Help me build a 370. Please!
#1
Help me build a 370. Please!
Hey guys. Getting ready to take a 6.0 block to machine shop. Going with a forged piston/rod combo using the stock crank. I think I am sticking with the 317 heads because of the budget I am on. So my issues are related to piston choices and head gaskets. With a zero deck and 030 compressed gaskets I can achieve between 10.5 to over 11 to 1 compression with a small dome piston.
I have no idea what the actual deck height is now (stock)
does anyone know how far down, if at all, the stock pistons are below deck?
I want this to be a strong street engine. Torque is what I need. Not worried about horsepower at 6500. More interested in highest average trq between 2500 to 4500.
BTR recommended a NA Ls stage 1 or 2 cam
LS1/2 Stage II Cam 227/234 .614"/.576" 113+2
or
LS1/2 Stage I Cam 223/230 .610"/.573" 115+2
so I want opinions about rods, pistons, and cam selection.
before anyone chimes in I know I don't need forged rods or pistons but that is what I want for reasons that would take to long to get into here.
tell me I'm over thinking this or tell me I'm crazy. Just tell me something!
I have no idea what the actual deck height is now (stock)
does anyone know how far down, if at all, the stock pistons are below deck?
I want this to be a strong street engine. Torque is what I need. Not worried about horsepower at 6500. More interested in highest average trq between 2500 to 4500.
BTR recommended a NA Ls stage 1 or 2 cam
LS1/2 Stage II Cam 227/234 .614"/.576" 113+2
or
LS1/2 Stage I Cam 223/230 .610"/.573" 115+2
so I want opinions about rods, pistons, and cam selection.
before anyone chimes in I know I don't need forged rods or pistons but that is what I want for reasons that would take to long to get into here.
tell me I'm over thinking this or tell me I'm crazy. Just tell me something!
#2
TECH Senior Member
Please explain why you think you need a forged setup, because from the above list of parts and you saying no need to go above 6500, you do NOT need a forged bottom end. Save a ***** of money and use a stock crank, rods, and pistons, which are all much stronger than you think.
I think you ARE overthinking this. Save some money.
I think you ARE overthinking this. Save some money.
#3
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (1)
I would t do some pistons either. Flat tops and get your quench right.
And on a side note, I have a ls1 stage 2 btr 227/234 cam I put up for sale. It has less than 4000 Miles on it. You can save yourself some money that way. I wouldn’t go with a stage 1 at that size of an engine.
And on a side note, I have a ls1 stage 2 btr 227/234 cam I put up for sale. It has less than 4000 Miles on it. You can save yourself some money that way. I wouldn’t go with a stage 1 at that size of an engine.
#4
Please explain why you think you need a forged setup, because from the above list of parts and you saying no need to go above 6500, you do NOT need a forged bottom end. Save a ***** of money and use a stock crank, rods, and pistons, which are all much stronger than you think.
I think you ARE overthinking this. Save some money.
I think you ARE overthinking this. Save some money.
#5
I would t do some pistons either. Flat tops and get your quench right.
And on a side note, I have a ls1 stage 2 btr 227/234 cam I put up for sale. It has less than 4000 Miles on it. You can save yourself some money that way. I wouldn’t go with a stage 1 at that size of an engine.
And on a side note, I have a ls1 stage 2 btr 227/234 cam I put up for sale. It has less than 4000 Miles on it. You can save yourself some money that way. I wouldn’t go with a stage 1 at that size of an engine.
#6
TECH Senior Member
Even with the Procharger, what is your target horsepower?
#7
ModSquad
iTrader: (6)
Don’t order head gaskets until you choose whatever piston/rod combo your going to use, and it’s mocked up in the engine. You must know where your piston is at...above or below deck height...before you order headgaskets. This dimension will vary, depending on what you choose.
Concerning the forged setup...it’s much easier to find piston selection with a 6.125” rod, than a stock rod, so I would go with forged stuff also. Not much available for 6.098” rods.
Concerning the forged setup...it’s much easier to find piston selection with a 6.125” rod, than a stock rod, so I would go with forged stuff also. Not much available for 6.098” rods.
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#8
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (1)
I’m putting a turbo on the car right now and I have the timing cover off the engine waiting on more parts. I wanted a sleeper so here’s my chance to put a smaller cam while it’s apart. Honestly I’m on the fence about it because I’m afraid I’ll lose power and the car won’t sound as good. I want it to idle almost as low as stock, this cam idles at 725-750 in a 5.7. Would be under that in a bigger motor. If I don’t sell it, my feelings won’t be hurt to be honest but with a turbo I really don’t need this big (it’s really not that big either) of a cam. It’s pretty torquey in my 5.7 and in a 6.0 or bigger I bet it would be a hoot to drive.
