due to the torrington is below the surface.
I guess I should have checked this, and will definitely in the future.
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Old 06-18-2017, 05:51 PM   #18
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This sucks, I had already Torqued mine down but after reading I had to check, same gear.
Fortunately Mine looks ok, took a picture just for comparison sake, hope you get everything
squared away.
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Old 06-18-2017, 05:53 PM   #19
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what doesn't make sense to me is, if this is truly an issue where the gear is grinding the retainer plate, why doesn't this happen on every ls motor? when I took apart my 170k mile ls1 there was barely a wear mark on the retainer plate, let alone missing material and there was no thrust bearing from the factory.
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Old 06-18-2017, 06:03 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappySalesman View Post
what doesn't make sense to me is, if this is truly an issue where the gear is grinding the retainer plate, why doesn't this happen on every ls motor? when I took apart my 170k mile ls1 there was barely a wear mark on the retainer plate, let alone missing material and there was no thrust bearing from the factory.
Looks like his could be an isolated case, where his bearing looks to be pressed
on too far, or the gear was not machined correctly, I have the same brand of
gear and looks like mine does not have the same issue.
This is an aftermarket gear
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