#10
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (1)
My theory is this. If you have a purpose built drag machine and everything is tailored to a specific rpm range, then maybe a tighter lobe separation will be faster. But, if you have a car you enjoy driving around, you care if it spits raw fuel out at idle and stinks, gets very poor fuel mileage and idle real rough, well a wider lobe separation is what you want. I relate this to the old belief that exhaust back pressure is good and small tube headers build more tq. Which we all know was a sham. But hey, what do I know?
#11
Restricted User
LSA camshaft test.
Blue is 108 LSA, Red is 112 LSA, Green is 120 LSA.
Lobes between the 3 cams are 100% identical. The only difference is lobe separation.
Narrow LSA camshafts also tend to have more part throttle torque for cruising/towing (to an extent). When you start increasing overlap too much, you lose cylinder pressure.
Howard's has a small (off the top of my head) 210/214 .600/.600 108 LSA that has been shown to provide excellent low end torque and part throttle towing torque (and throttle response) while keeping decent idle quality for such a low LSA camshaft. I've been oddly fascinated with attempting a 'Truck cam' shootout after seeing results of this particular cam.
Blue is 108 LSA, Red is 112 LSA, Green is 120 LSA.
Lobes between the 3 cams are 100% identical. The only difference is lobe separation.
Narrow LSA camshafts also tend to have more part throttle torque for cruising/towing (to an extent). When you start increasing overlap too much, you lose cylinder pressure.
Howard's has a small (off the top of my head) 210/214 .600/.600 108 LSA that has been shown to provide excellent low end torque and part throttle towing torque (and throttle response) while keeping decent idle quality for such a low LSA camshaft. I've been oddly fascinated with attempting a 'Truck cam' shootout after seeing results of this particular cam.
#12
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (1)
I’ve seen that test before but that doesn’t change my mind. I’m not so sure that every cam profile will respond the same way that particular one did in that test. Plus the peripherals (compression, heads, intake, etc) May be tailored more towards the tighter lobe seperation.
#13
Don’t order head gaskets until you choose whatever piston/rod combo your going to use, and it’s mocked up in the engine. You must know where your piston is at...above or below deck height...before you order headgaskets. This dimension will vary, depending on what you choose.
Concerning the forged setup...it’s much easier to find piston selection with a 6.125” rod, than a stock rod, so I would go with forged stuff also. Not much available for 6.098” rods.
Concerning the forged setup...it’s much easier to find piston selection with a 6.125” rod, than a stock rod, so I would go with forged stuff also. Not much available for 6.098” rods.
#14
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (40)
LSA camshaft test.
Blue is 108 LSA, Red is 112 LSA, Green is 120 LSA.
Lobes between the 3 cams are 100% identical. The only difference is lobe separation.
Narrow LSA camshafts also tend to have more part throttle torque for cruising/towing (to an extent). When you start increasing overlap too much, you lose cylinder pressure.
Howard's has a small (off the top of my head) 210/214 .600/.600 108 LSA that has been shown to provide excellent low end torque and part throttle towing torque (and throttle response) while keeping decent idle quality for such a low LSA camshaft. I've been oddly fascinated with attempting a 'Truck cam' shootout after seeing results of this particular cam.
Blue is 108 LSA, Red is 112 LSA, Green is 120 LSA.
Lobes between the 3 cams are 100% identical. The only difference is lobe separation.
Narrow LSA camshafts also tend to have more part throttle torque for cruising/towing (to an extent). When you start increasing overlap too much, you lose cylinder pressure.
Howard's has a small (off the top of my head) 210/214 .600/.600 108 LSA that has been shown to provide excellent low end torque and part throttle towing torque (and throttle response) while keeping decent idle quality for such a low LSA camshaft. I've been oddly fascinated with attempting a 'Truck cam' shootout after seeing results of this particular cam.
Where is that chart from? Would love to read more on that test.
I hear ya on that truck cam fascination, if you need a vote to do the test, please do it!
#16
Restricted User
#19
Moderator
iTrader: (20)
I’ve seen that test before but that doesn’t change my mind. I’m not so sure that every cam profile will respond the same way that particular one did in that test. Plus the peripherals (compression, heads, intake, etc) May be tailored more towards the tighter lobe seperation.
#20
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (1)
To the op, my buddy has a stage 3 tooley cam in his 6 liter gto. It’s pretty rowdy and it’s very loud. I’ve got video of it. He has like 6 mufflers on it too lol. He had to go to a 3800 stall vs his 3200 because it actually slowed down at the track. It also idles at 950. The funny thing is since he put it in he hardly drives the car anymore, just something I noticed. The cam he had before was a 220/220 Texas speed. Once he changed the stall it it I think he picked up a tenth and almost 2 mph over the smaller cam. He was disappointed. So as you know, bigger ain’t always better especially if everything isn’t matched.